Jiminy Cricket...perfect for EarsOpen...

LOL

And I'm hearing crickets everywhere right now...night and day. That way, I can think of you...have you as my conscience.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know you don't feel safe speaking with H about his point of view, his stuff on DD's weight...can you share yours? Can you share your fears (an eating disorder resulting either way from pressure and stress you feel coming from within the family); your deep desire to empower her through her own choices...whatever it is you feel and think and fear?

Sharing with the "I" statements...open that door, EO...you're worth it.

And yes to another group hug offered by HTBH...what a joy to have this avenue of support and community...connection.

LA

Yes, thanks you all, for the goup hugs!

"You aren't doing the real nice things for yourself...telling yourself you OWN your emptiness...half of it...not seeing the good...feeling sickened from years and decades...not all H's doing...knowing what's triggering in you, and you reacting to it...punishing yourself in sneaky, under the radar ways.

Tell me all of them, EO...ferret them out...some are FOO (and I'm projecting, obviously)...some aren't. Our children are also linked to our own inner children...gets very messy in there...and cumulative....you know this...breathe deeply, exhale, and post...doing that for yourself is great self-care...thank you for doing it tonight."

Okay, I slept on, this, and I see, here is where I am stuck now. I am trusting in God that he has a plan for all this, to use it for some good, whether it is in my life or someone else's. And I do trust myself, that I can bloom where I was planted, that I can carve a happy life from this.

I know where some of it comes, I liked H so much so begin with because he wasn't all feely-grabby. I was 20, and I don't know how dating gets when you get older, but at that point in my life, I HATED dating, because no matter how nice the guys were when you met them, and meeting them on dates, in public, but as soon as you were alone with them, it was just awful. I would just say no politely, and move those hands back somewhere that was okay, but they'd keep trying, as if I'd said "give it a minute" instead of "no" until I just couldn't take it anymore and ended the date, because I had no goodwill left for the guy. So anyway, I was SO HAPPY when I started to date H, and he was not physical at all. He didn't give me a peck on the check or do more than hold my hand for two months. I thrived with no physial contact at that point, it felt like respect. And I told him all the time, how much I liked that about him, when after that, we could kiss for hours, and it would stay there, just kissing. So that's part of my half, picking someone with an aversion to contact, and reinforcing that aversion.

I didn't notice in the beginning that H didn't give affection verbally, either, in that early dating stage, where many others do, when I always compliment him. So that's part of the half that I own, choosing a partner wihtout considering whether that would be a trait that would come to bother me once the newness wore off.

I see the rest of that half is feeling flawed that now I feel the emptiness there so intensely, when I know from my past that I can be happy like that. This is where my struggling is, that intellectually, I know I'll be fine without the physical closeness, but yet I still miss it so much.

"I know you don't feel safe speaking with H about his point of view, his stuff on DD's weight"
Not feeling safe doesn't stop me from speaking anymore, thanks you all for your help with that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Absolutely, I have told him, in MC, and out, each time, of my fear of her getting an eating disorder from this level of focus. I will check to make sure to use I statements to do this.

I do feel like I'm being proactive in helping her build a healthy self-image. I took her to my weight watchers meeting, so she can hear from others that this is a challenge to work with, not a flaw to feel shame over. I do feel like I'm setting a better example for her now. We've all found exercise that we enjoy and look forward to. I think Between Parent and Child helps so much, too, to get them thinking about how they see things rather than whether they think they are pleasing us.

Hey there EO (or should I say Jiminy?) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like you are doing a great job helping DD create a healthy body image. (As a side note, how awful for her manager to say she wasn't thin enough to get work -- when she was 7! Geez).

Have you read Finding the Love you Want? I read that a little while ago, and it seems related to what you are saying about choosing H for a reason that doesn't seem so attractive anymore. I understand that, totally. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Is it possible that you are wanting more physical closeness now that you are wanting more emotional closeness?

Do you see the lack of touch as a lack of emotional intimacy, too? What does it represent to you?

FWIW, when I was younger, I LIKED the grabby guys, because that felt like love to me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> And now, I want emotional closeness FIRST, before physical, and grabby (even non-sexual grabby) now looks less like love and more like an annoying habit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

So.. what I'm getting at is, as MY needs and perspective have changed, my feelings toward the same behaviors have also changed.

Hugs, HTBH

Thanks, Happy, for the reassurance about DD, I'm going to ask her today how she feels about this. I thought that it was a crappy thing for her manager to say, too, but I think she meant well.

I haven't read that book, but it makes a lot of sense. Back then, the only boundary I knew of and guarded was my physical boundary, where now, I also have boundaries around my thoughts, feelings, and actions as well.

Yes, absolutely, I yearn for the physical closeness because it feels like emotional closeness. H won't let me near him when he's mad in any way, so if he lets me in, it means that it's all back on the table for the moment - acceptance, love, care.

So if physical closeness = emotional closeness = acceptance, love, care

then

lack of physical closeness = no love?

I can certainly see how you would feel empty if you didn't have that physical closeness!

What if, to your H, physical closeness = danger or fear, and it's something he just can't handle when he's already upset? So to him, lack of closeness = safety, not lack of love.

Obviously, I don't know WHAT it means to him. I do think it probably has a different meaning to him than it does to you. And you are assuming that your meaning is his, which is painful to you.

Does that make sense? Or do I need to get some more coffee? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hugs!
HTBH

Hey, HTBH...I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT!

LOL

Dang...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

EO...I was going to say that when my H experiences upset, mostly anger, he doesn't touch, either. His stuff...from not trusting himself, and in a way, protecting himself and me from him...go figger.

You won't know until you know...choose what you believe, EO...choose to believe you are loved even when you don't feel it...find out if you feel differently if you don't believe you're the cause of his upset...does it feel like rejection then, or more of a blip, an unknown?

And you know I'm really good at this myself...so you can pot-kettle me all you want.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

How's the job horizon?

Happy Friday!!

LA

Thanks guys, and I see that you are right, I am loved, as far as love being a choice, just not loved in the way I want. This week, it's all about his DS needs not being met, he even called my mom today. No returns, no exchanges LOL. I'd been doing great for months, not a word of apreciation, and I've slipped for about two weeks and now it's front and center. That outcome was not mine to own.

I'll do better as I feel better, easy does it, no need to crisis clean today. I will get it back in shape, I feel secure in that. Until then I accept that H has no affection for me. And even then, I have no control over the outcome.

STILL haven't gotten an offer from the company I'm most interested in, they're asking me to be patient. A few other interesting prospects, though!

You can choose to believe you're not being loved the way you want right now...and believe you are being loved, anyway.

Fear, resentment, anger...over stuff inside of us, block our feelings of love...could be the same with your DH...not about you...what you choose to believe, that his affection, desire, and expression of both are locked up in his own control and fear issues. Still there.

What do you mean about DS needs not being met?

I'm confused.

Not a word of appreciation in months? Really? Truly? Sounds like me forgetting presence, and not seeing what I want because it wasn't in the way I expected.

You're appreciated here...daily. You share yourself here...think that works in the real world, too?

:::ducking::: I would want to smack me for saying that.

Tell me a story. I want a story.

LA

I lost another post, but that's okay, I think maybe I needed to think on this more than once. Another hurricane barreling towards us puts things in a different perspective LOL. What helped my perspective, too was meeting again a friend I haven't seen in 3 years. Her parents are wonderful people, but hate one another, so sad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> It was like looking at what's behind Door number 1. BIG motivator to find half!

"You can choose to believe you're not being loved the way you want right now...and believe you are being loved, anyway."
This isn't really clear, what I meant was, he shows his love with FS, like going to work every day, and like you said, presence matters, too. But meanwhile I'm still missing out on Affection, that's really tops for me.

Yes, I totally hear you, that it's more than coincidence how parallel H and I are, that "fear, resentment, anger...over stuff inside of us, block our feelings of love...not about you...what you choose to believe, that his affection, desire, and expression of both are locked up in his own control and fear issues. Still there."

"What do you mean about DS needs not being met?"
I'm a little embarassed, but to be RH, I've fallen so far behind with the laundry that we were sleeping on half a bare matress, the other half full of clean clothes to be hung or folded. Clean sheets in the dryer. That's okay, I've been plugging away at it, and I'll be done today. THe other stuff was similar, a little behind in mopping vacuuming, all caught up over the weekend. I think of it as low-battery syndrome, I get into good routines, and then I fall out of them.

It feels like not a word of appreciation in months. If I ask, how do you like the floor, he'll say, oh, it looks okay. I'm not cut out to be a SAHM, I'm looking forward to getting back to work.

Thanks for the appreciation here, and in the real world, I do have great friends, too.

I have a great story, DDs went to a birthday party Saturday outside at the park. All their friends from Tae Kwan Do were there. Music playing, the kids started practicing their form together to the music, beautiful!

Yay on your RH...good to know I'm not the only one...

My YS broke his arm and his only chore in the house is to do laundry. Hmmm...help me think of a replacement chore, will ya? Oh, wait...he did his own laundry this weekend...hmmm...nevermind.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How much was you bashing yourself inside and how much was in real disappointment on the outside?

SAHM is the toughest job in the world, in my book.

Work is a relief for me.

(You to H in a O&H driveby)

"I've recently realized I hear, feel and see affection. I hear it in words of appreciation; feel it when you touch me affectionately, and see it in your presence. I have a harder time feeling it from FS, but I know it's there."

This doesn't change him...it informs. And informs you. So that you give YOURSELF words of appreciation; feel it when you rub your arms or feet; and know it even in your presence with self...when you are consciously aware of your own presence. Affection...affirmation...validation...acknowledgement...appreciation...admiration....kinda can find some of all of it inside the others, can't you?

Be a great friend to your H...choose to treat him as your best friend...because you rock at being a friend...and that's marvelous.

Speaking of falling out of good routines...I think I need a parachute for falling so far out...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wanna make me one, in your spare time?

I want a screaming red one.

Thank you for the story...that is an unexpected joy...sounds like you appreciated what they did, them doing it together, the visual impact and that your DD was apart of creating that moment.

Stop asking "How do you like the floor?" and state "I would like to know if you appreciate that I did the floor, even when I really didn't want to."

Get realer...is that a word?

And thanks for posting this because that was a reminder I needed to tell myself, again.

LA

LA, I love how you really help me get clarity in my language. Yes, I love being a great friend with my H, I really feel like we are on the way there, without the huge roadblocks my DJs have been putting in the way. I am still visualizing the spiral staircase, walking past the post of emptiness, dealing with it again, but returning to continue on easier.

The girls started voice lessons (DD10 went first, getting ready for her audition, which went well, but didn't hear back yet), and I started practicing with them. I have always loved singing, but my voice hurts after singing Sunday morning at service. Turns out I was singing... wrong?! I didn't know you could do that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> So I had a wonderful time yesterday singing as loud as I wanted with no pain <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, about the kids, the fluid motion, all together, like a scene in a musical, the kids spontaneously dancing in unison, it was beautiful to see. And over as fast as they started.

Hi EO!

Just wanted to stop in and let you know that I've been keeping up with your story but don't have time to write much lately.

Thanks for sharing the kids dancing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hugs,
HTBH

Thanks, Happy, for checking in. I haven't been checking in as often, the kids are out of school due to Tropical Storm Ernesto, and I've been juggling having fun with the kids and job-searching. A good juggle to have <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have learned two things this week, trying to figure out why it has taking me so long to make these changes, so that I won't fall back into the patterns I've been struggling with again. I think a big part was my willingness to blame my unhappiness on H's and others' choices. My best friend told me years and years ago that married couples don't have to fight like this, and my answer was, sure, everyone does, and I thought she was just naive. Turns out she was 100% right, that people can choose to treat one another with respect all the time! Who'da thunk?

I think that the other part was my judgement. I thought keeping it inside made it not have an impact. NO! I see that my internal dialogue matters! I've been stepping out meeting (before the storm, that is) with family and friends I haven't seen in some time, and enjoy it in a way different way without so much judgement. And I'm listening to my internal dialoge, and rooting it out as I continue along, because some is still there.

That's some important realizations...even if they are re-realizations...

Did you see how StillSeeking put that same thing on my FOO thread? He said Jesus' struggles...the Pharisees? People's opinions? Judgments? His biggest was his struggle within...we are soooo human.

You're finding the payoff in not judging (and blaming your unhappiness on others would be a judgment...why I don't mind throwing out all of it until I get good at it, then adding in bits of discernment...when I trust I know the difference)...so you're changing a lot...find the payoff, praise it, love and hold it up! (That's why Happy Dances actually HELP you change)

And why were you measuring your progress...doing that math of distance over time equals...what? failure? success?

That's judgment! LOL...leave it where it lies, EO...over there...not in here.

Just know you're on a higher rung, same pole...period.

I wouldn't have gotten what your BF said years ago, either...because my folks didn't "fight" that much...except with us kids...they mostly did their tit for tat, punishment and rewards silently...or told each of us kids about it, just not to each other.

Which is how my marriage was, too...still, I can now see the fight, the unnecessity...and the immense power in our heads, our thoughts, our hidden stuff inside...over our lives and relationships.

I'm proud to be on this same journey with you...you are succeeding at life's most difficult job right now...please know this and give yourself big ol' sloppy kudos for it, 'k?

Maybe with your recognition how much your internal dialogue matters, you will know better and accept more, just how very much YOU matter...as you are, fully, huh?

Was that HTBH? Did I see her run by? Was she mumbling something untrue like she doesn't have time enough for us? I couldn't hear her over her running feet...

Must be my imagination. I know HTBH chooses to take time or leave it for another day...she's no victim...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

No, no victims here!

My intent, although it may not have been clear, was to say "Hi, friends! I miss you and I'm thinking of you, and I'll be around again soon!" -- not to run past, shouting, with my hair on fire. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



LA, because you can't know if you're doing a GOOD JOB without measuring your PROGRESS.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It's hard, for me anyway, to let go of that need to know that I'm doing this RIGHT. I want to do the respect thing the RIGHT WAY. LOL. I know, I know, I'm getting there, I'm getting there, progress, not perfection, etc, etc. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm glad that you guys are here, too. I love reading EO's posts, and nodding my head, and thinking, ME TOO!

(About the DS, EO -- your post reminded me of college, when there was a clear space on my bed just large enough for me to sleep in (curled in a ball, not stretched out!), and the rest was covered in books, clothes, papers, you name it. I bet I washed those sheets about twice a semester.... LOL. Yes, I've been there too, and I fall WAY out of my routines too, and I think LA needs a screaming red parachute but personally I'd like some twinkly silver fairy wings for when I fall.)

Hugs!
HTBH

"And why were you measuring your progress...doing that math of distance over time equals...what? failure? success?"
Good catch, my intent was not to judge, but to understand, but I see that unspoken judgement in there, too. I totally agree about the staircase, that I don't even know where it leads, but still, step by step, I'm moving, and feeling my burden get lighter.

Why the judgement? Because the thing with the house, now that I'm caught up, I started to think about "what if" this personal progress will be like with the house, getting better, and better, then slipping. Like if it was a staircase I could slip and fall a bit, too, if I'm not conscious enough. But it really is okay, I trust I can handle that, can recognize it, and pick myself up and brush myself off and get back in the game.

I did read the parallel on your thread, but didn't make the cnnection myself, thanks for pointing it out, it was a wonderful point, about Jesus's struggles.

"I wouldn't have gotten what your BF said years ago, either...because my folks didn't "fight" that much...except with us kids...they mostly did their tit for tat, punishment and rewards silently...or told each of us kids about it, just not to each other.

Which is how my marriage was, too...still, I can now see the fight, the unnecessity...and the immense power in our heads, our thoughts, our hidden stuff inside...over our lives and relationships."
Wow, good to know I'm not alone. Since I realized that this doens't have to be this way, I thinkI've shared with everyone who would listen <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and everyone says, everybody fights. Not depressing, no judgement, I know there are other perspectives if they wish to see it.

Ok, y'all already know I'm corny, no fear of embarassment here. As I'm typing, R Kelly's "I Believe I Can Fly" is running through my head.

"If I can see it, then I can be it
If I just believe it, there's nothing to it"

Big kudos on the menu today, thanks! Know something funny? Today was just the same as last week, no affection, but it's still a great day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"Maybe with your recognition how much your internal dialogue matters, you will know better and accept more, just how very much YOU matter...as you are, fully, huh?"
Thanks, LA, I believe, I do.

Happy, thanks for being here, even when life gets busy. And no pressure for a quick reply, good to know we're all here, in our own time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey EO,

I heard this quote today, I posted it on my thread also, I just thought it was so relevant that I am going to post it on all our threads. Hope you don't mind.

I heard in Akeelah and the Bee, wonderful wonderful movie.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It is not just in some of us; it is in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others" Marianne Williamson

Thanks, BTE, that was awesome!

BTE, I am getting plenty of practice to put your quote to use, to test my mettle LOL. I really am doing okay with H's drinking, and I never thought I'd get to that point this quickly. The PA, negative attitude, I am working on now not letting that bring me down. I'll be honest, I don't understand it yet, but I keep repeating to myself what LA told me, that love is not earned, and what you told me, to respond, not react, and I'm hanging in here.

One more thing, did you ever hear that you can start your day over again? There's a balance between learning from your mistakes and chasing your tail trough overanalysis, and I feel like I am a little too close to the second, so I started my day over, and think if there's a lesson I'm missing, that's okay, it'll repeat. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I'm working on the Owning all Your Villagers exercise, and it is really like a flashlight showing me my part here, how I am allowing this love bank drain by failing to set progressive boundaries. I know I "should" have the hang of this by now, but I've really been slow on the enforcement, allowing the beginning things to slide, and then whenit gets bad to go to bigger steps like leaving the room or taking a walk. I see how this was a great babystep, empowering me to get out of the worst of it, but it leaves me with this everyday emptiness that I have good days ignoring and bad days letting it get to me.

But I'm ready to take the next step, getting rid of this all-day every day drain. Part of me is reluctant to ask for advice because I feel responsible to have gotten this already. But I hope y'all will have a little time to hold my hand through this anyways.

I'll collect some examples today and post them up, and see what you think would be appropriate for progressive boundary enforcement. Ack, there's my DJ assuming that today there will be problems! So these aren't word-for-word, but more general what goes on for example getting kids ready for school in the morning. Lots of days we are on time, but it's a work in progress. How do I respond to things like:

SDs - "get the kids to make their bed" "would you get their sunblock on already"

DJs - "what are you doing in the shower! Don't you know what time it is?"

"if you didn't stay in the shower so long, the kids would be ready already"

AOs - "You are NOT going to be late today" snarling, directed at the kids "Get in the car!"