I need some input/advice/2x4s/whatever from the vets on this board. I fear that I may have, however unintentionally, royally screwed up...again.

All things considered, things betwen MP and I have been really good the last 5-6 weeks. There's still issues to work on, both individually and as a couple, but its been a lot better recently than a few months ago.

I've been getting better at anger management (a big LB for me), and using St. John's Wart has helped with my moods and energy level. MP has been receptive to physical affection/SF (if not her top EN, then definately in the top 3 for her), as well as being open to talk with me when I needed to talk about things.

I still deal, in varying degrees on different days, with anger, hurt, bitterness and resentment over the A, and that she hasn't expressed wholesale regret or remorse over recent events, or apologized yet. My issues to own, I know.

So last night I decided to let her know that I was still dealing with those emotions, and that I really wanted her to acknowledge the pain she caused me, to offer an apology, all those things most BS's want. One of the things MP has wanted from me is emotional honesty - I have a habit of keeping things in until they boil over in angry outbursts, and many times she would have no idea what had triggered me.

The conversation was very much a downer, for both of us. I think I caught her off-guard, as we both felt, to one degree or another, that we were finally making progress in getting our recovery going. I'm pretty sure I DJ'd a couple of times, though I was trying hard not to. We both stayed calm (never a problem for her, usually one for me), but it definately deflated both of us.

She does acknowledge that she made some bad decisions, and that she hurt a lot of people. She's still appears to be stuck a bit in the "I didn't care for her or lover her, so why should I care if she had an affair" stage, and while she has not expressely forgiven me for my mistakes, she feels she's let it go (not the optimum solution from my perspective).

We ended the conversation rather distant. We slept in the same bed, but for the first time in weeks there was no physical contact.

I don't know exactly what it was that I said (or what series of things), but it triggered a strong emotional reaction in MP, leaving her headed for depression, hostility, confusion, wishing things were different and playing (albeit for only a few minutes) the "what if" game.

I was texting her over lunch in a flirtatious manner, and she texted me back to let me know that she needed some time and a cry, as last night set her back what feels like a few months and she's not sure how to handle it yet.

I called her and we briefly talked. I don't think she's mad at me, and I'm not mad at her. I did apologize for hurting her, as that was not my intention.

I am mad at myself. It would have been far better, hindsight being 20/20, to just keep my mouth shout. I'm a big boy, and boys don't cry. I should be capable of handling my own emotions without needing someone else to make me feel better.

I realize that MP has her own personal recovery path to walk, just as I have mine, and we both have a marital recovery path to walk together. My feelings are valid, as are hers, but I certainly don't need to go pushing her when she's not ready to be pushed yet.

I did try to clarify that what I wanted was simply my desires, and my emotions were mine to handle, and that I wasn't trying to demand her forgiveness, repentance, sorrow, etc.

So where do we go from here? How do I make whatever it was I did wrong last night right? How do I express myself honestly without LBing or dragging MP down?

If there wasn't consistent (albeit painfully slow to me) progress in our situation, it'd be different. But there is and has been progress, and while I am not responsible for her actions, I am certainly responsible for how I interact with her. How do I keep my emotions in check while I wait for her to find her way (whatever way that is)?

When I look at the positive/negative balance sheet, I really don't have a lot to complain about, especially when I look at other people's situations. I fear that my chronic impatience will torpedo our recovery.

Addendum....

I just remembered a couple of potential DJs.

At one point, I told her that I felt like she just wanted me to get over the A and move on. I also told her at another point that I was not going to accept any responsibility for her choice to have an A, and that it felt like she was blaming me for it.

So yeah...I've got work to do. Still.

Why does it have to be something you did wrong?

You were feeling your feelings, having your thoughts...sharing...being O&H...

and she is doing the same...saying she needs a cry and some time...feeling like she did a few months back...

So?

What did you think O&H looked like? You didn't cause her a darn thing...and she didn't cause you a darn thing. You had an expectation...probably a few...that say...recovery feels good all the time...feels better and better...if we feel worse, we do worse...

Why?

Why choose to believe that? Intimacy can be sharing pain, joy, frustration, angst, tenderness, anger...always vulnerable...no guarantee on responses...honesty is...what you did was fabulous. Owned what you wanted...to hear an apology, remorse, ownership...and that's what you want. Doesn't mean you'll get it...it's a stated desire. Now...if she'd given it right there, exactly how you wanted it, in just the way to convince me...tell you'd believe it as much as three weeks from now when out of no where, she owns her choices, her life...?

You've owned yours. You continue to own, to acknowledge mistakes and make amends...that keeps you from being wrong and allows you to humanly make wrong choices.

You didn't. You shared. She shared. Stay separate and equal...acknowledge and understand...do not go back to owning what isn't yours.

You're close to that...thought a good slap would help.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

brokenbird,

I actually think quite the opposite of what you do....I think you did well....really well. Expect set-backs....you're supposed to have them...it's an inevitable part of dealing with the complex emotions that accompany affairs. Wouldn't it be comfortable for her if you never felt badly? Wouldn't it be more convenient? Wouldn't it also be a lie? The demon you battle is not honesty.....but be willing to accept the reality that honesty is hard sometimes....and that's just on of the consequences that must be faced.

Let her cry.
Stop apologizing.
Cry yourself if you need too (pooh on the big boy crap)
Grow
Learn
Reach a better place.

LA -


Probably not. In fact, she asked me if I wanted just an apology, or a sincere apology. I told her I wanted a sincere apology.


There's that annoying expectation thing again <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Though I'm not sure it was as much an expectation as a desire that things stay good 100% of the time....then again, maybe that is an expectation (masquerading as hope).

I need to keep in mind what bigkahuna told me a few months back. Recovery is a marathon on a rollercoaster.

(I'll reply to your reply on my other thread later - lots to digest in that one <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

star*fish -


Upon reflection, I think it was more a problem of how I executed my attempt at emotional honesty than what I was trying to do. I seem to have a really hard time getting rid of DJ's...need to work on the phrasing of what I'm trying to say. The intent is there, but its getting lost in the translation. Both MP and I know setbacks will happen...but they're still unsettling when they occur.


Most likely. Just as it would be comfortable for me if I never had to face the very real pain that my actions pre-A caused her.

One of the (many) things that I struggle with is that I know, from personal experience in my life and from what I've read here, that at some point, in successful recoveries, the WS is hit with how much pain and hurt they've caused, and it's a pretty rough ride for them. One the one hand, I realize that MP will most likely have to go through that. On the other hand, I would do anything I could if I could spare her that pain without sacrificing our recovery and marriage.

Kind of twisted, I guess. I can hold a grudge for ages, but I just can't be vindictive against my wife. Heck, I have days where I can't even be vindictive against the OM (not many, but some)...then again, he was (I thought) my friend as well.

Thanks for the input, both of you. Things are a little better today, and I think they will continue to improve. I was just not exepcting such a huge dip in the rollercoaster at this point, and it's shown me that I still have areas with respect to communication that I need to work on (as LA so lovingly pointed out in my other thread).

A small upate.

Last night, MP and I talked briefly (she brought it up, and I basically limited my responses to making sure I understood what she was saying and giving a couple of suggestions).

The first conversation consisted of 3 parts. First, I had seen my name next to OM's on a sheet of paper for an online quiz she had taken. Next, I wanted to share with her how a comment of hers had made me feel recently, and third my current issues with anger et al.

She felt that my being nosy had triggered the whole conversation, which is part of what caught her off-guard. I let her know that I had wanted to discusss 2 and 3 for a few days, and that the sheet of paper was not the cause for the discussion.

She opened our conversation last night saying we needed to find a better or different way to discuss OM and the affair. This surprised me, and I asked for clarification.

As I understand it, discussing the A and OM brought all her feelings for him rushing back. (I actually had pondered if that was the case the previous night, based on her body language and the "distant" look in her eyes). She had a hard time yesterday keeping him out of her mind, though she made a point to tell me that she did not give into temptation to call him or e-mail him.

It was upsetting for her because OM had been fading from her mind lately, and now he was front and center again. It had happened a couple of times previously, but those times she had been annoyed with me. This time she was not. This is why she felt like she had been set back several months.

Ooops on my part. She may be farther along in her processing than I have been giving her credit for.

So, I see positives here. She's upset that the conversation triggered her feelings for OM again, when she was beginning to feel they were going away finally. The fact that she doesn't like comparing me and OM (even in her mind) tells me that she is still working on us, and that (to me) is a good thing.

Where to from here? I told her we can discuss this with our MC next week to get his input, but for now I will refrain from discussing the A or OM with her, and will deal with my emotions on my own (they're mine anyway, and I haven't been able to give them away, let alone sell them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

If I were to make a very poorly-educated guess, I would say that she is in some stage of withdrawal, and while I need to talk about OM and the A at some point (or at least I feel like I do right now), it would be counter-productive and harmful to both of us to do so. Instead, I suggested we continue to focus on each other and moving forward.

Who knows? Maybe as time goes on I'll decide that whatever lingering issues/questions I have regarding OM and the A are not that important to me after all.