To refresh your memory, my husband is coming out of an emotional affair - a short-lived crush, if you will. Communcations have been very good between us and we've made progress toward rebuilding our marriage. In some ways it's stronger now than it was before. However, because he met this woman through a motorcycle group that does numerous activities together, the issue of no contact is almost impossible. Both he and the OW are actively involved in the club, and the only way for them to avoid contact is for him to stop attending all club functions. Motorcycling is his life and a part of his job, so I can't make him give up that part. I just want their friendship to stay as strictly business.

Any thoughts on how to handle situations where there will always be the opportunity for contact? My husband says that I should just come along, but right now I can't stand the thought of even seeing the OW!!

LA, are you out there? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Debby

gsdlover,

NO CONTACT IS NOT NEGOTIABLE. PERIOD.

Your H is gonna have to find a new group of bikers to hang with. You say motorcycling is his life and part of his job? Well guess what. He's gonna have to chose between you and his other love. That may include the need to find a different job. "Professional" or "some" contact never works for the long run. NEVER.

I'm sorry dear, but what I'm telling you is fact.
By the way, I do wish you and your H all my best in the successful recovery of your M. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God bless,

KJ

Harley says EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS are required to maintain NC. Its THAT vital.

Your H needs to change his club. Read the KiwiJ. story if you want a cautionary take of what NC violations do.

Your H saying he won;t change clubs is EXACTLY the same as him saying " My club is more important that your dignity, your hurt or our marriage".

Everyday almost, a BS says no contact is not possible. What they really mean is they think it's too "hard". I'll tell you what's really too hard....divorce. What you're really doing by saying okay to the club is enabling your H's affair by protecting him from the consequences of it. YOU can't do this to him??? Don't you have that backwards?

It's not impossible at all. What is impossible is the notion that your marriage has a CHANCE while they still see each other. Your marriage will NOT recover and the affair will not end while they continue to see each other.

Do you imagine that a recovering alcoholic could continue to drink but just call it "professional" and somehow recover? Ain't gonna happen. A drink is a drink. Contact is contact. You can call it cute names like "professional" or you can call it cow poop, it is what it is. And it is an AFFAIR.

Sigh.

Consequences my dear.No Contact means just that.

And Damn. Starfish is right - you think no contact is impossible? Try divorce.

Join another club together. That should take care of that.

I agree with ML! An alcoholic can't continue to drink because it's an expectation of his/her job., e.g. entertaining customers, etc. An alcoholic often has to give up their former peer groups because drinking had been an important part of the time they spent together.

My exWS had been drinking and drugging since age 15. After multiple treatment centers and multiple relapses, he finally made a decision that he had to give up his job. He had worked with one of the BIG 3 automotive companies for 17 years. He knew he would be challenged to make as much money and as good of benefits when he left. But, he knew his work environment had too many triggers for him to overcome. He figured if he stayed and continued to drink and drug, he wouldn't be alive much longer, anyhow. He'd already lost his first marriage, house, kids, etc. to his addictions.

Many WS have had to make the choice between maintaining their current job and social group, or giving up their marriage and family. Yes, it comes down to that when the affair occurs around one's work and major social groups! It's called "consequences" for one's choices. It can take some time to locate a new job. It means that the WS has to make an active commitment to search and to minimize any potential for contact with the OW/OM in the meantime. Several WSs have taken pay cuts in new jobs because they chose to make their marriage priority over all else. And.....if pay cuts don't look so great....try the "pay cut" you're going to take if the marriage ends in divorce!!

You had to "give up" the security and joy of a faithful spouse through no doing of your own. You will make a choice of whether or not attempted recovery of your marriage is worth all the pain, anger, effort, etc. that comes with that choice. You have suffered loss of your "best friend" etc,.

Obviously you can't force your spouse to quit his motorcycle group. But, don't fool yourself that "no contact" is not an option. It's only "not an option" if you accept it as being such. You have read the feedback here about the dangers of making it an option when you want to recover your marriage. It is an option for you, if you make it one. Your WS might not agree, might not like it, might believe he can make the marriage work without making that choice. Like the alcoholic who plays the odds by maintaining former peer groups, who hangs out in the bars thinking "I just won't drink", etc, he's playing russian roulette with his marriage.

Been there. Done that. Ain't no such thing as a "professional contact" animal.

Why did my FWH quit his job? Because I firmly faced him with a choice: your job or our marriage. Of course there were other boundaries involved too, and many other extraordinary precautions, but that was a big one. And the OW didn't even work there anymore; she just had friends who did and could access his schedule.

Our marriage would not have survived the mistrust to have him continue where he was working. He willingly quit to show that our marriage was his first priority, even though he really enjoyed his job, even though he couldn't afford to quit, even though it was a law enforcement position.

Our marriage was the most important to him. Bottom line.

NC is always possible.

Thank you all for your comments! I'm certainly thinking long and hard about this situation. The part that keeps me wondering if I'm making a bigger deal out of it than I should is the fact that my H and this OW have only conversed on the phone and through email for a few months. No physical contact has been made. She lives 150 miles away, so personal contact would be minimal. This is soooo minor to the other stories that I read here on the forum.

My H told me last night that he is more commited to me now than he was on our wedding night. He has backed off on this relationship; he is listening to my feelings and is trying to make good choices based on them. I'm thinking with some time and patience on my part this will all blow over on its own. I'm so confused.

Debby

Debby, you are only confused because you are BULLSHI**ING yourself by telling yourself this. This is what alcoholics say when they are in denial: "I am not as bad as those "other" guys" because I did not drink every day."

Guess what? In many ways, your case is WORSE than many others here. We have affairs here where they have never even MET in person. Yours HAS.

Just know this, that if contact does not end, the affair will not end. And guess what else? If you continue to ENABLE this affair by denying the truth, it WILL be physical!

Nor will he withdraw from her. Nor will your marriage recover, nor will you ever recover. How do you imagine you will ever recover when your H continues to inflict this disrespect on you? To continue to contact her is grossly disrespectful to YOU.


"Backed off" does not mean OVER. "Backed off" means: THE AFFAIR IS STILL ON.

The easier, softer way will avail you nothing, I am sorry to say. Good luck, because you will need it.

Um..... he shouldn't be backing off of the A, he s/b saying he has ended it and show by example. I mean...backing off from an A is like taking less drinks but still an alcoholic? I am not the AA expert here but cold turkey both the A and drinking is what is really needed.

JMHO,
L.

Maybe he is using the "tapering" method? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Debby:

You can rest assured this kind of thinking by yourself will only double your troubles in the future. You are setting yourself up for 100% sure fire failure thinking like this. Your deluding yourself girl and rationalizing this in a big way. This isn't nearly as "minor" as you think. There is no such thing as only a "little pregant".

It is your life however, so you should do what you have to do...just remember, YOU are 100% responsible for the outcome.

Lem

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


Mimi wrote: Check this out from the How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS..one of my favorite pieces of reading material...

p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

If your motorcycle man won't listen to a guy named Harley, who will he listen to?

Your CH is putting baloney on the plate. Are you going to eat it? He needs to quit the club or you need to quit him.

While all of your comments make perfect sense, I don't want to make the ultimatum of quit her or quit the marriage at this point. I love my H and want to keep him! I feel we're still in the negotiations stage and in time we can come to an agreement that will work for both of us. Right now I am hoping for no personal contact - email or phone. Club events are okay. Call me Clueless or whatever, but baby steps seem to be the way to go with my H. Dr. Harley says no demands, disrespect, or anger, so I'm hoping that he'll reach the NC decisions on his own. We are closer to that point than we were three weeks ago, and I think he'll be more willing to follow his own "rules" than ones imposed on him by me.

This whole thing gives me a stomach ache. To be honest, I feel worse now than I did before I started to post.

Debby

Harley did not say to allow this to make you sick did he? I think not....so decide whether u r being used to 'enable the A' or doing a good plan A. If it's the later, then fine....if it is the 1st, then u r only hurting yourself and your family.

L.

Debby:

This is ok, you don't have to make any "demands" or "judgements"...but I think you are mistaking self respect and boundaries for ultimatums and demands. Honey, I fear for you because you have the "baby steps" "my husband is different" syndrome thay many of us Betrayed Spouses have had at one time or the other. You somehow think your husband is different. Honey, he isn't...and I am 100% sure and willing to bet a year's worth of paychecks to that point....BUT....It is your life, so you DO what you need to do. All we can do is offer you opinions, but in the end, NONE OF US has any personal stake in what happens or the outcome of your decisions, so you have to be ready and willing to be responsible for the outcomes of all of the decisions you make in your life.

You won't be dissapointing anyone here or "letting us down" by not heeding the advice of strict No Contact, etc...you will only be letting yourself down. You seem to think that you are making progress...so by all means, go ahead with this "limited" contact plan....this message board is littered with 7 years worth of posters who have tried this method....I can tell you that the ending is not gonna be suspenseful. The proof is in the pudding.

Please don't confuse not hearing what you want to hear as being unsupportive.

Goodluck

LM

U love your H but right now you are dealing with a different character known as the WS.

Pay heed to what Lemonman is saying..... if he is willing to bet some paychecks....he wouldn't make such a statement if he c/b wrong. My little paycheck isn't worth betting on but his might be. LOL!!! Just kidding. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Bottom line is pray for a clear mind and calm heart. Don't float in the river of de'nial. It stinks.

L.