wow.. thanks yearsofhurt. What you said makes a lot of sense.
I did the calculator you mentioned and it came out with a little over $400, (and I don't think I put in as much as he really makes, and overestimated the amount of time he would want custody of the kids)

He has threatened to divorce me in the past. And even while he did that would try to guilt trip me. Saying things like, "If you take everything you are entitled to I could be out on the street pushing a cart, why are you trying to be like that?!" "why can't you be reasonable?" "The courts could leave me with as little as $40 a month to live on if you try to take everything that CA says you can take" "Why would you want to do that to me?" and on and on...

Right now don't worry about the amount of time he wants the kids. It is not based on that. It is based on what you have been doing up until this point. Lawyer will explain.

I am a man just to let you know and I want as much custody of my children as I can get not because of the lower child support but because I am very active in their day to day lives now and always have been. Because of that I will get more custody.

Most men however will push for the max so they can pay less then they will not take the kids that much.(one of the lawyers words not mine) Custody is based on what is better for the kids.


I am always the one that talks straight about the BS the WS dish out. There are consequences for his actions if he choses to keep ruining your marriage then so be it. If he has $40 a month and a ralphs cart for transportation that is not your problem.

Then tell him "I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT TO YOU, YOU ARE DOING IT TO US"

I now have to do what is best for me and the kids and if that causes you discomfort I am sorry. You know there is a solution here you can re commit to our marriage cut out the A's and we can live happily ever after. Just a thought.

He has threatened to divorce me in the past. And even while he did that would try to guilt trip me. Saying things like, "If you take everything you are entitled to I could be out on the street pushing a cart, why are you trying to be like that?!" "why can't you be reasonable?" "The courts could leave me with as little as $40 a month to live on if you try to take everything that CA says you can take" "Why would you want to do that to me?" and on and on...

He's trying to take a problem HE created, and blame you for it. Don't let him.

"Well I suppose you should have thought about that before you started running around with other women. I can't believe you are trying to blame me for it" - then laugh, and say "I can't believe the stuff you come up with sometimes.............. trying to blame me for your own poor choiices."

If you are really feeling good.......... add this at the end "You are a real peice of work, you know that?" then laugh again as you walk away.

SS

I am sure he can guess that I am feeling this way. We have skated up to the edge of divorce SEVERAL times in the last few years, but neither one of us seems to be ready to take the final step. I think he is expecting this to blow over the way it normally does. If I actually DO follow through, I think he will be shocked as [email]h@ll.[/email]

You are so right.., it's NOT my problem. He just tries to turn it around and say that the reason I would "do that to him" is further evidence of how mean I have been in our marriage and how I want to just do this to be vindictive.

lol.. I would love to do that!

Well that is fine someone needs to start somewhere.

Are you in Plan A? Is there NC?

You should try to work things out don't get me wrong but sometimes it is necessary to give it a kick start.

This may be his wake up call.

He does have a choice to commit to making this work with you and only you.

Isn't that what marriage is supposed to be anyway.

I was just catching up on your thread, and when I saw this:



I was horrified! I don't think you are really interested in that, I certainly hope not. Your life has more value then that! Is that the lesson you would want to teach your kids?

You are getting a lot of great feedback here. let me just encourage you, again, to get that appointment with the lawyer going. You have a lot of questions to ask right now. You need to get the real advice from a real professional (not just litening to your WH talk about how he refuses to pay alimony)

Like I said before, your friends, and family, including your WH wil have all sorts of advice for you. Best thing you can do is spend an hour with a lawyer asking all the tough questions.

It doesn;t mean you have to file. It just means that you want to know your options.

One more thing - in case no one else has said this to you yet - Do NOT move out of the house. if anyone is going to move out - let it be him. Let him owrry about finding an affordable apartment in So Cal.

One more piece of advice before you go to the lawyer have a specific list of questions written down with room to write his answers under it.

Also have a calendar with time frames of significant events.

You will need to be very specific about your day to day activities with the kids. IE who picks them up who drops them off. Doctor appointments etc. Who has been primary caretaker.

Be prepared before you go.

We have not even talked about what I found. But we both know I found something.. that I know something. I have tried plan A in the past. Never tried plan B...

Do you think I should let him know that I am going to do this, or have done it?(talk to a lawyer)

(((tiredinCA))) Hi! I just wanted to offer 2 cents toward divorce linguistics for lack of a better word. There are also books on it for how to organize for it - etc.
I split with my first husband, our son was 2 at the time which made that end of it convenient because he doesn't remember. When I knew it was pretty much over I stashed as much cash as I could in as little time as possible. I worked for tips so that was helpful. I would suggest you do this before ending it if possible - that will alleviate some of your financial concerns or at least ease them.

As far as how the divorce is structured - consider a mediator in lieu of an attorney as they would be less expensive. Also, try to look at everything "fairly" and objectively as possible. Do you have the right to take him to the cleaners? yes....Is that really going to solve anything? No....Try to at least make it win/win on your end - I know that won't always work if both sides won't play fair.

As for the kids - consider counseling for them. It is a tough time to be a teenager and its no wonder kids are so upset these days. As far as telling them about the father - my sister has made it a policy that she will inform her kids when they are 18. I think that is wise - they have a better objective at that time - and it gives you both time to clear your head.

I wish you the best - kick him to the curb! And, there is a book by Dr. Gray (can't remember the title) but its about recoverying from divorce. A lot of good info in there. Take care!

Do you think I should let him know that I am going to do this, or have done it?(talk to a lawyer)

From watching it play out (reading this forum) a number of times, I think see the lawyer first. If you warn him, he has time to start hiding and or changing things. Get all that you need and file. Then see what happens.

You can always stop it if you want to.

Just be prepared for a madman - the WS often becomes that when they realize they are not going to have their cake, and eat it too.

SS

Later edit -
This presupposes you have made your final decision. If you are still wondering, keep gathering info - but don't clue him in on it. See the lawyer and find out what your options are.

I wait tables part time.... so I see what you mean.. if I pinch my pennies, I could put some money away for the next 6 months or so.. I just am a little afraid that if I don't do something while I am pumped up, that I will just fall back into our normal routine...

What do you mean? (I can guess.. but what are you imagining he would act like? I know you don't know HIM... but your best guess...

What do you mean?

Threats
Hiding assets
Filing first - pre-emptive strike.
Name calling
Sometimes physical abuse
Throwing things
Breaking things
Refusing to pay his fair share - even if court ordered.


That's why it's good to be totally ready.

You know him - we don't
What is likely?

SS

I would visit the lawyer once, before you talk to your H about it. Again, please remember, that you are not going to the laywer to file for D. You are just going to ask legal questions. That is all. You just want to know the facts for now.

In my personal opinion - if you do decide to file for D, then I would le thim know first. I don't see any point in filing secretly, and having him served.

Let me tell you how my first appointment went.

My WxH kept making threats to me about how he was going to get the kids 50 percent of the time, they would be forced to stay with him and OW at her apartment, in a city that was an hour from their school, he was not going to pay me child support, blah blah blah. All just words - meant to scare me. I am not sure why he wanted to scare me - I was all ready devastated when he left me and moved in with OW and her kids. But still he would make threats to me that I had better give him what he wants, not make anything tough for him, or he would "take me to court"

I finally got up enough nerve to make an appoitment with a lawyer. I took my best friend along for moral support!

it turned out to be very simple, and not at all scary. the lawyer asked me questions like do you own a house together, what type of retirment plan does he have, have I been working the whole time, how many kids,etc.
while she was asking her questions, I, in turn asked my own.
By the way - I live in Oregon.
She said that it is all very straight forward. In my case - I have always worked full time, so alimony was not an option. If I had worked part time, she would have asked for alimony. child support guidelines are set by the state. You go to the child support calculator, put in his income, my income, and the child support is set. period. WxH could not fight it. IF he had fought for more visitation with the boys, then his support would have been adjusted accordingly (IF he had the boys with him for more time, then he would pay less support)
all of our debts were split in half. All of our assets were split in half. period.
IF either of us had fought any of this - if either of us had said "I want more" then there would have been some type of fight. But there really is no reason to fight. the rules are really simple. If he had said "I don't want to give up half of our assets" then there would have been a fight. But ultimately, he would have lost. because the rules are very simple.

also - my lawyer said that in our case, there was no reason to file secretly, and then have him served. She suggested that I let him know I was filing, and that once the paper work had been filed, he could go into her office to sign for the papers. That way he did not have to be 'embarassed" by getting served at work, in front of his friends. he liked that idea just fine. He was able to pick up the papers at her office, look them over, and he saw that I was not trying to "take him to the clearners". he saw that I was just asking for what was covered in the state guidelines.

all of this talk about "take him to the cleaners" or "screw him" - the reality is, that the guidelines are simple, and there really is little room for negotiating. if he gets stupid - and wants to fight you - he will pay an attorney, who will most likely tell him what the end result is going to be anyway.

At least make that first appointment. and feel free to ask them "how much is this going to cost me?"

I would NEVER try to do any of this without the advice of a lawyer. Never. My lawyer was able to anticipate things that I would never have thought of. when you are in this position, you are so vulnerable. After years of his infidelity, your self-esteem is gone. you need someone to stand next to you and say "this is how it works".

Seeing a lawyer does not mean you are going to "fight for D". it does not mean you are trying to screw him. it just means that right now, you are too emotional, and you need the advice of a professional.

I suspect that right now, if you tell your WH that you are planning to talk to a lawyer, he is going to freak out, scream at you, and make you feel bad. he is going to tell you that he is going to take the kids away, he will never pay you alimony, etc.
You need to see the lawyer first, so you know your rights, and can answer his fears, calmly.

persoanlly, I do not know why people wait so long before they finally just make that appointment, and see a lawyer for a 1 hour consultation. People come here for days, asking stuff like "what if....". 1 hour with a lawyer will give you the real scoop, from someone who knows the law in your state. Getting that 1 hour consultation does not mean that you are suddenly going to have a $5000 lawyer bill!
It just means you are spending 1 hour finding out what your options are. That is it.

you can do this. I know it is scary right now. but later you will say to me "WOF - you were right, it was no big deal, and I am so glad I did it"

Do not tell him if you really intend on going through with it. If it is over then go and start wihtout him knowing.
You will have to pay the filing fees though if you start it.

Most Lawyers in So CAl want a 4k retainer though so be prepared.

Be careful with stashing money though unless you are absolutely sure it is untraceable. The courts here do not look kindly on that. Give it to a friend if you have to do it do not open up a bank account. It can and will be traced to you if it gets ugly.

He will try to wear me down with promises of change.. or guilt tripping me about all the things I do and have done to mess up this marriage, or guilt trip me endlessly about what this would do to the kids. He will try to make me feel like I am never going to find another man if I left him, and that he is better than nothing. (if I think of more I'll add them...)

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> We have some money saved up. Do I have the right to use it for this? I know this sounds stupid, but say we have $10,000 in the bank, can I tell him I am taking $4000 for my lawyer, grab $4000 for yourself and meet you in the courtroom? Can he stop me from using our money for a lawyer? Or do I need to save up... (I know I sound like a moron.. and these are the questions I should ask the lawyer.. )