Hurting, you ask:



I agree wholeheartedly with Comfortably Numb.

Your former H is dead and gone. The OW does not have your former H. He is not the same with her as he was with you. You are right. He is now whatever a WH is and none of that is GOOD...It is NASTY and UGLY. You already have experienced that. That's why it's necessary to be away from the WS. Who knows what their interaction looks and what there relationship is all about with the OW..but it is NOTHING like yours was and never will be....the stories that I have heard about my FWH's experiences are unbelievable..incredible..and he says that there are things that I never need to know for fear that I could not love him anymore...I shudder to think about what he is referring to....

Even though my H and I are happily reconciled and RECOVERING..NOT FULLY RECOVERED...he is not the same man, husband or father that he was..he came back wounded and broken and continues his healing..in many ways, he is better..but only because of the trauma he has experienced (not wanting to relive that experience again) and the work he has done..even though, the basic features of his personality are there....HE IS DEFINITELY NOT THE SAME PERSON...nor am I..I am a lot stronger and have loads more self-confidence..one of his most important differences is that HE KNOWS THAT I CAN AND WILL MAKE IT WITHOUT HIM IF I CHOSE TO DO SO...in the past, he took me granted..took our R for granted, especially during his cake-eating...NEVER MORE....NEVER MORE...

CN,

Thas a good idea, I will try that. Not sure its gonna bring me to light bulb moment but it may help see through my own fog...

Your right I don't see him being resurrected anytime soon if ever.... He is gone thats for sure......

Sometimes I think a death w ould have been easier to deal with, then at least you know they didn't leave on purpose... I don't wish him dead at all but as long as he is living and breathing I will always w onder what if......


Hurting

Mimi,

Iread your post after posting this..... your probably right he will never be te same again. I do hope for his sake he beocmes a better man with or without me in his life. He is a shell of a man right now, miserable and trying to convince himself and everyone else he is happy...

If nothing else i have shown him I can do it on my own. I have been for the last 10 months now.... Working two jobs but I am making it.... I don't ask him for anyting and never will again, I just want what the court says is mine.... and I have to be honest alimony is one thing I am wanting and think I deserve. He needs to pay for all my years of being a faithful and loyal wife..... Vindictive maybe, but reality yup it sure is ...... me moving away from his cake eating ways another reality .... I won't be used by him anymore.... I won't ease his pain or confussion any longer.. he is on his own now .......

Hurting

Post deleted by mimi1254

I di Mimi and I added to my post

"Sometimes I think a death w ould have been easier to deal with, then at least you know they didn't leave on purpose... I don't wish him dead at all but as long as he is living and breathing I will always w onder what if......"

Many BS feel this way. Death is (sometimes) very quick and always quite final. The death of your H would hurt, but if it wasn't a suicide, you know that your H didn't do it to reject you. I think that the rejection, especially from the one person on the planet that promised you not to do such a thing, may be the most damaging part.

I wish there was something that we could say here that would help make this easier, but there probably isn't any magic wand (mine is broken you see).

CN,

you hit the nail right n the head, the rejection is what hurts the most..... Not the fact he had sex with someone else or even the fact he is living with her its the rejection like your no longer valuable or cared about....

I can past those things not sure I can past rejection though ......

Hurting

You absolutely deserve alimony.

In my separation agreement, I asked for alimony FOR LIFE and my WH agreed to pay it.

Mimi,

I hope the court see's I deserve it to. He won't agree t pay it that was argued over in mediation. The only way I am going to get it is court ordered.

I just pray a judge sees it that way. if I don't get it then he walks away scott free..... Only haing to pay lawyers and court costs. Since he has DS no CS issues if DS stays with him.... Thats my biggest fear he will have no consequenses for his actions..... I will be the one with the consequenses of having no home or money and maybe having to pay him CS for DS. None of this my chooseing , and that stinks ..

if he has no consequenses then he has walked away loosing nothing .. well except for half his 401K and some money to lawyers , not much in the sheme of things really....

Hurting

I'm willing to bet you that you get the alimony!!!

I hope so Mimi just something else to cause them problems.. she isn't going to like him havng to pay me every month. keeps me in his life in one small way ....... can't forget about someone ya gotta pay every month ......


Hurting

Sorry Eav for highjacking your thread...... back to regular programming now .....

I don`t think that all WS`s necessarily replace with the BS with the OP because the OP is "better"

I would say that many WS`s who choose the OP do so only because they feel that because of the magnitude of their betrayal, the damage can never be undone.

Most people (WS`s included) can simply not imgaine being able to forgive and recover from a betrayal so devastating until they are betrayed themselves.

So the easy way out, the cowards way out, is to choose the OP.

And some WS`s may in all truth may no longer feel worthy of the BS. So they choose the OP.

Daisy,

I do agree with that. I have wondered sometyimes if my WH feels that way.

I have told him many times I would and could forgive him if he would try and work this out. Maybe he does not believe me I dont know....

The only thing i am certain of is she is not a better person than me and he is choosing the easy way out instead of facing his demons and trying to rid himself of them....

Hurting

it's hard NOT to imagine the OW and my H living the same life that we had.....

(Signin)

I don't know what else I can say....

They definitely are not leading the SAME life!

If you say, think, or imagine that they are, you are putting yourself on the same level as the OW.

I chose not to do that...

You can choose not to do that, too.

Eav,

I can't imagine it in my case. As we had children and she can never have that with him. Yes they can play happy family wityh her DD and our DS but its not the same and never will be....

She can't have his youth and the man he used to be, it won't happen.

They may try and recreate it Eav but it won't be the same because she is not you..... and she never will be.....

I do believe no matter what they say or do there are things they will never forget about us no matter how hard they try.... The day you married, the days our children were born , in your case the day you brought you boys home ... the holidays, the losses we shared of loved ones... these things can't be recreated Eav they just can't....

History will be relived in their minds when they least expect it... when al is quiet and they sit and ponder their lives we will pop up, how could we not..... they may question their choices at these times and wonder what if....

Its then they will have to decide what to do .... keep on going down on the sinking ship or get in the life boat and paddle their way back to shore and the safety of their family.

So after much thought and reading this thread I don't see it as replacing us Eav, I see it as running from reality and playing make believe with someone who can't ever replace what we were to our H's.... Yup it hurts but we will survive...... Just rememeber you were the first and will always be the best ......

Hurting

((Eav))

Not sure if you saw this, I think Orchid linked to it about a month or so ago...

I thought it was beautiful, sad and truthful...

I am a FWW and although I never left to be with OM, I know my life would have been completely different from the one I share with H...

Ultimately, I think it would have been a very sad, unstable and soul-sick one, although I would have tried very hard to convince myself otherwise...

I'm so sorry for your pain and hope this poem brings a small amount of comfort to you today:

Testimony Of A Fool

As I sit here in my retirement home reminiscing about thoughts of years gone by,
I hope you listen to what I'm about to say, and this is the reason why.
You see, when I was just a young dad with a family of my own,
I was too blind to see that the things in life that mattered the most,
just one day might be gone.

I was only forty-five years old and had been married most all my life.
I had two teenage children, a lovely home, along with a faithful wife.
But my life became so boring with the same things happening each day.
Sex grew so monotonous, and my lust seemed to just slip away.

My wife, instead of my once lover, became my best friend.
I grew to love her more like a sister, or so I thought back then.
Lustful thoughts began invading my once faithful mind.
My wandering eyes became more wandering, most all the time.

I justified my actions though, for my wife just couldn't see,
that it was entirely her fault, what was happening to me.
She was always so involved with our young boy and girl,
that she didn't understand me, nor did she include me in her world.

She was always doing for others and somehow neglecting me.
How could she have been so blind that she couldn't even see,
what was happening to us.

When I reached out in lust and followed it through,
there was nothing in this world that my wife could do,
for I'd found the "love of my life",
a one of a kind, or so I thought.

My new wife was a looker, sexy and lean.
To me she was the prettiest girl I'd ever seen.
But shortly after we married she tried to make me over,
and that's when I knew that the honeymoon was over.

Oh how the years seemed to slowly slip away.
I thought about my first wife and children every day.
I could almost smell the biscuits as I'd crawl out of bed,
but now all that lay beside me was an aging sleepy head.

My first wife is now married to a jewel of a man I'm told.
He spoils her and cherishes her, and now he's growing old,
with the woman that I love.

My children, when they have time, come around every now and then,
but I can't help but reminisce what my life just might have been,
if I'd stayed home like I should have.

Now I'm old and all alone, living out my life in an old retirement home.
My second wife died and my children don't seem to care,
for they are now enjoying the dad who was always there.

Oh, if I could live my live all over again,
I wouldn't have been as selfish as I'd been back then.
I would now love my wife for being a wonderful mother,
and respect her and cherish her as my only lover.

But all these things just cannot be,
for now it's just too late for me.
But as for yourself you'd better think twice,
should you ever want to leave your wife.

For some things can never be the same,
and I only have myself to blame.
Now my days are numbered, and I'm still so all alone.
I pray that God forgives me as I sit here all alone,
in my retirement home.

Author: Agatha Weeks

Great points here- and things we all need to be reminded
of. I've re-read it this morning after one of the hardest nights I've had for a long time.
Just couldn't get the "WHY" and "HOW" questions out of my mind- nothing new but the things we all wonder about, like
WHY WH would get involved in an A instead of work on the M
WHY WH would be attracted and stay involved with a OW who
looks and acts like a trash *HO*.
HOW WH could abandon a loving wife, dog he was crazy about,
nice home and nice life all for some SF (or whatever w/OW)
Didn't come up with any new answer of course, since there's
no logic or reason to the addiction of A's, but the hurt
and frustration just really are getting to me lately.

WH doesn't seem to remember or care about any of our history
or good times- I guess that's the result of all the typical
WS "re-writing" of history and "convenient" memory.

He also seems "closed" and totally opposed to thinking we
could make changes, work out any problems or issues and make
a happy marriage- don't know if that just sounds like too
much trouble or effort to him, he doesn't have the courage
to try, or he simply doesn't want to do it because he's
still so determined to be with OW.

When I start feeling like things might be "too far gone" or
that WH just truly isn't interested to change or ever be
interested in me or us again, I do try to remember that he
totally "turned around" right after getting the DUI in Dec.
When his focus was off OW and he seemed out of the FOG, he
DID remember things we had done, our good memories, and seem
to value them, us and me again. He did feel sorry for the
pain he had caused, and did seem to believe we could make
changes and create a good marriage.
Unfortunately, he did go back with OW and seems pretty well
"entrenched" in life with her again now.
I believe if the A ended, WH would "change his tune" again
and be willing and interested in US again, just don't know
what it's going to take or when it's ever going to end.
They've stuck with each other despite several break ups,
knowing each other lied, manipulations, paranoid, outrageous
behavior by each, and still...they are there at WH's nice
new house, living together and doing all the things we used
to do...

I don't like to think of the OW as competition- or even to
think of her at all, because she's repulsive, trashy and
sick. I know that I know my real H, and all the best parts
of him, while she only knows the phony, empty, dishonest
shell of the WH alien.
There's a little satisfaction in both that, and knowing she will always be paranoid and insecure about WH's honesty
and faithfulness. (after all, those that "cheat with you,
will cheat ON you").
I think OW really feels like she is the "rescuer" of poor
WH who had an awful, lazy, unattractive wife and unhappy
marriage, which must be why she treats WH like crap and
controls him like a puppet.
Unfortunately, I also think she feels that their affair is
some great "love story" and not an AFFAIR and doesn't think it's been a bit wrong for her to get involved with WH since he's told her he was already seperated from a long, unhappy marriage and was getting divorced before he met her. (not true, but she chooses to believe that, despite my telling her the truth).

The verse posted by Katie Mae seems so true and is sad and
poignant. Even before WH was involved with OW, I had told
him he was going to end up old and lonely, with regrets,
and never be able to have a real or good relationship with
anyone until he worked on some of his issues (family was
dysfunctional, has bipolar, etc).
He has said, even recently, that he isn't totally sure what
he wants or wants to do, and the fear of making a huge, big
mistake is part of what keeps him from making up his mind
(as far as us). Don't know if reading this verse would be of
any help or viewed negatively if given to the WS ?

I love your post Hurting- it really is true that they can't
replace us and are just "playing house" with a subsitute.
They will never have what we have with the real person our
WS used to be and will always have to wonder.
They are the ones who are really losing, although at times
it's hard not to feel we are the ones losing everything-
Slammed

are there some FWS out there who did try to completely replace their spouse but keep the rest of thier life who can share what kinds of thoughts/feelings you had?

I've read all of the posts about my relationship with my H being real and not a fantasy and that i can't be replaced or compared with OW

and i know that MAKES SENSE

but i also know that right now this IS what my H has done

yes, he may be unhappy and the A may not last.....but from the outside looking in-he has replaced me with this woman and picked up his life right were he left off....

Can a person block out their past or just believe so strongly that it was a mistake that they are happy with the "do over"?

at some point does the reality of the past come back to them?

I have often thought of the OW and my fws relationship.

We have recovered, but, I still think about things like, what would his life been like if he had married the ow years ago instead of me?

What if the OW had been his first wife?

I know my husband better than anyone alive, and he knows that I know him from the inside out, and is often afraid of this fact, just in case, I am able to see through his walls of silence over what attracted him to the ow.

I guess that is a scary thought having another human being know what you are thinking and feeling.

I got to know the OW before she became the OW. I knew that my husband could fall for her, although he had never given me a reason to doubt his loyalty or love for me.

I noticed that the OW had the same characteristics and mannerisms as his mother, sister and niece.

She was so attractive to him, and she loved my MIL and all of her energies were wrapped up in spending her hours with my MIL, which she did not do for the other residences.

She was of the same personality as my MIL.

My husband that was so much a "Mama's Boy", was enthralled with the OW and her geniune love and care of my MIL.

My MIL simply put, glowed with happiness while in the company of the OW.

All of a sudden, I was the outcast, the bitter wife, that had always had problems with his beloved mother, (who had never truly accepted me, and had always wanted to remake me into someone that was of a better person.)

I could see, from his point of view what it looked like.

What if he had married this girl, that was so much like his mother and niece, that were outgoing, outspoken and bigger than life itself.

How could I compete with someone of these qualities?

She had huge warm brown eyes, that encouraged others to confide in her, and she was so compassionate.

Whats not to love?

My husband probably asked himself the following;

Why couldn't I have found her when I was young and just starting out?

She loves my mother, why couldn't my wife done the same?

Then I am sure came the thoughts of;

If I see what could have been, than maybe my marriage has been wrong from the start, maybe I never loved my wife at all, but loved the idea of marriage and married her for the wrong reasons.

I'm sure he thought,

I am so utterly head over hills in love with this person, I must not be in love with my wife.

I never felt this way with my wife.



Excuse me everyone for going on and on and hope I have not bored you but it intrigued me about the thought of whether the ow could replace the bs and I just wanted to share what my experiences and thoughts were on this manner, and although I can't actually speak for my fws, I am a pretty good judge of my husband and how his mind works.


Sincerely,
k.d.'s heartbreak