Eagle


Whether it should or shouldn't be a problem, it IS. Or, at the very least, I think we can both agree that you're not getting any answers asking your straight questions.


No.. I had something more in mind like...

"Why do you feel resentful? What specifically makes you unhappy? How do you think this should work? What do you think is appropriate? or even "How important are these friendships to you?"

Questions that might actually give you the answer to what your wife is thinking. If you ask her a question that TELLS her what she's thinking ie. "I feel that by placing such a high importance on your friendships (you've decided how important the friendships are all ready)...." you've boxed her into a corner that if she answers your question she's acknowledging that what you said is HER truth.

It's like asking "So, have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

It assumes things that she hasn't explicitly told you -- that's the essence of a Disrespectful Judgement.


I see this more like taking your car to the mechianic and saying "The problem with it is the turbine engine." The mechanic says "Uh, your car doesn't HAVE a turbine engine." You say "YES IT DOES! Now tell me what's wrong with the turbine engine!"


Whether it should or shouldn't ... it seems to be that it IS .. or you'd have the information you need and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Either that, Eagle, or there is simply nothing you can do because she's decided never to tell you. If that's the case, then I suppose it won't matter how you talk to her - be nice, be not so nice, be outright mean - it makes no difference. If that's the case, then you're probably not GOING to be able to understand

I still think you have something to gain by trying something that's actually new -- not just adding a few 'feeling' words to the same sentence. You might not.

Mys

The details are in the "how". its not whether or not you talk, its HOW you talk. Its not the question, but HOW you ask it.

"Just asking a straight question should not be a problem. All things considered, I should not have to ask a question, nor should anything I say or want to say, have to be filtered in a PC way. If I want to know something I should be able to ask."

Fine, go ahead and do what you're doing. How is it working for you? its in the eye of the beholder isn't it? Her tears should tell you your methods aren't working for her. Do you care about that? Or is it more important that you make your point?

"Example: I would like to know why friendships are placed at s much higher level of importance than our marriage and our family?"

GEEEZ, I am frustrated in dealing with you and I hardly ever post to you. I can only imagine how frustrated your wife is!
Your style is very confrontational, and you refuse to see it.

You say that you can't fix the problem because your wife won't give you information or details. But your style shuts her down and prevents her from sharing information or details. And you refuse to change your style.

So, how's that working for ya?

* * * * * * *

Lets break this down.

"I would like to know why friendships are placed at s much higher level of importance than our marriage and our family?"

Tell me 5 ways that your wife has placed her friends ahead of her marriage and family.

Does she spend time on the phone she should have spent with your or children?
Does she spend holidays or weekends with them instead of you or children?
Does she spend resources on them instead of you or children?
Does she miss events because friends come first?

5 ways.

Eagle

I learned I could raise ANY topic as long as it was presented clearly and respectfully. I learned to use value-free language where possible. It really worked with squid. That and removing any fixable excuse for her to resent me.

Do you want to be right , or do you want to be married ?

Lexxy,

Please listen to Myschae. She is dead on.

OK I am listening, how about listening to me???

You are getting no response and tears, because you've backed her into a corner. She won't discuss your marriage or relationship because she's backed into the corner.

Better backed into a corner than being lied to, cheated on, disrespected, etc... And How is asking a direct question backing someone into a corner? It's a tough question, but does that mean it doesn't have an answer? She brought this problem into our lives.

Could it be that she has tears and won't answer because she knows she has screwed up royaly? Could it be that she is afraid to acknowledge she has screwed up royaly? People don't feel like they are backed into a corner unless their position is indefensable.

I wouldn't either if I were her. You have a very singular view of the situation and there are only your right answers.

Well, good for you! So now you are DJ'ing me. My view is not singular, I have been a WS, not in this marriage, but I have been. So you will not be honest with your S if asked a hard question??? As I said before there is no right answer, just the truth. Either she does place these relationships above all else or not. The answer is very simple yet very hard and important.

She's got a tightrope to walk.

Really, and I do not??? She put us on the tightrope, I didn't get a vote!

She needs to heal.

Really, and I do not??? I do not deserve nor get the chance to heal?

She's not a recovered WS. She's not a FWS.

Really, are you sure? So I have to wait endlessly for her to feel like she wants to recover??? When is it appropriate to ask these types of questions??? I get the feeling that you would like me to wait until He77 freezes over to ask, if ever.

She's still contemplating what she wants to do. She is not committed to recovery, and yet you want her to act like she is. She's going along with your expectations, but believe me she is still very very conflicted in her mind on which way this is going to go.

I do not want her to act like she is comitted to recovery! I want her to be comitted to recovery. Part of the problem here is she says she loves our children, she will sacrifice anything and everything for them, so if this is true then why the indecision? If our children are so important to her, why does she allow this resentment to be a stumbling block in any attempts at recovery?

She should be very conflicted on which way this is going to go, I have not decided which way I want it to go either. I know how I would like it to go, but I haven't made a final decision for me. Why? I don't have enough information to make an educated decision for me and the decision I make will also affect my kids, so I want to make the very best decision I can. To do that I need information, I can't wait forever.

I want answers to my questions so I will truly know that I want to proceed with recovery. The decision is not and should not be soley hers and hers alone. It should be our decision, but how do I know if I even want to be here anymore?

Eagle,

Knowing your FWW spent the majority of her adult life in the military. Do you think that because she has spent all these years in a male dominant work enviroment, and she is comfortable with that enviroment, she continues to follow that trend?

Just a thought.

Well maybe, she was in LROTC in high school also.

Thank you

Tears without answers sort of smacks of manipulation tactics to me. I served in the US military and believe me it's rampant with flirting and affairs. My Lietenant Commander got PO'd at me because I didn't fraternize with her friend a Captain/pilot and he wanted me to.

Told me I shouldn't be married in the military. (heard often, that one, in fact) "If you needed a spouse you'd have been issued one!!"

Maybe things have changed. Where's the emoticon for 'skeptical'?

Lexxy,

Nothing is working sooooooooo What Now!

If there is to be any reconciliation she needs to step up to the plate and tell me what is needed and what she wants. I've spent way too much time trying to get to square one. I am tired, worn out. This whole thing has consumed me, there is nothing left in me to give.

I did not bring this on, I did not ask for this crap, and I am ready moving on with or without her. At some point in time the WS must do something, apparently neither one of us are getting it.

Eagle --
Your taker is out in full force.

I cannot defend your wife's actions nor will I try to. I'm merely trying to get you to see another point of view.
That maybe you're not getting anywhere with her because of your approach.

You started this thread to ask about friendships and resentment, however you bundle EVERYTHING up into one problem -- her affair. "she brought this problem into our lives" what problem? her friendships? her resentment? or her affair? You've made this all about her affair, when really they are separete issues.

Myschae,

Thank you for your thoughts, I will give all of this soem thought. Obviously I don't get it and most likely never will so I must move on.

Thank you

Lexxy,

See above!

Many good words of advice here, though some seem like opposite sides of a coin.
The line between appropriate and inappropriate opposite sex relationship is often very gray, and can be different for each of us. Be careful making one set standard. I happen to have a few female friends I am "close" to in some ways, but I am very careful not to spend time alone or even talking on the phone much. My WW had a "close" friendship with my stepfather, which outwardly seemed appropriate, but in her heart she had been thinking about him for years. That secrecy led (in part) to their affair which began emotionally last summer (though I think it began long before in her heart). Lots of stupid choices along the way, and if they both had been more careful (and open with their spouses), we likely wouldn't be in the mess of 2 failed marriages. Not to blame it all on that, but affairs thrive in secrecy, and better to prevent them than have to deal with so much pain during and after.
So in the future, if we survive, or if I move on to another relationship, we will set better boundaries/standards re: these friendships, and what is and isn't appropriate. Being honest about feelings inside is part of it (that's where my wife failed initially).
No real advise, except respect yourself and decide if your M is worth some struggle and sacrifice. Don't LB at all, do a great Plan A if you can, and then do a great Plan B.
Best of luck to you. Let us know if you make it to the other side (I'm still swimming these dark waters).

Takers have their purpose, Lexxxy. Harley even says they must be fed, therefore the POJA. Why so accusatory to Eagle. If demanding no affairs is a selfish demand it is also a protection of the marriage. I, personally, don't view it as a selfish demand. I don't think it's too much of Eagle to want his wife to commit to loving him; if she can't do that she should lose him and their children, in my opinion.

Let her have her secretive and inappropriate friendships with the opposite sex.

You know when I was a younger woman, I believed I could have men-friendships, but when I'm absolutely honest with myself, as I tend to be nowadays, I realize that every men-friendship has a sexual subtext.

When I was a younger woman, I thought that I liked men better than women, as friends. Well of course I did. I'm a heterosexual woman, and there is often a kind of competition between women that makes it hard to bridge the gap into a truly satisfying, wise, healthy, mature friendship. But as I grew in age, I also grew in wisdom, particularly about relationships, and I found that my women friends have proven to be wonderful long-overlooked and undervalued gems.

I don't think that is unique, in fact I know that it is quite common for certain women to value men-ships more than women-ships until they reach a certain maturity.

10S,
Please do not misunderstand my position.

I do not condone his wife's actions!!!
I do not believe this is a healthy situation, nor do I think she is right in what she is doing. I do not think having secret opposite sex friendships are right in a marriage.

I am simply trying to get Eagle to see that his APPROACH and COMMUNICATION style is getting him nowhere with his wife.

I think the Eagle family is in a tenuous situation right now. I don't think Mr. Eagle will be successful in making demands of his wife. Part of this whole process, plan A & b and into recovery is ELIMINATING LB'ers. I don't think Eagle has done a good job of that, and he might want to address it further. As well as finding a new way to communicate with his wife.

There's a whole slew of things she's doing wrong. But she's not here at the moment asking for our opinions.

But if he is doing things wrong too, aren't we supposed to help and advise him to look at that????

Eagle, don't give up on your marriage because of a few frustrations on a message board.

Quick answer.

Needs single male friends because they give her attention and make her feel good about herself. Men are dogs, I am one I should know. Now we will be the most complementary, sensitive people in the world if we think we can, umm how do I say this, get some nookie. She obviously likes the compliments. By the way how many single men do you know that actually want a female friend?

She is not choosing them over you and your kids, she wants them both.

My FWW could have given a rats behind if I told her 100 times she looked good today but let a stranger whistle at her and she was on cloud nine.

Youi're welcome... stay your course.

You are getting no response and tears, because you've backed her into a corner. She won't discuss your marriage or relationship because she's backed into the corner.

Better backed into a corner than being lied to, cheated on, disrespected, etc... And How is asking a direct question backing someone into a corner? It's a tough question, but does that mean it doesn't have an answer? She brought this problem into our lives.


Eagle, much of this is the way men and women see things differently. I think you may be able to bypass most of this by just stating your boundaries.

"I am not willing to stay married to you if you continue to have secret friends. It caused a problem once, and emotinally I can't handle the suspense. You are free to make your choices, and do what you feel you need to do, but I am also.
I choose to end the marriage if the secret friendships continue. You have the freedom to do what you want, but grant me the same freedom."

You could probably word this better and make it sound more like you - This is the short version for an example.

You can't change her mind by argument. It doesn't work that way. Affairs are not logical - (grin) you should know this by now.

This is half in jest, but think on it.

You really can't make her do anything she doesn't want to do, or make her feel the way you feel. It boils down to how you will react to what she is does. That is all you can control - what you will do.

She gets to weigh her options, and make a decision, and so do you.

It might help to keep communications to "I feel" statements.

"I feel so much fear when you have these types of frienships, that I can't handle it. Of course you are free to do what you want to do. It's just that if you continue, I won't be able to handle it emotionally, and I won't be able to stay with you."


Don't try to handle emotion with logic. Do it with emotion.

SS

Thank you all.

Lexxy,

Amazing how our communications styles are so similar. If you talk to you H the way you come across here he's in a world of hurt!

How's that working for ya????????