We are 6 weeks past d-day and last night when my FWH got home from AA we started talking about the hows and whys of him getting into the bar scene. Of course this led to more questions I had about the A.

It had been awhile since asking anything and there were things persisting in my mind that I felt ready to ask in order to fill in more puzzle pieces.

It wasn't too bad until the last question, the one that I had really been wondering about and the one I was least sure I should be asking.

------Graphic Detail Warning----------

I asked if they had oral and he said yes. I told him he was disgusting and that, to me, that is almost more intimate than sex and that I thought it was something special that he enjoyed so much w/me. I asked if he enjoyed it with her(I know, stupid question) and he said not really.

I was shaking at this point and asked what he was thinking and he said that he thought I was going to leave him and that I'd never get over this. He said he hadn't wanted to be asked these questions, but that he was never going to lie to me.

Throughout the whole conversation he was completely transparent and sensitive to my feelings. He wasn't angry at all, just at himself, and sad and scared.

So now I don't know if I did the right thing in asking that question, but it's done. There was a part of me that hoped and thought the answer would be no since they were only together twice, but I kept wondering. I tried to tell myself to assume the worst, but then thought, well, what if he didn't? Then we would have something that's still just ours. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

When you have gory details like this, how do you deal with it? What has worked to get past stuff like this? I hoped that with answers I could finally move on without wondering anymore. Is that stupid?

The details will always be gory and that part of his life, HE needs to help you recover from. I had the unpleasant pix in my head when I chanced upon some nude photos the OW sent of them having sex....places where the sun don't shine. Then I heard her moaning on the phone when I called him one night...... talk about gory!?!?!?! Yet, I survived. There were the nightmares and very angry frustrations that would leave me quite weak and very drained. If I was to recover, my H (NOT the WS) had to help me survive through it.

Sounds like your H is willing to help you recover. R U 2 in any type of MC? Can you both do phone counseling with Steve H @ MB to get a recovery plan going?

It is important both of you get closure and move forward. The healing will take longer than the A. Did you need to know about the gory details? Probbably.....at least until you found out. No one could have talked you out of that..... but as much as it hurts, that's all that happened. At least you didn't have to go through the OW claiming t/b pregnant (3 times in our case), her calling up and claiming the WS commited emotional adultery against her for returning to his family, the OW calling to tell me that she (OW) was married to the WS not me, etc...... and that was just some of the stuff I dealt with. There is many more gross stories out on this board and other places.

Hope this helps.
L.

Hi 24give...

Been there. I have decided I won't tell you my particularly gory detail that my H confessed to unless you ask but I know what you are feeling.

I had a terrible time with this one particular factoid. It ultimately boiled down to time and prayer. I got to a point where I absolutely refused to allow the thought more than a flicker of entry into my mind. If it tried I banished it immediately, even to the point of saying out loud STOP! I will not waste any brain matter on that thought!

My H was very transparent and remorseful as well. We are 3 yrs past d-day. All our recovery efforts have been so very worth it.

Today is my 11th anniversary! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Blessings,
Glad

Six weeks is not a long time. Your reaction is pretty normal. Most people consider OS more intimate the SF. In the long run, you will get over this faster by knowing than by always wondering but not knowing. You need time.

HUGS 24give. I see how why you can't sleep.


{{{{{24give}}}}}}

What if you feel that MC and everything else is going well except for the WS doesn't want to talk about the A's anymore or give you the 'detail' answers that you're looking for.


Glad - Happy Anniversary

thanks beat...

what kind of details are you looking for? sex details?

i covered everything with my h, so let me know what you are thinking you need to know and i will give my perspective if i can.

(((((beat))))

so glad MC is going well. it is key!
Glad

Orchid--Thank you so much for the response, it does help to know others have battled this (and worse) and survived. I am so sorry for what you've been through. We are in weekly counseling and my H is very willing to help me through this.

Glad--I love your posts, they are always so encouraging. I think of you and your "beautiful recovery" often and it helps me to press on. :-) Happy Anniversary!! Our 10year is in July.

I woke up at 4 this morning w/the thoughts and I prayed and prayed for them to go away, but everytime I closed my eyes they were still there so I came downstairs and started posting. I actually got a little mad at God, thinking "I prayed and they're not going away!!! What's up with that?!" Kind of like a child not getting what they want right away.

Pan--Thank you. What you said is exactly what I was hoping and thinking and the reason I gave my H for asking the ?s:
"In the long run, you will get over this faster by knowing than by always wondering but not knowing. You need time."

Thanks Glad,

I feel I need to know sex details as well as things they talked about, who supplied the condoms, if there was OS, where they had sex, if there was lots of foreplay and how...etc.,etc.

I know some questions are weird but like my W says often that I assume things too much...well, what happens if I only get part of an answer or none at all.

I have a right to know and to me it doesn't matter if she feels I don't need to know or not.

24give - hugs to you, I know how hard this stuff is at the beginning when all is so new and raw and hurtful, when the "mental movies" are filling the screens of your mind, when every door you open seems to playing the same movie in THAT theatre of your mind too. It WILL get better. I want you to know that, even if you can't accept or believe it yet.

Your husband sounds repentant and open and honest, not volunteering things that might hurt you to "assuage" HIS mind, but to answer questions YOU want answered, for whatever reason you choose. Your "need to know" is being placed ahead of "his hope you can forgive him and rebuild a marriage WITH him."

So what you are really asking may simply be "CAN I forgive him?"

That's the question that all Betrayed Spouses have to ask themselves.

Then, once that question is asked and answered, the next question is do I WANT to rebuild a marriage with him knowing that past cannot be "undone" and that only a "new future with him" can be built on the ashes of the "old past?"

Forgiveness is where it starts, and where it ends. Love, that we all want, blossoms in between as a result of the "forgiveness planting, watering, and sustaining."

But that assumes YOU believe in the Threefold Promise that is inherent when you say, "I forgive you."

Rather than spend a lot of time on that right now, let me give you a link to an old thread of mine on Forgiveness. You can read it at your pleasure and at your leisure. Perhaps you'll find some "gemstones" in there to hold onto as you walk through this difficult process of recovery from adultery.


Heres the link:
Forgive? Trust? Really? Has anything been learned in the past year?

God bless.

Zuj--Thanks for the hug, I needed it!

beatn--I'm looking forward to Glad's response to you, she has such great insight. Have you and your W read Joseph's Letter? It helped us both to understand my strong need for filling in the blanks.

Hello again...As we've talked before, we have a lot in common. I too had to deal with the feelings of SF vs. oral. He hit me with the types of sex on the day he told me everything. 3 of the ONS's were SF and the last was oral...both ways. For some reason the oral hurt me more too. We've had the same discussions re: his enjoyment level. He always says our SF/oral was so far better than these brief encounters. With his sexual addiction it really was more about the chatting, the buildup and so on but it is still hard to truly accept. Your mind wants to somehow glorify it for lack of a better word. I know the above mentions that it does get easier with time are true, but for us being so new it is hard to truly grasp. You know, 24give, I think we can make it. Both of our H have done the right things and I think we both struggle with the well they're doing right so why do I still hurt. That's just how it is. I think we just have to actively work to focus on the current and deal with the past as necessary. If we only focus on the past though I think we can't move forward. I hope you end up having a great day and a truly wonderful Mother's Day!!!!!!

24

Yes we haveread it, I read it on MB and printed it and had her read it but I didn't get much of a response, I don't know if she was still 'foggy' at the time or just didn't care how I felt.

The problem is, I feel the need to know these things but whenever I bring up the subject, she gets upset and accuses me of throwing it in her face. With her past dishonesty and now telling me this and getting upset makes me wonder if there are more things that she's hiding.

24give--I am humbled by your kind words to me. Thank you.

beat--
I am firmly on the platform that a WS needs to transparently answer whatever the BS thinks they need answered in order to process and heal and stay on the recovery path.

That said...there are always conditions to that ultimatley being a successful process in the recovery. We are all different, but, for my personality, these are my conditions:

I, BS, have a responsibility to express my need for knowledge in a non-LB way, and provide a safe environment for the transparent conversation to take place.

WS has a responsibility to be totally transparent and answer to the best of their ability.

BS has the responsibility to calmly accept the transparent answers.-----this does not mean no emotion can be shown---just no LB, which is a sure fire way to shut down the transparency for good. ***safety for both parties in the conversation is essential***

Since I was BS, most of this is what I think BS should be like....

In addition, BS needs to ask, and then SHUT MOUTH AND LISTEN. I am a much quicker wit than my H and used to verbally bury him with my fast mind. He could not keep up with me and would end up completely claming up. I have learned to be successful at stating my thoughts and then shutting up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just last week I presented my H with some thoughts/feelings on some things that I didn't think were going well in our M and I literally had to be quiet for 5 min. before he felt safe enough to trust that I would not interrupt and overtalk him, to actually start responding to me. It ended up being a good, revealing conversation.

Anyways, I think I am losing my train of thought here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ummmm...okay, I will leave the post with just the above for you to chew on and ask questions if any...I am sure I was going to add more but I get side-tracked easily! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Blessings!
Glad

Okay, after re-reading, I remember where I was trying to go... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I had a big "presentation day". I spent 4 days writing down all thoughts/feelings/questions while he was out of town, then I organized it into a presentation, then I asked him to have a big conversation with me and we found uninterupted time to do it and then I prayed and then I read word for word what I had written, only pausing for a response if I had it in my presentation that I was looking for a reponse from him. After his response I moved on with the presentation..(took notes if it was something I wanted to come back to).

I stated what I knew for fact, instead of "asking" him about it. I know this presentation approach will be contrary to some personalities, but it is what worked for me and helped me to not go off on tangents or lose my cool. It kept the conversation neatly focused and in the direction I wanted it to go.

Incidentally, this was NOT easy for me. After the 3 hr conversation, I ended up having a full-blown panic attack where I thought I was dying. Don't recommend it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> but it had a major impact on my H. He hated what was happening to me because of what he had done. I had not wanted him touching me, but had to let him help me through this as he had to keep our kids away from me and medically help me during the 30 min the attack lasted. Scary stuff.

It is a memory now of his gentleness and willingness to help me recover in the early stages.

I love him. He is a wonderful guy.

Blessings,
Glad

Glad {{{HUGS}}} That is the kind of thing I can see myself doing - if I am every lucky enough to get as far as you. And unfortunately I can see myself getting the panic attack too.

I know my WH was very worried about my on Tues when I was doing Plan B on the phone to him, and reading him my letter. He kept saying 'breath, omg, breath' (but he didnt come home - did he!)

Anyway - THANKYOU for that post, i know that i really could relate to what you were saying.

zuj

Forever--I appreciate your thoughts on forgiveness. I know that is my goal, which is why I picked the username 24give. We talked about forgiveness in MC last week and the MC asked what my definition was. I said I thought it was a process and that it's like witholding deserved punishment. In a way, every waking moment that I allow my H near me is forgiveness. Does that make sense? I know we have a long way to go and I am trying to move forward. I look forward to reading your thread, thanks!

March--Hi there!
"You know, 24give, I think we can make it."
I do too! I really do, I just have to remember there are ups in this rollercoaster.

beatn--I truly hope your W will come to realize how important this is for you to move on and rebuild. I know that my H's willingness to answer the ?s no matter how hard or degrading is what helps so much.

Glad--Oh I feel for you and your family. How hard that night must have been. To see what you've been through and how far you've come shows me that God is so faithful.

I think the answer is up to each individual.

The question you should ask is what can you live without knowing.

If the answer is you need to know everything then thats what you need to know.

Be very careful each detail will become part of your memory.

I just found out yesterday after 2 and a half years about the entire A.

By the way the oral hurt the most here as well.

I can tell you we were going through the cycles and any time a trigger happened I was mad about the dishonesty not the affair.

Wow...am I slow or what? To Forgive...2-4-give...I've been reading your screen name as 24-give this whole time...like you give 24 hours a day.

Really good to know, 24give!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Years of heart...I'm with you on the dishonesty. Realizing all the lies I was told was in some ways just as crushing as finding out about the sexual betrayal.