One of my main LBs is AO. When my wife is angry, she is very "expressive", i.e. vocal. She also sometimes throws things, e.g. a book, or kicks over a chair, etc.

How do I set the right boundaries? What is the correct response in the moment, and after the fact?

Since I am a conflict avoider, I tend to do whatever it takes to keep the peace, stay out of the way, etc. After the fact, when she is calm, I don't discuss the problematic behavior.

Her yelling takes money out of your love bank and you need to protect that. Next time she yells, simply ask her to lower her voice so that y'all can discuss this issue. If she continues state "If you yell at me I will end this conversation and leave the room"... Then do it. And you never truly have to state that boundary again, simple take action whenever things escilate.


When the storms have calmed, YOU HAVE TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES. You cannot to continue to avoid it. If you have problems with communication, then pick up some books and learn healthy ways to deal with conflict. But you letting it fester in her never reaching conflict is simply lighting the fuse for her next explosion.

Intention! Good to see you...

I'm with LH...the boundary is around you...AOs aren't allowed...no rasied voice, thrown objects or slams...exactly what LH said.

I have a communication suggestion...a shared notebook...no CA's can do this, so you can really train yourself out of that habit.

You have a notebook...you write the date at the top...and every day, you write in it, then hand it to your wife...she writes in it...hands it back...you answer her or share more thoughts...back and forth, every day. Do this for one week...get into the rhythm of being safe. If she raises an issue in the notebook verbally, hold the boundary of the notebook...for one week.

Getting safe to communicate comes before communicating.

You can do this. Important to remain affectionate, present and attentive during this week...about all the functional stuff...no shared thoughts, feelings or beliefs outside of the notebook.

After the week, there is the listen and repeat exercises...which progress onward...toward great communication.

When I AO'd, I felt not heard...hence, increased the volume...I threw a plastic plate once...and it felt great...and scared me...still, I AO'd for years...you know what meant being heard to me? Feed back. Acknowledgement. Oh, and I wanted my H to hear my pain AND feel it. You can definitely acknowledge and validate...say her pain/anger/frustration is heard...you don't have to feel it. It's hers.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Thanks for the suggestions. We actually had a shared notebook a long time ago. I ended up doing all the entries. Since English is her second language, she had an easy excuse not to keep writing. But I'll make the offer again.

We are in a good place right now, which is a great feeling. But I have learned from the past, that being in a good place is the right time to take stock and really improve, not simply rest and wait for the next blowup.

Did you get "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud & Townsend?

I forgot if I asked you already.

And have you two talked about why she believes she does AOs?

LA

Hi LA <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You did not yet ask me about that book, but it sure sounds relevant so I'll definitely check it out.

No, we have not talked about AOs. There are no debriefs. Just a shy apology from her usually the next day. Then I'm happy the conflict is over so I move on and never stop to dig into the why. Shame on me, I know. I need to grow a spine...

What if it a "spine" has nothing to do with it?

Hmmm?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Well that is possible of course. But I really feel that I am responsible for being more of a leader in the relationship. I really want to invest now while the "weather" is fine, so that when the storm comes, I am fully prepared and have my action plan set up in advance. But I have known this for years and still have chosen not to put it into action. So that is why I think I need to step up, grow a spine and do what I know is the right thing.

I'm all for you investing, not conflict avoiding and being open and honest.

Absolutely.

I am asking for your intent, intention...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You knew I'd get around to that...

And for it to be to stand up for yourself, get a spine, stop being woosy...all those negative things...where the intent beckoning you is not from fear, but from love...

You intent is to be true...to yourself, whom you've betrayed for years of conflict avoidance...and to your marriage. You're in an equal partnership...your boundaries are around you...not her. She owns her behavior...and your pursuit of better communication sans AOs and UFOs...well, is to the same intent, isn't it?

Have you considered gently and firmly not accepting her apology the next day? When this occurs, to be prepared for a great round of Intention Honesty 101? How it feels, where you fear, how the repetition matters, the sorries don't heal it anymore because of the re-enactment?

Whatever you have in those day-after rhythms, you're right, you can change it...now. How about doing some of the communication exercises in the books? I know "Fighting for Your Marriage" by Markman, Peck & Bloomberg have some good ones...and yes, they include "intent."

Calling your name, Int...

LA

Yes, you have a way of cutting to the chase. I respect and admire your wisdom a great deal.

My intent is to contemplate myself surrounded by the conditions that I intend to create. And yes, that includes being true to myself for a decade of self-betrayal. I'm glad you pointed that out. It is liberating. More actionable than "improve communication in my marriage".

I had never considered not accepting her apology. That is an interesting approach. I'd have to reconcile that with what I read in the bible (which I use as my main guide for living) where I am told to forgive as I have been forgiven. I don't mean to start a thesis on the nature of forgiveness...

I will start those communication exercises again, and will persist through the resistance because I intend for them to succeed.

Thanks for calling me out!

It is sooooo simple. You simply walk up to her and gently wrap your arms around her. "Say, I love you. Everything is going to be ok." Kiss her cheek or stroke her hair. She will melt before the argument escalates; then you can talk about the problem in a calm manner.

Well, I'm not so sure it is all that simple! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But it is worth a try. I have to care about her enough to overcome my resentment of her behavior by replacing (a) the desire to walk away with scorn and contempt on my face, with (b) loving behavior when I'm not feeling loving at all.

How's that for a run-on sentence!

See, this is where I learn, Intention...

Why MB is mutual, always.

"I had never considered not accepting her apology. That is an interesting approach. I'd have to reconcile that with what I read in the bible (which I use as my main guide for living) where I am told to forgive as I have been forgiven. I don't mean to start a thesis on the nature of forgiveness..."

Now, I did much better with this a couple of years ago with a coworker...who would take his frustrations out on other coworkers and then apologize. I had the nerve to say, after the fifth apology,

"It's like this...you go home and beat your wife. Then you apologize. Do you think this solves it? Because you're still beating your wife."

Now...believe it or not, this was just my frustrated truth, told calmly...because I really like this fellow, human to human. This was something he did...and his father worked at the company and I saw him do it, as well. Not often, but five or six times a year.

He was stunned. He knew the bible...repent AND SIN NO MORE. There are three legs to forgiveness...first, the owning, then the intent to not do it anymore...conscious commitment...then the other's forgiveness comes in the amends...seeing conscious intent in action. You have one leg missing...or not. Maybe you've had many conversations which didn't end up on AOs in between these AOs? If not, understand that not accepting an apology is NOT rejecting the person...just that action.

See, first, I AO'd because I had a right to express...after finding MB and Dr. Harley, I didn't have that right anymore...and realized I wasn't expressing...so, I apologized, sincerely, to WH (at the time) and committed to sin no more. Then I did again two months later...and then six months later...there was progress. Recognition. Yes, I did again, but without permission...and none since then. Might be one in a year...without permission...progress, yes, forgiveness, but not before ownership.

My coworker has not had an AO to me in two years. Not from fear, but realization. He never wanted to beat his wife...and he now says, when stress escalates, "I'm really feel pressured right now" and I comply immediately...his signal...I don't take offense if what he's requesting isn't in soothing form...I know how hot he could get. And he knows he's okay to signal instead of AO.

Now, here's the part where forgiveness is really important to me, personally. I know this and use this with my DH; my kids; my coworkers...yet I can't get this into my head with my parents. What if there is no second leg? Or first?

Shrink said, then you choose to forgive and not allow them to continue to harm you...that's self-betrayal. Sound anything like what is in your head?

I am grateful for this being my last, vast frontier...oh yeah, until I hit the next one, right?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Good stuff LA. I really love the way you challenge me to think in new ways that I have not previously considered. It seems like the water that is necessary for growth. I'm getting a lot of water - now its time to grow!

I had a small victory last night, where a question to my wife, was perceived by her to be mean. I did not immediately apologize but gently and firmly said "No, it was a question. It was not mean." She tried to pick a fight over it but I refused to take the bait. She started to sulk for a while but then recovered and we had a great evening.

This might seem really trivial, but for me it is huge. This is the first step in ending my own self-deception.

Try to look at it from a clinical perspective.

We do this with my 93 year-old MIL--she has Alzheimer's. The only thing that works like a charm.

AO's get hardwired into the brain--the brain literally 'learns' to have more of them by actually having them.

With this method you are not only retraining the brain to stop having AOs but you actually heat-up another part of the brain. It is used with special-needs kids all the time. (I had one of those too).

Other methods work but not as quickly or effectively.

If you choose a) "the desire to walk away with scorn and contempt on my face" what is likely to happen? She will follow you to be heard and her anger will escalate and become further entrenched into her axon tissue. The next time she is triggered there'll be no stopping those neuro-chemicals from doing their dirty deed.

Wow. So I respond to my W as if she were an Alzheimer's patient or a special needs child. I don't mean any DJ by that. It is actually quite liberating. And your reasoning makes perfect sense. I can't wait to try it out!

Pieta has great suggestions...really widens my brain. I got the physical information of a hug and acceptance part of her suggestion right away. And it struck me, like a trigger, that is exactly what I longed for my H to do when I had those short-circuits...AO's felt good...before the crash of shame...and I can see how I trained my brain. Reversing it was easier, though, by changing my permissions...not to suppress, but for congratulating myself each time I did not AO...held the respect line...and did a lot of deep breathing.

What I was facing was losing my marriage, so God brought this change to me when I didn't have the option of "feeling good" through AO's...for me, it was what I needed, when I needed it. I think your start, your step in saying, "No" was awesome.

Changing the dance, Int...more of God's gorgeous design, don't you think? Changing you changes everything...tiny stuff matters. You're doing great!

LA