My husband has been having an affair for 12 months. I found out 4 months ago. He offered me reconciliation because he said as far as the bible is concerned he has no other choice. He told me he doesn't love me, he is in love with her, but his concience is clear by making me the offer. He has put no effort into our marriage (we separated the day I found out) and has blamed me the whole way. I just want to do what God wants me to do. I want my freedom from a man who doesn't love me, but I feel guilty for taking it. What should I do?

Feeling guilty does not ~make~ you guilty ... What does your pastor say?

How long have you been married?

Is there any previous history pf
previous marriages
affairs
addiction
abuse
???

Do you have children?

Sorry you are here.

Have you been reading this site long?

Pep

Hi Pep,

I'm new to the site. My pastor says marriage is based on love, honour and respect and agrees there is none of this on my husbands part. I asked my husband how I would know that he would never do this to me again. He said 'if you can't be the wife I deserve and give me no reason to turn away from you again then you confirm my suspicions'.

We've been married 4 years with an 18 month old baby.

Neither of us have been married before. Were both virgins til our wedding night. His father is a pastor. No other affairs though my husband is a flirt and likes the attention he gets from the girls...always has. No abuse etc.

Thanks

Please explain for me: does this mean that it's your fault he cheated because you weren't the wife he deserves? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Yes, he says it's my fault he had an affair. That I drove him to it. Our sex life was a problem from the start because it was always painful for me. I thought things were getting better since our baby was born in that area, but he started having lunch dates with this girl when my baby was only 5 months old and it all escalated from there. He went away on business once a month for a night and would invite her to his hotel room. I know I wasn't the perfect wife. I know our marriage problems were 50% my fault, but I know what effort I'd have been putting in if it were me that did this to him. And after all, he's still in contact with her.

no other affairs that you know of

Have you read any of the info on this site? Read about A's and the PLans so that you can see what you are up against. The affair is NOT your fault. All marriages have their problems, and having a child is a crisis point, especially for men. IF he was unhappy he had the duty as your husband to express that and work with you on a solution. This is what mature people do. I know that my FWH has grown up a lot after his A and during our recovery. He too blamed me and the OW helped him blame me as well. They are in a fantasy that statistically will not last.

I would accept your husband back with terms such as:

NO contact with OW of any kind, and a no contact letter to get the ball rolling

Openess and honesty--you get to see all phone bills, credit cards, etc. He must be accountable to you for his whereabouts

Counseling with a pro-marriage counselor.


My FWH had his A beginning while I was pregnant and our DD was so young, I knew she wasn't effected too much while he was cheating, but I wanted to do everything possible to save our M so that I could one day say to her, in the event that we divorced, "honey, I did everything I could to stay married in a healthy way" You deserve love and respect and you must be able to model that for your baby. Read "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr. Dobson--hold your H to the standard of a loving marriage, no less. If your problems cannot be resolved by the two of you, with no OP in the picture, then your can decide.

If you take him back without boundaries, he will just fall back into his A or start another one. You both must be willing to work together to make your M a success.

thank you guys,

yes, no other affairs that I know of....but I think I believe him. Our story is quite complicated. He's English and I'm Australian. I moved from my home country to live with him after our marriage. Prior to that we lived a long distant relationship while he finished uni. We didn't see each other for 9 months before our wedding and 12 months prior to that we would travel back and forth to see each other in uni holidays. We went through a lot to be together. Now he tells me he felt deep down that he had doubts about us because of the strain of living apart for that 2 years.

We decided to move to my home country but he sent our baby and I out 3 months ahead of him saying he'd promised his boss he'd work up til Christmas. I was very upset but had learned to let him do what he wanted to do. He finally arrived out here in January and was only here for 2 days. His behaviour was so strange and I felt the Holy Spirit convicted me to ask him if he'd ever been unfaithful. Then I found out the truth. That night he got on a plane and returned to his country. In the last 4 months he has never made a phone call to ask me how I am or anything. It's like I didn't even exist...except for nasty messenger conversations and emails. He didn't even ask how his baby was. Now he's finally arrived out here to start his life and has been here 3 weeks. He sees our baby 2-3 times a week and we only manage a hello and goodbye between us.

It is like every decision he has made over the last 12 months and particularly the last 4 months is to ensure our marriage ends, but at the same time he seems angry that I'm getting on with my life. He has said the most hurtful things that I don't know how I will ever get over, and the thought of taking him back and giving our marriage another go repulses me. No-one had the power to hurt me as much as he did and he has done so beyond belief.

I've read Dr Dobson's 'Love Must Be Tough' but it doens't seem to have made a difference. I told him she would have to be out of his life before I was even capable of thinking about reconciliation. He did it for a week, and now they are in contact still. I keep asking God 'how much is too much? Can I let go? Will you by angry with me if I let go?'. I just don't want to disappoint God.

My personal belief after much prayer and thought was that God expects me to give my M my all. That is MY all, with His help. I went to the ends of what I thought I had and then some. BUT...I was able to keep going because I kept seeing even the slightest glimmers of progress from my H.

It is hard to piece together, but it doesn't sound like you and your H have much of a basis of a day to day, real life M to go back to or improve upon. His comments indicate a person in the fog rewriting history. Why else would he have continued your R despite difficulty if he had not loved you and wanted to M you? You have a child now, so in my opinion, everything changes because of that. In Plan A you meet your WS needs to show them that there is hope for a good marriage, you examine how you can contribute more positively to the M, but you don't become a doormat. You don't just ignore contact with the OP. It is a very hard thing to do and you must be resolved. Only you know whether you should try and fix this.

I know that I finally came to peace with God about this--I told Him that I would give it all I had with His help and I was able to go on beyond anything I ever thought that I could. But I know that if my H had never stopped contact and continued not being fully in the M despite all I had done, I would have felt calm and OK with God if I divorced him. Your H is making decisions and they are bad ones for your M. You only control yourself, so you would not be responsible for the split if he refuses to fully participate in the M. Faithfulness is just a basic starting point!

Thank you Anne.

I guess I just don't know how i would ever be able to get past the things he has said to me, such as (copied and pasted word for word):

- most of the time i am not as physically attracted to you as i used to be
- i am scared by a lack of physical attraction to you when i see you
- unfortunately when someone shows you an understanding and friendship and love that you 'never' had it can be hard to resist
- when it should have been effortless it never was
- i couldnt contrive conversation with you that simply wasnt in me

That's just a few statements he has written to me. I also said to him 'it's not like you're telling me you love me'. He said 'I don't. You want me to tell you I do so you can feel better'.

My H has attacked the very fundamentals of me...my looks and my ability for conversation. I know I wasn't a perfect wife, but I waited for 2 years for him on the other side of the world while he finished university because he told me he loved me and wanted to marry me. I then moved away from my family, my friends and my country once we were married to live with him. Yet he makes a comment like 'unfortunately when someone shows you an understanding and friendship and love that you 'never' had it can be hard to resist'. Honestly, how have my actions over the last 6 years not proved how much I loved him?' It hurts so bad to hear him say he couldn't contrive conversation with me that simply wasn't in him. He's right I guess. He hardly ever made any attempt at conversation with me. Our marriage consisted of watching tv every night and going to bed and reading. He never wanted to talk...and he wonders why I was unable to fulfil him sexually. I desperately tried to get my H to read 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus' for 5 years because so many of our arguments were over the silliest things that were just typical male/female differences...but he never would. He rarely wanted to do anything for me or with me. Day to day was a struggle, so I just let things be...because I did believe we loved each other and I just put his behaviour down to him having a lazy nature. I still loved him to death.

But now, I just want to run a hundred miles away. We have lived apart for almost 7 months and I just can't see anything working. He's put in no effort at all. Has not once said to me 'I want to try and make this work'. Just 'everyone tells me I can't leave this marriage and that I have no choice...but I wish I did have a choice'. I have stopped all contact with him completely except for when it comes to our baby...and that hasn't made any difference to him either.

Sorry for all the venting. I've only just discovered this forum and it's so good that it's here. I've not had any counselling or anything and just don't know how to handle the shock I feel I'm still in.

Sweetie, I am sorry for your pain, it is terrible! BUT--I heard all that kind of stuff too, not attracted to me, we were always too different, I ruined sex for him, I was to blame, I treated him terribly, yada, yada, yada. Yes, there might have been a grain of truth there, but he ignored all the good things I did (and believe me, there were MANY) and all the hurtful things he did along the way, including not communicating with me and being honest so that we could work together to make our M work.

The bottom line is this: you do all you can and they need to do what they can too. Right now, he is in the A addiction. He is justifying it with all this stuff about you. The A is about HIM and his inablity to be intimate and loving with YOU his chosen SPOUSE to whom he made vows. He may NEVER do anything to change things. He MAY just decide to divorce and continue blaming others for problems, running away and finding someone new who will fulfill this fantasy of his.

Only you know him well enough, only you know what he is capable of AND what you are willing to go through to try and make it work. God loves you and knows you are grappling in all good conscience over this. You are not taking any of it lightly and you are considering your child's future.

I have friends who have divorced their H's for less than adultery, but b/c they could no longer live with a H who wasn't willing to work and make real and lasting change toward being a loving and intimate H. I know God doesn't condemn them and I know they went to the ends of the world to try and make it work. When their H showed no progress they moved on. My God is a God of forgiveness and understanding. He knows your heart.

IF your H agreed to the basics of rebuilding your M, NC, a willingness to take action, counseling etc. you would eventually heal the wounds of the fogbound things he said. You might view it as a past life, or the words of a person very ill or whatever works for you. All of this is possible but it might not be what happens for you. IF your H won't budge and is an empty shell when with you b/c of obligation, would God want that for you?

Where is your H now? He lives in your city, but not with you? What is your understanding about what happens next?

Thank you Anne for taking the time to write to me. You make alot of sense and have alot of wisdom, and sound so incredibly courageous.

My H is here in my city, but not with me. About 1.5 hrs away by public transport. He tells me his girlfriend is planning on coming out here 'because her brother is here'. He's in a different state, and my H is trying to play down the fact she's coming here and making out its not for him. He still thinks he can lie his way out of things, but I guess time will tell. They're in contact via phone and email.

I don't really have much understanding about what happens next. I'm in self-protection mode now, and am trying hard to not give way to my anger, but he defended his girlfriend to me the other day and I completely lost my cool. I have to say though, it does feel good to get some of it out! I don't know if I'm doing the right thing, but I'm getting on with my life. I'm trying to start a little home-based business (wedding invitations of all things!!), I found a new church to start going to, I've gotten involved with a connect group. My H made a comment about me not wearing my wedding rings anymore to show everyone I'm single. I'm confused about this...why would he care?

Can you tell me what happens next? It's starting to sound like affairs all take the same course.

I find it terribly ironic that your husband is "concerned" about offering you reconciliation based on what the Bible says, yet entered into an affair, which is clearly against the Bible's teachings. He is really in the fog and appears to have been there for some time.

You are doing the right thing by taking care of yourself and your child. I think it's time to consider Plan B, although he doesn't seem to mind being without his family. Perhaps by showing him you can take care of yourself and don't need him, he will "see the light." Then again, he hasn't seemed to have needed you for a long time. How did you guys come to love each other when you were never together?

{{{{{hugs}}}}}

Stumbling

The biggest stumbling block I think, too, is all of your time apart and not a lot of time together to use as your foundation.

Have you read Surviving an Affair? Have you tried to meet his needs--if he won't tell you, then think about the top things he complains about, that will help you see where he believes you are lacking. You CAN, during the times he visits you try to meet those needs. For instance, my H did tell me I didn't want to have sex enough. So, during Plan A we sure did! Things he did admit that he loved about me--my friendship with him, conversation about more than just shopping and fitness issues (OW was not too bright or deep) so I would make sure to read about things I knew would interest him and comment on them, really be his friend, be on his side etc.

HOWEVER--he knew I was not ok with contact. When I found out, I would confront him about it and again discuss my feelings and how much that hurt me. Fresh betrayal each time. After a while I could see that he was cake eating and he wasn't going to completely give her up, would keep lying about it and our M really wasn't recovering. I knew it was time for Plan B when I found out about contact again and I was resolved within myself that I just couldn't live with a man who cheated, I deserved more than that, and our DD needed to have a strong role model, not a clingy doormat willing to put up with anything as long as we stayed married.

I sent him a Plan B letter via email when he was on a business trip, moved with our dd out of state into my parents' home. I slipped sometimes, but mostly only talked to him about our child and financial issues. I would not meet any of the needs he had been enjoying having met by me. OW was not able to meet those needs, and the ones she was meeting were rapidly losing so much appeal. I exposed to his family and friends so the A just wasn't so great anymore. I counseled with Steve Harley by phone and had step by step help.

I am not you and I don't know enough about your situation, but I am concerned that yours was always a long distance M and he has always gotten many needs met in other ways, not just an A because you weren't together. Only YOU know what drew you together, what made the BOTH of you do so much to be together despite your circumstances, and only you know if that was based in reality or fantasy. If you did not have a child, I would tell you to cut your losses and move on. That may be your course anyway, but you will know what to do when you are ready. Until then, take care of yourself, think, pray, enjoy your child and your new life. I would Plan B if you are able to do at least a little Plan A without losing it. IT feels good to let off the steam, but you have to look longer term, and that is never good, even if he deserves it!

LucyLoo,

Just to be TOTALLY clear here - your husband has NO biblical grounds for divorce. YOU do by way of his adultery however.

His affair is 100% HIS fault not yours.

You both MAY have contributed to the state of your marriage pre affair but that doesn't make his poor choice defensible. He is not the victim here - you and your child are.

Please start reading up on this site - start with the infidelity FAQ's linked in my signature below.

Thank you so much. I am about to read the link. I have extensively read MB website, but there i still so much to read, and i think I need to get a copy of SSA.

Just to clarify, my H and I met in England while I was on a working holiday. We spent 12 months together as boy/girlfriend. Then I moved to my country while he finished uni. We spent the next 2 years on the phone every day and visited each other every 4 months til our wedding. We lived in England from the time we were married for 4 years. Then we decided to make a permanent move to my country which was always part of the plan. However, he sent me back for my brothers wedding last October and told me he would join me in January this year. When he did he was only here for 2 days when I found out about the affair and that night he flew home to England to be with his parents. He has now arrived back out here 3 weeks ago and has a little flat of his own. He visits our daughter a few times a week. So, all up, we've not lived together since October - 7 months, but we did spend our whole married life (4 years) living together.

He came over last night to see our baby and wanted to talk to me. He wants a definate answer about reconciliation from me now. As you said Anne6263, he has spent plenty enough time away from us. The problem is that I've not been able to put a Plan A into action because we've been apart for so long now. And the thought of having sex with him too much (this was the biggest problem he said). He also told me yesterday that if I'd given him a reason to not go through with our marriage, he probably wouldn't have, and said he married me because he didn't want to hurt me. I want to quote something he wrote me after we were married. it was an email he sent me while we were waiting for my marriage visa to come through so I could join him in England (we spent about a month apart after our wedding in waiting for it).

‘Each day I have this ache inside me, it is close to the feeling I get when I haven’t eaten in a long time or when I feel sick. Sometimes I will think about you and the memory is so real and vivid that I will look around almost expecting you to be there. I go to bed and imagine you being next to me and putting my arms around you, but your not there and that hurts. I am not the same person when you aren’t around, I’m grumpy, I’m moody, I’m unpleasant to be around and people notice that’.

Does that sound like a man that married me out of duty? I have to believe our love was real, though he keeps telling me otherwise. How can you write something like that and not be in love?

I don't know how I could implement Plan A when I am so angry with him and when I just don't even know that I want to save our marriage. I believe he wants an answer from me right now so he can get on with his life....and I believe part of that is bringing his girlfriend out here to join him. I don't feel ready to make a decision either way. I'm not ready to divorce him but I'm not ready to reconcile.

Lucy--he married you because he loved you--all his current talk is fog talk, rewriting history in order to justify the horrible things he has done. He didn't marry you out of duty. Put that out of your head right now. It is fog babble, treat it as such. In one ear and out the other.

Four years together is plenty, I feel I understand better now. You have a basis and plenty of memories of how much in love you were. What once was can be again, really and truly.

Indeed, I think you need to search your soul and decide to either commit to living out the vows you made or taking the biblical out that you have due to his adultery. Because you have a child, my personal opinion is that you should give it all you have. You CAN do this--so many of us have, it is possible. For me, it was with God's love--I couldn't have done it on my own. My family wanted me to divorce FWH so it was hard hanging on.

Pray for strength. Read all that you can on here. For me it came down to how big of a person am I? Am I a forgiving person in reality or is that just something I tell myself. Can I really love my H for better or worse, this being the worst (I hope), truly forgive? I didn't know, but I sure wanted to try. I wanted to be the hero of my own story. I wanted to be the kind of person who loves enough, close enough to unconditionally that I could get past the hurt and reconcile. But that is ME!

If you do decide to take him back, you MUST read SAA. Make sure there are boundaries--I think I outlined them before. NO contact, transparency from him, ablity to check on his actions/whereabouts to ensure NC, counseling with a pro-marriage source, his commitment to give it his all as well, follow MB concepts. If he waffles on that and keeps on with contact, it puts the future of the M in serious doubt. These WS who don't immediately stop the A are tough customers. ARe you tough? Can you go the distance? Can you love enough? Are you willing to do what it takes even if it is hard on you and is the biggest challenge of your life? What do you want to be able to tell your child down the road? These are the things I thought about. I can only give you my perspective, you are living your life and only you can know.

Thank you Anne. Can I ask, are you truly glad you chose to work at it? Was it really all worth it? Are things better now than you could ever have imagined? Is it something you eventually forget? Does it still cause problems? You sound very convicted in your decision and no doubt God gave you every strength.

I started self-harming in the first year of our marriage (but haven't done that now for 3 years) out of absolute frustration and self-hatred for the things that were going on between us. I'm scared in so many ways to try and make it work, but I too want to be the hero of my story. I want to say I loved unconditionally and i want to be able to tell my daughter one day I did all I could. I'm thinking of asking him if he wants to have some counselling with me. But do I tell him she has to be out of the picture? She is still in England so they have phone calls and send emails. He told me about 15 mins ago on the phone that he wasn't going to beg and crawl (believe me, he hasn't!).

In response to your last questions, again, NO contact. Your M doesn't have a chance if they continue to have contact. Trust me, if recovery happens it will be much much slower and with a lot of pain for you both. Ask him to give your M a REAL try. Commit to NC and prove it to you--no secrets, and counseling. Read up on Plan A and start doing it.

As to the first questions-yes, I am very glad I hung in there. My H has grown up alot, and to be honest, I made a lot of sorely needed changes in the ways I behaved toward him and in my own personality. I learned to love myself in this journey and that has helped me to then love him and my DD that much better.

The pain fades. YOu definitely can still be reminded of things, but again, I learned so much about living in today, cherishing my H for the good in him and not dwelling on his mistakes. I don't want him to dwell on mine either! Remember, I have been on this road for a long time. I think it is really about two years once NC has truly been established that things really start to feel good. BUT I also learned to notice and appreciate the little bits of progress we made along the way. You go up and down and around and around. One of us was always willing to stick around, usually when the other was ready to call it quits. Even if you do not end up married, you and he will have worked through some important emotional stuff that you will likely use in your life no matter what.

I just wanted to give an update on my situation and ask for thoughts. I’ve posted on another thread, but will keep it here instead.

As Anne said, because I found out about my H’s A 2 days after he immigrated to my country (after we’d been living in his for 4 years), we’ve had no home of our own….no established life of our own and therefore nothing that really gave us any reason to be together (well, didn’t give HIM any reason for us to be together). We’ve been living apart for 13 months and officially ‘separated’ due to discovery of his affair for 10.

In that time though he’s said he’s sorry, he’s shown no real remorse, hasn’t tried to fix anything with me, hasn’t shown that he cares in ANY way about me and has just been sitting back, continuing his affair long-distance, awaiting for me to put an official end to our marriage so he can quote ‘get on with his life with the person he loves’ and bring her out to my country to live happily ever after.

He just doesn’t CARE at all! I honesty believe if it wasn’t for our daughter, he’d never bother to contact me again. The only reason I hear anything from him is when he wants to organise to pick our daughter up for the day every weekend.

He’s asked me again a few weeks ago for a final decision about reconciliation. Said he thinks it’s probably time a decision was made so we could face the future with more certainty (i.e. so he can tell his girlfriend to come on over now he’s finally got his wife to do his dirty work and end the marriage).

Don’t most of you here at least have WS’s that make at least a tiny bit of effort to acknowledge your existence…which gives you some tiny hope? I thought my H’s A was devastating…but the way he’s treated me these past 10 months is the hardest thing of all. He just doesn’t care. Has never asked me a personal question, has never asked me how I am, has never asked how his daughter is, even when she’s sick. I mean, I know he loves her, loves spending time with her, but just doesn’t seem to even know how to think about anyone other than himself.

You’d think with his g/f on the other side of the world, that would give him the chance to stop and think about things, but all it seems to have done is confirm in his mind that he doesn’t love me and should never have married me.

I think I just feel numb.

So, my question…..I’m thinking of responding to his email, very nicely, not demanding in any way, but letting him know that I can’t make the decision. That he’s in 2 relationships and it needs to be HIM that decides which one to end. I don’t know why it’s taken me 10 months to figure out that it’s HIS decision, not mine, but oh well…better late than ever. I know he will HATE my response, because he wants to be able to always say I ended the marriage…and he’ll probably come back telling me that he’s already told me that he can’t be the one to end it because he doesn’t have that choice (but he said he wished he did). I feel like I don’t want to let him off the hook so easily…he did this to us and I want him to stop being a coward and trying to pin all the responsibility of it onto me.

Any advice?