Is is possible to do plan A while separated? H has been gone for a month now. He saids he does not want me anymore, and that he wants a divorce. I have been trying to be nice to him, and excepting my part in our troubled marriage. And then at times I totally blow it, and get angry at him. I know I need to stop doing this. He saids he still cares about me, that he wants a friendly divorce, and that he wants to be my friend after and be able to call me to talk and stuff like friends do. I don't know what to think of this. My friend tells me that he wants to still keep that connection with me in case what he is doing now don't work out he will have me to come back to. We have been together for 13 years, moved in together right after high school at the age of 17. We got married 5 years later and have been married for eight years and have 2 girls age 3 and 7. He was my first, I was his first. We didn't have the perfect marriage, but I loved him and he loved me. All I keep thinking about are the good times, his touch, just being with him. There were plenty of bad times, but we got through them. He continues to deny that he did anything wrong. I long to talk to him, we talk everyday, but all I get out of it more hurt. I end up crying and he hurts me even more. He keeps telling me that this is what I wanted. How can I show him that this marriage is worth saving? People are telling me just to let it go, and get on with my life. I don't see how I can go on. The pain is so unbearable. How can you love someone so much, and just let go?

What is he talking about? What does he think you wanted?

Is there an affair going on? Do you have children?

Yes, you can plan A during separation, it is harder, but since he is staying in touch with you, it is certaintly do-able.

I believe that it is possible to have an effective Plan A even when seperated although it does make it considerably more difficult. I am not a Plan A expert by any means and there are those on here that could probably give you much better guidance than me on planning that.

However, I do believe that since the seperation has already been effectuated, that you have to first focus on yourself and your children. Was your H involved in an A when you seperated? Is the A still ongoing? I would suggest that you immediately find a pro-marriage individual counselor to discuss your issues with. Many on this site have been very pleased with the counseling recieved from Steve and Jennifer from Marriage Builders. They are fairly pricey and there are issues with certain insurances covering their fees but even if you have to go into debt to get good counseling and begin at least the personal recovery process it will be the best investment that you have ever made IMHO.

Dealing with a completely seperate issue than my own marriage last week I spent several days with my FIL who is a recovered alcoholic and also has spent a few dollars of his own with various counselors getting down the the why's of his former behaviors. He said something to me that I think was pretty prophetic and can be applied to numerous situations. He said " It is hard for someone else to be happy with you, unless you are first happy with yourself. I utlimately found that most of my transgressions at the root were due to my unhappiness with myself and had little to do with those around me. Once that I recovered from my alcohol problem and didn't even have any urges to drink, I was still unsettled and unhappy. It was not until I had gone through counseling that I realized that looking past all the bad in my life, I really kind of liked the guy in the mirror. Once I got to that point, everything else took care of itself."

You cannot control what your husbands ultimate outcome to this is but you can do everything within your power to try and save your marriage. If he is involved in an ongoing A, there is no chance to rebuild your marriage until that A has ended. MB principles have the best plan for ending an affair that I have seen anywhere in my substantial research on this subject.

What you can control is how that you allow this event to shape the rest of your life. Learning to understand a partners emotional needs, avoiding LB's and becoming a forgiving, open, honest person makes you a perfect catch for anyone. Based on what you have written, I believe that you are much farther along in that category than most of us were when we first started trying to rebuild our lives. If you continue to improve yourself, understand how to meet the needs of your partner and do your part to have an open, loving and honest relationship, I am quite sure that you will have at some point in your life the man of your dreams. It may or may not be your current husband, but if it is not, it is his loss, not yours.

At some point, he must make the committment to do his part in rebuilding this marriage. If not for your sake, maybe at least initially for the sake of the kids. I wouldn't push the relationship issues on him too quickly especially if he is involved in an ongoing A, but certainly positioning the kids best interest as a reason to try on both ends is a pretty compelling reason to give it each of your best shots.

You can read my whole story in a number of different places on this forum. My sitch is not that important. What is important is that I am well on my way to rebuilding a marriage that I never dreamed was even possible. When we went through our roughest times, my FWW was in the midst of a fairly LTA although distance between them limited the amount of personal contact to about once a month. Until recently, I really thought that the A died a natural death because I didn't know about it until more than ten years later. However, my wife revealed to me the turning point that opened her eyes with regard to what she was doing was when I laid out to her that I was going to protect myself and my kids regardless of the costs. If there was a divorce it would not be friendly and I would fight like he{l for full custody and bring any reasons for me being the better parent into the courtroom that was necessary. This apparently hit her hard because she thought that I had possibly already discovered the affair although I didn't even have a clue it was going on. Shortly after that she ended the affair and asked me to begin marriage counseling with her. We did and we survived but never really rebuilt our marriage. We salvaged the pieces. This was due to her unwillingness to be completely honest with me and reveal what the real problem had been...she chose to get her needs met outside the marriage instead of helping me understand how to fill her needs better. In the long run, dishonesty will ruin a marriage. Once we had our D-Day and both committed to doing whatever was necessary to rebuild our R, we have finally started down the road of true intimacy and trying to be a partnership speaking with one voice and commons goals instead of two shareholders with some common interests but each with their own agenda. Hope this helps.

P.s. I think that you would find some real value in starting on some AD's at least temporarily to get you through the humps.

NT

Mandy,
Could you fill us in with some of the details? Is he currently having an affair? What do you know about OW, her family, friends? Read up on Plan A, get the prescribed books, bury yourself in you and your kids. Give everyone here the details--we are not here to judge.

Thank you for your support. I have posted my story here, I'm not sure how to provide a link. My H started a friendship with the secretary at his work. I know her name, and I know where she lives. She is divorced with a son. This all started about a year ago, with my husband, my daughter, and OW and her son going to the movies without my knowledge. I found out when my daughter told me the next day. He was sorry and knew he made a mistake. I was angry with him, he left that night so I could cool off. Later on that night I couldn't get a hold of him, so I went to her house and found him there. Again he was sorry, saids they are just friends, and that he needed someone to talk to. He moved out a few months later, said that he wanted to still work on our marriage. During this time I caught him there again. He said again they were just friends. He did admit to kissing her. He again said he was sorry, he didn't want to loose me. He promised to not speak to her again, other than at work (work related issues). He moved back home about a week later. He was gone for a total of a month. We talked about our issues. I worked on the things that he needed me to change. He seen it and acknowledged it. Than A few months ago, he started comming home and I would smell the OW perfume on him. I would get angry and question him. He would say the I was paranoid, that he was just sitting at her desk today on the computer at work. Shortly after, he stopped telling me that he loves me. He would tell me that he cares about me but don't think that he loves me anymore. Than I got a phone call from somebody I don't know telling me that My H was having an afair with this OW, and that he has been seen with her. Again, I got angry with him, questioned him about it, he denied it. He finally told me that night that he loved me, and that I should believe him over a stranger. A couple days later I decided to call a lady that I know and who is this OW neighbor. She told me that she has seen my husband there, back in March, and several times prior to that. Again, I confronted my H about what I knew. He looked me in the face and flat out lied. I told him that if he couldn't tell me the truth, that he needed to leave. He came home that night and we talked and argued some more. He still denied that he was over there. He also spoke to his cousin that night and cried and told him he didn't want to lose me. He came home the next day and started packing his stuff. I told him I didn't want our marriage to end, that I just wanted the truth. He finally told me that he was over there, but he was just there doing some work. The OW had asked him to put a ceiling fan up for her, and some motion lights on another occation, and she also had him fix her garage door. He said that was it. He didn't tell me because he didn't want any problems. I said that he made a promise to me not to see her again like that, and he broke that promise. He said that he never slept with her, that it wasn't anything like that. He still insisted on moving out, and has talked divorce since then. He said he can't stand the accusations anymore. I know that this was or still is an EA, I have no proof that it was physical. He still claims that he is not speaking with her. Although my daughter said that daddy was talking on a new cell phone. My husband saids that he didn't get a new one. There were texted messages on our cell phone bill, I questioned him about them, he saids that it must have been the kids messing around with his phone. I have exposed to his family. He has already spoke to his boss at work, and pretty much has him believing that I am a crazy, obsessive wife. The boss and his wife are also friends with OW. I know that they don't know the whole story. My H is actually staying with his boss right now. In his mind, he thinks he has done nothing wrong. He continues to place all the blame on me. He saids he had no other problems with me but the accusations. I told him that I just needed him to help me trust him, and to stop the lying, and that I felt I had a right to accuse him. I don't believe our marriage should end over this. But he tells me everyday that he doesn't want to be married to me anymore. And he keeps telling me that it is what I wanted. This is far from what I wanted. I can't get through to him.
There is more, but he is comming over to see the girls in a little bit. I will post more when I can. Thank you again

Mandy, you cannot get through to him right now. For talking purposes, he is an alien monster incapable of recognizing how much pain they are causing a human being. Aliens will babble at you for hours on end without saying a single logical phrase. Quit expecting your husband to make sense right now. It isn't going to happen.

Mandy, do you have a strategy worked out for ending this adultery and salvaging your marriage? You need one, you know. Here's a generic sample of such a plan you might find useful.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=0#3014240


Read through that and see if it helps you organize your thoughts and gives you a direction to travel, okay?

When you get to the part about exposure in that link, start thinking about people in your husband's life who can be allies with you in breaking up this obscenity. You can, for instance, set his boss straight about what is going on, and I'm sure there are others who can help too.

Where did OW and your husband get to know one another? Is there a chance for exposure there somewhere?

Hang in there, Lady. Things can get much better if you're willing to do some tough, hard work over the next few months.

H came over the other day to see the kids. He ended up staying all evening. We talked so much about everything. We talked about how each of us felt and has felt at times during our marriage. I told him that I was so sorry about any pain and hurt that I caused him during our marriage. We both came to realize, although I kinda knew for a long time, that I have been suffering from depression for quite a long time. I was very insecure about myself. I didn't have the best upbringing, and then later on I lost my dad to cancer, 1 1/2 years later lost my mother to heart attack, 2 years later lost my brother in a car accident. He was with me through all of this. I started pushing him away when he tried to show me affection. I felt smothered. I have worked on this problem the last year, and he said that he knows that I have worked on it and was changing it. I called to be put on AD's which I will be starting today. We talked about his A with co-worker. He still denies that anything is going on. I told him that I am so hurt by it all. He said that she is still just a friend. He still won't except that he did anything that wrong. He feels that it was wrong to a point. We ended up having sex that day, and after wards he felt guilty and said it was a mistake. He said that he still wants to pursue the divorce. He said that we should see other people, and if it don't work out, maybe we will one day be together again. I told him that I didn't want a divorce. That I love him so much, and that we can work through this. He wants to get it over with as soon as possible. I don't understand why he wants to do this so fast. I asked him to give it some time. He wants me to help him fill out the paper work, so that we can agree on everything. I told him I wouldn't do that. He said that it will take a couple months for it to be final, and that we can see what happens in the mean time. If he files, what choices do I have in trying to work this marriage out? He said that the other morning when he got up for work, he was missing me. I told him that that is how I feel all the time. He called last night, and it bothered him that I went to his family's house for dinner last night. Could these be good signs? I don't want our marriage to end, but I also can't accept his "friendship" with this OW.

When he left to go back to his place the other night, he gave me a nice hug, it felt so good. I love him so much. I am so tied of feeling this sick feeling all the time. I want it to go away.

If he files for divorce it is going to crush me. But what can I do? I know I need to protect myself and the kids. He doesn't want me to get an attorney. He feels we can do it on our own.

I DO NOT want this!

Your husband has been taken over by an alien, Mandy. He isn't human and human standards of logic do NOT apply. Quit looking for hopeful signs in what he says and does. You'll only be disappointed.

Find an attorney today. Don't put it off. Find yourself a mean, heartless, bulldog of a lawyer who will be aggressive in protecting your interests. When a spouse starts talking divorce, you have one responsibility and that is to protect your children's future as well as your own.

Instruct your attorney you want him or her to stretch the divorce your husband wants so badly as long as possible. When your husband wants to talk about divorce, you need to tell him you don't DO divorce, you do marriage. Refer all talk about divorce to your bulldog. You continue with your Plan A.

Did you read that link? What is your plan to recover your marriage, Mandy? It's not going to get better just by wishing.

Longhorn, Thats just it, I don't know what kind of plan I should have. I did read over the link. I did contact an attorney last week, and got some advice. It is very expensive though. I have no family, but I did expose to his family. They are beings supportive of me at this time. But they tell me he is not worth it. I don't need him. That I should be the one divorcing him. I'm not sure about his mom. I know that he has spoken to her as well, and I know that he tells her that I'm just obsessive. Everyone of the men at his workplace are friends with this OW. Like I said, even his boss thinks that it is crazy of me to think they he could be having an afair with her. This is the person my H is staying with now. They are letting him stay in a small appartment by there house rent free. They are all just "friends". I don't know what else I should be doing. I am trying to work on myself, I am trying to be nice and understanding. He places the blame on me, and believe me, he is good at it. I have days where I totally feel it is all my fault. Even if it wasn't or isn't a PA, was I wrong to think that it wasn't o.k. for him to be at her house "talking"? Was it wrong of me think that it wasn't o.k. that they kissed? Even though he claims it was friendly kisses, and that she does that with all her male friends? Was it wrong for me to think that it wasn't o.k. for him to go back over there and do some "work" on her house, after he made a promise to me never to go there again?

He saids that he hasn't been over there since he did the work, which may or may not be true. I have no proof. He may not now, because he has the support of his boss believing his lies. I don't think he would want his boss to think differently. I do think he speaks with her on the phone. All I have now is the cell phone calls but no number to back it up. Also Text messages, but again no number to back it up. The attorney I contacted said that he could request the records once I started the D process. But I don't want to start the process, I do not want to be the one who ends this marriage. This will have to be my H call.
Please guide me to the next steps that I need to be taking.

Thank you so much

Mandy, I can't tell you how many women I give "friendly kisses," go over to their homes, call frequently, and send numerous text messages to. OH, wait...yes I can. NONE…and neither does any married man I know.

Look, your husband is doing what all adulterers do. They lie. They get very good at lying. They will put their hand on a Bible and swear on their children's eyes that day is night, if it furthers the adultery. The rule of thumb is if an adulterer’s mouth is moving, the adulterer is lying. Mandy, get used to it. You can't believe a word he says right now.

Mandy, if you don’t do something, your marriage is surely lost and your children’s future along with it. He says he wants a divorce. You MUST take him at his word on that issue because if you don’t, you lose everything. Look, a divorce doesn’t happen in a day. Even if it’s uncontested, it takes months. Here in Texas, for instance, a no-fault, uncontested divorce requires a two-month waiting period after all the documents are filed for the decree to become final. That’s 60 days of opportunity for a BS to work on a WS to effect reconciliation. If the divorce IS contested, it can be years before it finally happens. How many days, how many opportunities is that, Mandy?

Lady, if you don’t do anything to break the current stalemate, the most likely outcome is you find yourself divorced and your children disadvantaged because you let your husband dictate the terms of your divorce. Are you going to let that happen because you don’t want to take the “first step?” He’s already done that, Mandy. Now you need to respond in some way or you're going to be steamrollered. If you don’t, what ARE you going to do?

I also see in your words your husband is using a form of a manipulative technique on you called “gaslighting.” That’s a form of brainwashing, if you will, where a manipulator does what he/she can to make you believe you are defective…that it is you who are at fault for all of this. Here is a thread put up by Mulan discussing gaslighting. Take a look at it and I think you’ll see your husband, and yourself, there.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rt=all&vc=1

Oh, That's all I ever heard from WH! Oh, she's just a friend, just someone I can talk to, on and on and on! LAIR! LAIR! LIES AND MORE LIES!

Longhorn, WOW, Thank you for the link. Amazingly simular to what my H is doing. I am constantly questioning myself about whether I am wrong about this whole thing.

Are you saying that I should go ahead and start the D process with an attorney? I know that in a way he has already started it, trying to get us to agree on everything. He does not have the money for an attorney, but I know for a fact that he could get it if he wanted it. So far he has been very good about giving me money for the bills. He has aleady been getting the girls once a week overnight. And he comes up to our house once a week to visit with them. He saids the current arrangements with the kids are good with him.

Also, should I contact his boss, and tell him my side of the story? I don't know that it would do any good. My husband is sure to get very angry about it.

Thanks Longhorn

Mandy, I can't tell you to start divorce proceedings. It’s your decision. YOU are in charge of your life, period.

But, Mandy, can you describe any other mechanism by which your situation is going to change except by filing? Right now, he's providing enough money for the bills...but what happens when his adultery needs more funds? What happens when he has to make a decision whether to buy his partner in adultery a gift or give you money for the electricity bill? You might think that's a no-brainer, but there are threads out here where adulterers have absolutely abandoned small children in order to keep the fantasy world going. The problem with your circumstances right now is that you are dependent on his good will and the tenuous hope he's going to continue to be financially responsible. Remember, he's an alien now and he isn't thinking or reacting as a human being would.

Another note: he says he’s happy with the current arrangements with the kids because he’s ENTIRELY comfortable with not having to take responsibility for them full-time. He can’t do that if he wants to keep the fantasy going strong because having the children around too much, having to deal with their crankiness, the discipline, the illnesses and little hurts and pains…all that intrudes on his time in Fantasy Land. That evolves into daddy being the “good guy” and mom becoming the disciplinarian and the one who keeps them in line.

Against that backdrop, Mandy, I'm saying that just filing for a legal separation or divorce (with built in requirements for support, custody, visitation, etc.) is NOT the final word. There is a long period between filing and decree. Any number of things can happen between those events.

He HAS already started the process of divorcing. He wants to do it in as secretive a way as possible so he comes out of it smelling pretty, but he most assuredly has begun this. Can you afford to not respond? Again, Mandy, you can use a filing for divorce to your advantage. While you only talk about reconciling and marriage to your husband, your attorney protects your back. You tell your husband you only do marriage and tell him to talk to your attorney about divorce.

Heck yeah. If you can possibly manage it, go sit with your husband’s boss somewhere and explain what is going on. Ask him to help you break up an obscene adultery that will break up your marriage. Personal contact shows him your sincerity and concern. When you're calm, matter-of-fact, and informative, you defeat WH's attempts to portray you as crazy, dumb, a screaming harridan, or whatever he’s been telling people.

Your husband’s co-workers might be good targets, in spite of what he’s told them. You might not be able to sit down with each of them...but you might with their spouses huh? Alternately, how about sending them a nice, calm, email letting them know the truth. It’s something to consider.

What other opportunities do you have for exposure? In general terms, his family, your family, your children, your pastor or priest, professional associations or social organizations your husband belongs to, personal friends, etc., are all good people to expose to.

When you expose, Mandy, you need to EXPECT him to be absolute furious. He will scream invective at you using words you might not realize he even knows. He will tell you at some point something to the effect he was thinking of working on the marriage before you did, but now…oh, boy…now you can forget all that! He will rage on and on while he stomps about the room. If you think he might get violent, find a way to have someone else there with you, but in the hundreds upon hundreds of threads I've read out here, I have never read of a WS who did. I think the reason is they know, deep down where they don't admit it, that they are guilty and deserve what is happening.

The thing is, people get over being mad. It takes hard work to stay mad and that intrudes on the fantasy world. While adulterers get over being angry, marriages do not get over infidelity. If you don’t want to file some type of legal action, Mandy, what will you do to save your marriage and protect your children?

Thank you so much Longhorn. You have really wakened me up. I know what I need to do now. I will try and talk to his boss. Whether he believes me or not. I will have to go when my H is not there though.

My husbands cousin also works at the same place as my H in the same department. He said that it seems that H and OW and boss hang out quit a bit at work. That OW buys my husband lunch sometimes and seems to know what kinds of foods H likes, they are always sitting together, laughing and joking around. And that they seem to get quiet when he walks in the room. My husband even has said to me recently that he would classify his boss and OW as his best friends.

I will not tolerate it, thank you so much

I will post more

Expose to Boss and his W. But expose it as if it is only your Ws and the OW, then 'wonder out loud' if the OW may be doing other guys also.

re: Maybe the OW has got a 3-some going on?

L.

Okay, Mandy. Good for you. You're going to start feeling better about yourself because you're doing something about this.

Don't misunderstand, now. There are tough times ahead but you've got to do the hard things if you are to have a chance of getting your husband, and your marriage, back. The folks out here know that from personal experience. They've gone through what you are now. Use us as your support group, okay? Don't ever get the feeling you're alone because you're not. Helping others is why folks come to this board and post. Hang in there, lady.

Longhorn and others,

After procrastinating (sp?) for a couple of weeks, I finally reached my breaking point last night for exposure. For the last couple of night he has been calling around 7:00 p.m. to say good night to the girls. He said that he was very tired and wanted to go to bed. Well last night, I decided to take a trip in to check if he was at his place, at about 11:00P.m. and he was not there. I know where he was at. I tried calling him several times and he did not answer. I ended up leaving him a message stating that I knew what he was doing. He has not called me back as of yet.

I called his boss last night, and told him about what is really going on. I don't know if he believes me or not, but at least I did it. This is the guy who is letting him stay in an appartment behind his house.

I also called the warden of the prison where he and OW works and informed her about what is going on. I had a four hour discussion with his cousin, who also works there, who said that they act inappropriate at work, and people are starting to feel uncomfortable around them. The warden informed me that she would get the matter looked into immediately.

His cousin said that the co-workers already suspect, and have been making comments about it.

I still have not retained an attorney. I am back and forth on this one. He still threatens divorce, and that he doesn't want to be with me. Why is he being secretive about the affair, if he truly doesn't want to be with me?
A part of me wants to just file and open his eyes to what is to become.

I try hard to let him know that I still love him. When I do, its like spitting vennom at him. He gets so angry with me. He hardly ever talks about us, and when we do, it gets put on me. I'll never understand how someone can change so much, and pretty much give up on his family.

Anyways, I have a feeling if he is questioned at work today, he is going to be highly upset with me. I do not want him comming here, although I don't know if he will. I am also worryied about him having the kids this Friday. Last friday, he fell asleep for a good portion of the day, while the kids where left to do as they pleased. The oldest daughter (7) called me around 6:30p.m. that night and said that the youngest (3) had pooped her pants and she couldn't get daddy up. So she was left to clean her sister up herself.

What do I do now

Good to see you come back to MB, Mandy. His irresponsibility with your younger children is indicative of how devoted to the fantasy he is. In Fantasyland, only he and the OW matter. Small factors like his children don't matter to him right now. Frankly, I think you should have concerns about the children's safety while in your WH's care right now as exhibited by last week. I wouldn't let them go there. Your WH can come to your home to visit with them.

You keep trying to find sense in what your WH is doing, Mandy, and that's not going to work. He's not thinking rationally right now, and nothing he says or does is going to be logical.

You had better take him at his word in one respect though. If he says he wants a divorce, you MUST protect yourself and your children by getting to an attorney first. Don't be caught off guard if he files a suit tomorrow alleging irreconcilable differences and quits paying you a dime for your support or your children. Please find some way to protect your children, okay?

Well, as expected, he is madder than **** at me. He called several times yesterday evening yelling and screaming at me. He said that he used to care about me and that he wanted to be friends and make this friendly, but now he HATES me. He said that the heat was on, and things are going to start getting real ugly now.

I made an appointment to see an attorney on Friday. I guess I have no other choice but to start the process. We don't really have a whole lot to fight for as far as "things" go. We rent our home, and we own two vehicles. I don't make alot of money, so I know it is important to secure some support from him, before he decides to stop giving it to me. The kids are most important to me, he knows this, and I'm afraid he might try to hurt me in that respect.

I love me H. I want our marriage back to how it was. Will there be any hope for us after the D is filed? Is there anything more I can do to save my marriage? Are we doomed? Do I continue to try and talk to him? or do I stop? I am so confused and scared.

Thanks

bump