I have told husband that I will not have any male friends and have written a POJA on it. We will only have couple freinds that he approves of.

I never spoke with them on the phone or went out to clubs with them. We would e-mail every so often with s few. A few were co-workers that husband was introduced to and if I met with them husband would go with me to have dinner with the folks and their wives or girlfriends.

I am doing things for husband as far as meeting his emotional needs with frequent SF, showering together, holding hands, kisses/hugs. Using terms of endearment, which the one I used today he didn't like so I changed to another one. I call him before I leave work and 30 minutes later when I get to the house. I have to ask permission to call my best girl friend, or a mutual lady friend to talk or my mom. I go to work by myself, but anywhere else it's him or one of our kids. If I have a appointment he knows when it is and I usually call when I done and headed to the house.

If he says that he doesn't like something, then I make a conscious effort to do what he wants/says

I don't want to DJ; but if I respond to some of these post, he gets mad. So, I don't I haven't been responding to many lately, but I wanted to make a couple of things clear.

Eagletoo

I'm so glad you're here. *hugs*


POJA implies that BOTH spouses are enthusiastic about the agreement. Are you enthusiastic? I think one of the main issues is that your H senses or suspects that you might not be enthusiastic. If you're not, then what would you change? How would it look from your end of things?


Avoiding his anger/conflict is one of the things that he'd like very much to change. From what he describes, you don't seem to be doing this out of enthusiasm or agreement but rather out of fear and reluctance. Is that true? If so, he says he wants to hear about that and discuss it. Do you think you can do that?

Mys

Hi !

You make it sound like you're accepting your punishment without complaint....

It should not be seen as 'punishment'to do those things which are respectful of your H's broken feelings and which are also highly supportive of recovering your marriage IMO. Its a OPPORTUNITY to fix stuff, not a punishment for anything.

I think Eagle15 has a somewhat abrasive manner to him sometimes, but then so do I. I TRY to help him soften that.

If at the same time you could TRY to view the changes you are trying t make in your life as SUPPORTIVE of rebuilding your marriage rather than a punishment or 'grounding' that will help a lot IMO. Your H is trying to make a lot of changes TOO. Recovery isn't instinctive. I'm getting tee shirts made up with THAT on !

Squid felt like the needed changes were a punishment, so I think perhaps you might also. I may be completely wrong, if so I am sorry. I'm doing a good job of angering people this week, I hope you won't be one ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All blessings

EagleToo, I agree very much that it is a bad idea to have male "friends" at work. As you can see, it makes Eagle15 nervous at a time when you should be concentrating on rebuilding trust. He is right to be very nervous about such "friendships."

But I agree with Bob, it sounds like you view doing things to rebuild trust as a "punishment" and are only doing them under duress. Hopefully, I am reading that wrong and you really are sincere about all this.

Hang in there. Things will get better. Is he trying to POJA more about finances????

It doesn't sound like you are free to discuss your feelings.
That is a shame.

Why do you have to ask permission to call your mother?

It sounds to me like you are going along with HIS recovery program, but that you are very much detaching while doing so.

It doesn't sound as though your needs are being met.

I wish you well....

Actually Eagle..

You don't HAVE to do any of these things.

I hope that you understand that..your posts DO have the feel of a person who has accepted her [undesireable] fate.

I wouldn't want that..I wouldn't *accept* that from my H under any circumstances.

On the one hand..I see that you are very beaten down..backed into a corner with regard to ACTIONS.

On the other hand..I don't see you embracing life as an adult and as an equal. I don't see you taking responsibility for yourself, your happiness, and your actions.

Frankly..you seem very likely to fall right back into an affair at the nearest opportunity..and your H would be well advised to think long and hard about what he IS and IS NOT willing to do re: recovery.

I hate to see a person making lifelong committments out of fear..and I strongly suspect that you are making the decision to remain in your marriage out of fear of the consequences of doing otherwise.

You have mentioned that you are afraid of losing your children..and your Hs posts have a subtle [or not so] underlying threat to them in the sense that in choosing to disagree with him you are choosing to do just that.

That if the answer that you give him doesn't fit the script he has in his head..he won't accept it.

This isn't a situation that is going to "work" in a longterm way.

Yes, your A does complicate things. Issues of trust, integrity, and personal boundaries [or lack of them] will muddy the waters.

Although the two are woven together I have generally seen them as two separate threads. Both necessary..interrelated even..but not The Same.

These two things are ..

Recovery from..or vulnerability to an affair. This is an individual, personal issue.

and

Recovery of a marriage..making changes in a marriage for the health of the marriage. This is a "couple" issue.

It takes both to rebuild but guess which one is the foundation?

A healthy marriage requires two healthy individuals. If you aren't healthy..there is no amount of attempts to utilize MB tools that will produce the desired results.

How can you poja..if you are unable to assert yourself? Negotiations are made with your TAKER..yours seems absent from your descriptions.

Radical honesty..not seeing that. Do you find your Hs methods intimidating? Do you feel safe and respected in sharing truth with him? Truth not only about where you have been, who with..etc..but also about what you like and don't like..want and not..how you feel about things?

How can you be trusted to offer protection from future As in your M..if you can not even defend your boundaries with regard to how you will allow people to speak to you or what you will agree to go along with?

Where are Eagles standards? What do YOU think about what you do..who with etc?

In merely accepting [not to be confused with embracing] your Hs demands..you are abdicating responsibility for your own life.

I agree that it is inappropriate to have close male friendships as a married woman..I think that there are issues you have not been willing to deal with the truth of in that area..yet still I hate to see you hang your head and say "OK..if you insist..I guess..and I hate you for it"

Does that SOUND like a healthy dynamic to YOU?

I could promise you..that it is no more satisfying to your H.

He wants you to value and protect your marriage because you WANT it..anything less is just not ever going to satisfy him. Yet you remain withdrawn and resentfull and he continues to be filled with anxiety and distrust.

Go figure.

Eagle2, I don't know if you remember me, but I've posted to your threads before. I'm a retired Air Force E-9 and I know you and your husband are both AF retirees. This time, please don’t ignore me and the other people who reply to your questions. We need to engage in a dialogue, not a drive-by post you make and never look at again.

From your husband's post earlier this week, and your unhappy one here, you having single, unattached, male friends is a continuing bone of contention between you. You don't like it when you don't have them around you. Eagle2, tell me why you want that privilege. I don’t understand it. Explain it please.

Look, Eagle2, I'm a man. I'm here to tell you there is a predatory quality to ALL unmarried males, including me. Eagle2, for talking purposes, all of us unattached males…and an unfortunate number of married ones…are out there looking for women. Why do you need to put yourself into the category of a woman available for predators to snatch up?

Eagle2, there’s in incredible lack of enthusiasm in your words. I think in your mind, you have a checklist of emotional needs your husband has identified. I get the idea your day is a process of checking off squares as the day goes along.

Is this not you? “Okay, let me see…SF this morning…okay, that’s done…shower? Yep, did that. Check that off. Hmmmmmm, okay three endearment words…I’m a little light on that. I’ll need to do two more this evening. Oh darn, I forgot to hold hands for the required amount of time yesterday. I’ll have to make up for that today or I can’t check that square…”

Is that not what you’re doing, Eagle2? Look, your husband isn’t stupid and neither are we. When you list the EN’s you say you are meeting, we can all see the total lack of enthusiasm in your words and I’ll bet your next check from DFAS Cleveland there’s no enthusiasm when you’re engaged in meeting those needs. Am I wrong, Eagle2? Tell me I am, sergeant, and tell me how I’m wrong. Let’s get this thing resolved why don’t we?

Eagle2, I sure hope you don’t see yourself as a victim, though there’s some of that in your words. I hope you don’t resent the fact your husband won’t accept more than two people in your marriage. Eagle2, you were busted doing some things you shouldn’t. You weren’t brought up to do those things and you know it. You know darned well you shouldn’t have been doing those things, but now you’re acting like you were entitled to do them. You resent not having the freedom to engage in them still. Eagle2, don’t you think just admitting you were wrong, and working to make amends would be a good thing to do? Wouldn’t it be smarter to throw yourself enthusiastically into making yourself a better person? Isn't that in your best interests? Please, tell me.

Let me see if I can show you where I’m coming from. Let’s say one of your subordinates back at your last duty station was called into the First Sergeant’s or Commander’s office because those individuals knew chapter and verse on something your subordinate did…a violation of the UCMJ. Something that was darned serious…something that might get your subordinate kicked out of the service with a BCD.

Tell me, Sergeant, would you advise your subordinate to be stubborn about it? Would you tell him or her to fight it all the way to the top, demand that court martial because, by golly, he or she is entitled to break that regulation, no matter what anyone else thinks? Or, would you tell that individual to admit the wrongdoing, take that Article 15, and get on with life? As a first line supervisor, wouldn’t you tell your subordinate to be smart, take his or her medicine, straighten himself or herself out, and get on with things?

How about after the incident was over…when the punishment had been assessed and your subordinate came back to work with one stripe less on their shoulder? Would you tell your subordinate it was okay to be sullen and unenthusiastic in their duties? Would it be okay for him or her to walk around your office with a wooden expression on their face and reply to attempts at conversation with monosyllables? Would it be okay if there was no respect for your position and responsibility in their voice? Would all that, and an attitude that you, the supervisor, were just darned lucky he or she consented to return to work be all right with you? How long would you take that, Sergeant Eagle2?

Look, Eagle2, I hate to see people in pain and I see massive amounts of pain in your husband’s words and in yours. But, I also see hope.

You did come home to your husband and your family. That was a big step. However, it’s not enough, Eagle2. You also have to get over the resentment you still hold for being busted doing something wrong. Let it go. It isn’t helping you or the marriage. That marriage can be incredible, by the way. Your husband loves you and wants to live with you for the rest of his life. He’s having a hard time with this, but he’s doing what he can to get over it. You have to do the same thing.

Eagle2, if you continue to act as if the simple fact that you are home is all you have to do, there’s only misery and more pain in store for you, your marriage, and your children. Lady, a marriage takes WORK. You have to throw yourself enthusiastically into it…and that means no more checking squares off on a checklist, okay?

Talk to us, Eagle2. We’ll be here for you but you have to make the effort to add to this thread. Don’t desert us, Eagle2. Come back and talk.

Where are you, Eagle2? Come back and explain things to us. Please post here and show us you are engaged in your marriage and that you want to make things better. What's happening, Eagle2?