Ok, Monday night wife and I had a very good heart to heart. She said that she is committed and will try to transfer to another school. She recieved a call at home from her union rep concerning her transfering to another building within the school district, so she is actually looking and trying.

We've had a couple really nice days, but last night my MIL called and invited my wife to go to the Virgin Islands with MIL, FIL and FIL's single (younger 48) friend. I asked if she was actually considering going and she said that she was. It was a cheap vacation (parents would pay for hotel and travel). My MIL claims she wants my wife to go so she has someone to hang out with, but I was livid. I took a walk to calm down, but unfortunately it didn't help.

The short version is that I told my wife that I "hated" my MIL and that she should tell my MIL how I felt.

We fought, she said that I hadn't changed and that I was insanely jealous. I tried to explain that it was just plain inappropriate for a married person to go on a vacation with another couple (even your parents) and their single friend. My wife didn't get it (ok, no surprise there, but she was starting to get some of it (changing jobs, wanting to save the marriage, etc . . .).

I think my comments about my MIL were harsh and extreme and have most likely set us back. I'm not sure how to handle this. I made a huge deal about something that most likely won't even happen. I doubt my FIL would be willing to pay for my wife to go to the Virgin Islands with them.

Please, if you're going to respond with this is the same old same old from me, please don't bother. I want to save my marriage. I do not want to be a doormat or be in a marriage where my wife shows me no respect. I'm looking for help and input that will help me save my marriage. My point is, she was starting to get it, maybe only slightly, but for the first time in over a year, I saw a little spark in my wife that I haven't seen in a long time. Can I repair the damage I did with my comments about my MIL. Should I just not say anything and see how bad things are when I get home. Should I send an email apologizing??

Ok, I couldn't wait, so I just sent my wife the following email. Now you can beat me up!!!!

Dear Wife,

I just wanted to apologize for how I behaved last night. I should have handled things differently and I am working very hard on changing this aspect of my personality. It’s not that I don’t want you going any where; I just think that your parents should have invited both of us, not just you.

If you think we can afford it and it is something you really want to do, than you should go. I would prefer that if we have vacation money to spend, that we spend it together and on each other.

More importantly, I want to apologize for the comments I made about and concerning your mom. While I could make excuses for why I said what I said, it still wouldn’t make it right.

I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

GTO

grovetuck..

ofcourse you MUST apologize...it's a horrible thing to say....and even if true it causes nothing but strife to your wife...

you told her you HATE her mother...what in GODS name is she supposed to do about that....

that's your issue...

what's your plan to fix that issue...

you claim your wife shows you no respect...and she may not...
but
then you turning around doing the same thing fixes nothing....

if the trips cheap why not BOTH go !!

why not offer your wife an alternate trip with the two of you...

why not come up with a plan that shows your wife you can learn to respect your MIL...

start with apologizing
start speaking the pain you felt about your wife going away with out you...without using words like no other person goes away without their spouse....

you left your wife no choice but to have to defend her mother and the trip....


that should not be your goal...

ARK

Thanks ARK, I know, I feel horrible and realize that I left her no other choice but to defend herself and her mother.

I have given some thought about talking to my MIL, but I wasn't sure if it would do any good and it could blow up in my face. So I've tried to avoid my MIL and just be nice to her when she is around.

why not go with her and you pay for the two of you...

I don't think you should talk to your MIL...big talks never go as planned...

BUT \
in action you can begin to show your wife

make plans like hey why not invite your MIL and FIL over this sunday for dessert....

and BE NICE!!!!!

buy her a flower for her garden...etc..

Actions man ACTIONS!!!!!

ARK

Grove, Grove, Grove . . .

That email just spells out why your wife acts the way she does.

She does something selfish and stupid but manages to make YOU apologize for it.

Unless and until you learn to stop fearing her anger and her threats to leave, you are not going to get anywhere. She knows this and she knows exactly how to manipulate you with it. It works every time and it worked again this time.

Are you aware of the MB concept of Radical Honesty (RH)?

***I just wanted to apologize for how I behaved last night.***

IMO, the only thing you have to apologize for is saying that you "hated" her mother - assuming that's not really true. Otherwise, you have NOTHING to apologize for. Read on.

***I should have handled things differently and I am working very hard on changing this aspect of my personality.***

Therefore, there's no reason for HER to change any aspect of her personality. Whew! What a relief.

On the other hand, I do agree that you should have handled things differently. You should have been HONEST with her - RADICALLY HONEST - instead of kowtowing to her once again and telling her what you think she wants to hear.

***It’s not that I don’t want you going any where***

That's not true, Grove. Of course you don't want her going anywhere *without you,* because you don't trust her. And because it is very hurtful to you to think that your wife is happy to go off and enjoy a vacation without you, especially when things are in need of care and protection right now - not further neglect.

***I just think that your parents should have invited both of us, not just you.***

Yes! So stop apologizing for feeling this way! Stop Apologizing!!!

***If you think we can afford it and it is something you really want to do, than you should go.***

NO NO NO. Is this really how you feel? See "Radical Honesty," above. If you don't stop telling her what she wants to hear so she won't be mad at you - much less telling her flat-out lies like this one -- you will NEVER GET ANYWHERE WITH HER.

***I would prefer that if we have vacation money to spend, that we spend it together and on each other.***

Of course! Again - Stop Apologizing For This!

***More importantly, I want to apologize for the comments I made about and concerning your mom. While I could make excuses for why I said what I said, it still wouldn’t make it right.***

You can apologize if you were mean or rude or if you don't really hate her mother. But do NOT apologize for telling her that her mother's actions felt like a huge slap in the face to you and to your marriage.

I take it the "single friend" is a male? So, let's get this straight - MIL wants to fix up her darling daughter, your wife, with a nice single guy on a cruise while you stay home and babysit, and YOU are apologizing to HER???

***I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.***

I'd put one of those eye-roll thingies here, but that wouldn't be very nice.

Grove - search this site for the Policy of Radical Honesty. Right now, I think that policy would help you more than anything.
Mulan

Mulan...

here's how I see it..

MIL can offer the moon and sky and a pizza pie...

whatever...

it has nothing to do with the MIL's or OM or anyones elses offers...

it ALL has to do with the wife's response...

if radical honesty had anything to do with telling a spouse you HATE their mother...

I'm jumping ship....faster than the rats...

and mulan don't you think the bigger picture of real recovery...is NOT that I don't want you going anywhere without me cause I don't trust you...
but
I don't want you going anywhere with out me cause I LOVE YOU and want to be with you???

ps mulan..you took a hard hit a few weeks ago....and i just wanted to say...it wasn't deserved....but it was and is pointless to go with there with it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />...but know that I thought it was a silly silly thing to say at best...and I for one am sorry that it was said.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

ark

Mulan, Great points and I wish I would have thought of them before I rushed into sending the email.

Now what??? Talk to her tonight and say, you know that email I sent, well I wasn't completely honest . . .

Ark, thanks I agree about my MIL. No I don't hate her, but she has caused a great deal of stress and problems in our marriage.

Mulan, you've followed my situation, do you agree that her decision to transfer is good news and maybe opens the door to a possible recovery or am I just seeing what I want to see?

Mulan, this is excellent advice for anyone who is a CA. Unfortuantely I fell into this many times during my M and have only recently started to change. Appeasement benefits no one.


I agree...no need to apologize for how you feel


More good advice.

***Mulan, you've followed my situation, do you agree that her decision to transfer is good news and maybe opens the door to a possible recovery or am I just seeing what I want to see?***

At this point, I really don't know. It sure doesn't seem to jive with her letting her own mother fix her up with a nice single guy on a cruise.

I do know that WS always do what they want to do anyway, but might spin it to make you *think* it's somehow being done for you.

In other words, maybe she wants to transfer schools anyway - maybe OM is transferring and she's just following him - but she's letting you *think* she's doing it for little ol' you. See what I mean?

I'm sorry to be so horribly cynical. It's just the result of long and bitter experience. Your wife may very well have positive reasons for transferring, but please keep your eyes wide open.
Mulan

Mulan,

I think she is transferring because I exposed the affair when I showed up at the school and found her talking to the OM in the parking lot. Since I "kind of" made a scene, I think most people at the school are aware of the affair. I know she now leaves immediately after school, whereas she used to hang around for a half hour or so. I think she is embarrassed and wants out of there.

She'll claim it has nothing to do with the affair and everything to do with my "making a scene".

Of course now she says she is transferring for me and us.

As for the vacation thing. I think my concern is that I jumped the gun here. Right now they are just talking, I should have waited until the actually started planning the trip. I got upset about something that might happen and that she would even entertain the idea.

Ok, I know you don't agree with my email and I agree with your points. What would you do now?

***I think she is transferring because I exposed the affair when I showed up at the school and found her talking to the OM in the parking lot. Since I "kind of" made a scene, I think most people at the school are aware of the affair. I know she now leaves immediately after school, whereas she used to hang around for a half hour or so. I think she is embarrassed and wants out of there.***

GOOD! She is SUPPOSED to be embarrased about being caught cheating. This is why exposure works! Good for you!

***She'll claim it has nothing to do with the affair and everything to do with my "making a scene".***

If she had not chosen to cheat on you, you would never have "made a scene", now, would you? Let her say what she wants. You both know the truth.

***Of course now she says she is transferring for me and us.***

Well - at least the mouth is saying the right things. Let's see if the brain follows. Sometimes it does. But be careful.

***As for the vacation thing. I think my concern is that I jumped the gun here. Right now they are just talking, I should have waited until the actually started planning the trip. I got upset about something that might happen and that she would even entertain the idea.***

Well, of course you did. You have no reason to trust her to make a good decision regarding the state of your marriage. There is nothing wrong with telling her that the very idea of her leaving you at home to babysit while she goes on a cruise with her parents and a single guy who just happens to be invited too is absolutely stomach-turning to you.

Because it is.

***Ok, I know you don't agree with my email and I agree with your points. What would you do now?***

Heck if I know. I'm the biggest MB loser there is, doncha know that? But if you're asking me, I'd say that what she does about this cruise will speak volumes.

And where is OM these days? Does she have any contact with him at all?
Mulan

Well they are still working together, but my wife says that she avoids him like the plague (because of what I did - acting like a Neanderthal). I've had someone watching to see if they walk out together and so far they haven't. I have no idea what is going on inside the school. She claims absolutely nothing. I don't completely believe her, but I do think that she is concerned about other people talking/gossiping.

My problem isn't what I said, but how I said it. I allowed my emotions and mouth to get carried away. I lost an opportunity to explain my position in a cool and rational manner.

How are you doing these days???

Heck if I know. I'm the biggest MB loser there is, doncha know that? But if you're asking me, I'd say that what she does about this cruise will speak volumes.

mulan..did you see my ps to you...

don't give that issue a second of second of a thought...

there is NO point.
none...

ARK

ark^^ - I'm not even sure what you're referring to - the opinion I posted was the conclusion I came to myself long ago. But thanks for the kind words.

Grove, sorry for the brief threadjack. Please let us know what happens on the cruise.
Mulan

I think you need to politely tell your GWW that her trip is not an appropriate thing for a married person to do and coupled with the A it is certainly not the time to even be suggesting spending nights apart. Check in the MB literature... Dr. Harley talks about this.
You need to say this is NOT something that you would enthusiatically agree to. Seperate vacations are not a good idea and certainly when there is a single person of the opposite sex going with a person that has had problems setting appropriate boundries.
As far as your MIL... she soes not command respect unless she earns it. Her invitation... if she is aware of your W's affair... is disrespectful to you. You need to stand your ground.

Hi Grove, I haven't replied to your posts before but I know you've been around here for quite some time.

Maybe one of the hardest things when transitioning from currently betrayed spouse to recovering spouse, is to start following all ten of Harley's basic concepts in your everyday life, the point is to get in the habit of employing the basic concepts, because they work.

If you don't have a workable list of the basic concepts we can and should start a thread on working the basic concepts.

You could have avoided the email apology by not having done anything to apologize for. Darn! Having an Angry Outburst, (AO) (Concept: Avoiding Angry Outbursts), weakened your position.

I may have you confused with another couple but doesn't your wife post here sometimes. If she's who I think she is, she's very weak and wishy-washy still about her affair. (That's a little irritating to me, so I imagine it's pretty tough for you to swallow regularly). She needs you to take a control and make a stand for a great marriage and recovery, and you hedge your bets to delivering a knock-your-socks-off marital experience by following every single one of the ten basic concepts. There's no way anyone can be married to anyone while following the basic concepts and not be in a state of present bliss, in spite of the past.

You are showing her all your worst traits, which is completely understandable, but so not in your best interest.

First of all, the separate vacation with or without a male guest along, is a HORRIBLE idea. Pfft <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> on that.

Not only that, but it demonstrates that after all this time on the boards you haven't started using the POJA? Why, is it because she isn't excited about it? (Concept: The Policy of Joint Agreement) In my opinion, before you make a habit of POJA, there's no need to POJA making it a habit. The spouse who wants to have a good marriage just starts following the harley concepts by themselves.

You have to show by example the value-add it delivers to her life, as well as yours. Once she begins to see the pattern of how much value it adds to your everyday quality of life, she will likely get on board, unless she is so withdrawn from the relationship that she can't find the path back.

That's why we call it "being a lighthouse", the damage a wayward spouse does to themselves puts them in such a dark place they can only grope in the dark.

By virtue of the fact of your own virtue you are not as damaged as the wayward spouse (imo), and that's why it takes a very strong betrayed spouse to light the path back to the marriage.

Another thing your post clearly shows me is that you are disrespectfully judging her. When you decide why she makes a decision instead of communicating honestly with her about the fact that you feel or fear that she is making a decision based on something that she says otherwise, you are DJing her. (Concept: avoid Disrespectful Judgements)

Right now, it's true, she may be, could be, is probably? foggy. But no matter, to avoid disrespectfully judging and she will feel she cannot be RADICALLY HONEST with you, because you don't "listen", and you don't believe her.

Not only that but you turn around yourself and conflict avoid by habit rather than practicing Radically Honesty. (Concept: Radical Honesty)

Instead of an angry outburst that makes you look like 1) a crazy person, 2) someone she wants to avoid, and makes you look like you are 3) disrespecful to someone she loves, 4) unattractive,

It would be better if you will eliminate your habitual conflict avoidance which will help you avoid angry outbursts, and practice being honest with her by describing to her how it makes you feel when she considers taking a trip without you.

Because I'm betting that you were not really angry with her mother, but that you are really angry with your wayward wife who still has not made the commitments it takes to recover this marriage.

As soon as she gets her new job, I'll start calling her formerly wayward, and I'll be the first to welcome you to the RECOVERY BOARD.

Take care.

Here is my WW reply to my "apology" email. I'm not sure how or if I want to apply. For the first time I have something directly from her to post. I look forward to everyone's input.
_______________________________________________

GTO,

I just read your email. You, of course are always invited. Your job doesn't give you your summers off. I, on the other hand, do have my summers off. If you can get the time off--then by all means--go. But then we would have to pay for our own room and it would no longer be a "bargain" So , I guess i can suffer and not go on trips because you can't. You know GTO, if the shoes were on the other foot, I would encourage you to go, its not often in your life you get A CHANCE TO visit and experience different places. Its sad that you don't or wouldn't want that for me and your daughter. Your insecurities punish all of us--not just you.

Wife
________________________________________________

I'll think about this and write when I'm not feeling so angry at the utter selfishness of people who engage in affairs.

How typical to project her selfishness on to you.

The cost of the trip to your marriage, if she goes alone, makes the trip no bargain. If she wasn't so untrustworthy as to have engaged in lies, deceit, and the affair, I'm certain you wouldn't have a problem with insecurity. Her failure to protect her marriage and family has damaged and punished you all as well, and it's time for that to stop.

I think this is a golden opportunity to teach her and put into practice the Policy of Joint Agreement.