Pep,

Daisy37 suggested I post to you about plan B. I am contemplating going into it but I have some issues. Maybe you can help.

My current thread outlining my current sitch is on Recovery board titled "I'm Freaking Out!!"

Thankyou
IAD

bump

PUSH!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Thank you Orchid.

IAD - what are your Plan B issues? Perhaps others can help, too.

Prior to going to Plan B, consider these pre-requisites (IMHO):

1. You've demonstrated your Plan A improvements to the extent your WS will allow;

2. You're physically separated from the WS (can't Plan B under the same roof);

3. You have in place a legal separation or other arrangements defining division of assets, responsibilites for continuing obligations of jointly owned property or debt, and child custody; and

4. You have an intermediary or communication plan that limits interaction with your WS to issues only absolutely necessary.

These are the pre-requisites as I see Plan B. Others may have other opinions.

The issues are that my WH easily manipulates me through the children and through work. We work together. I see him frequently on the days he works. He works 2-3 of the same days I do. He also just easily manipulates me in general and since I can't completely separate myself from him b/c of work and kids then it still gives him opportunity to manipulate me. I don't even realize he's done it until I've already been drawn in.

I grew up as I'm sure alot of people did with divorced parents. I was put in the middle of my parents arguments and drama constantly. I had to witness all of it and my parents hated each other. I don't want my kids to have to witness any of this or even feel for a minute that their parents can't get along. My WH knows this and will use it. My DD is very in tune with my feelings and she can sense when something is even remotely wrong. If she feels anything amiss she will stand there and watch to make sure her mommy and daddy are ok. He knows all he has to do is walk up to the door and I won't ignore him or say anything in front of my daughter.

Same thing at work, I won't jeopardize my job by not dealing with him. I can limit contact with him pretty well but again, if he pushes contact he knows I won't draw attention by saying/doing anything. My work has already been very patient and I don't want to talk to my boss about it b/c the city already has an issue with spouses working together and this would only prove their point more. This would impact my job not his. He is a sgt., I am an admin asst. they will move me to a new position or get rid of me before they ever did anything to him.

I've mentioned having an intermediary to the only person I would ask and she didn't look like she would be very thrilled to be put in the middle and neither would her husband. They are extremely supportive of me but her husband is also friends with mine.

We don't have any family that lives near us to act as an intermediary either.

These are the major reasons I have not gone to plan B b/c I know how well my WH manipulates me and I'm afraid that I really don't have the strength to uphold plan B. Sometimes I feel like I really have to have absolutely no love or feeling left for my H before I could stick to it. My parents divorce traumatized me so much that I feel like I really would remain married at all costs to myself. My friends and co-workers keep asking me why I would even want to remain married to him and I'm running out of answers but I can't let go either.

I feel so pathetic.

Your sig line indicates "FWS".

If he's a former WS, Plan B is not the answer.

Something you wrote really caught my attention:
Shame on your parents for putting you in the middle.

But I don't believe it's honest or healthy to fake "getting along." Not healthy for you or your kids, IMHO. Your kids will see through you. Do you want them to learn that they too should stuff their emotions?

WAT

You are right, I don't want them to learn this. But overall WH and I are getting along. We spend most of our time together and we are affectionate, almost the entire 8 months have been this way. He just won't give up OW. Right now he swears (don't worry, I don't believe him eventhough I want to) that he and OW just talk on the phone, they aren't seeing each other. Even if that is true he doesn't get it that it is still and EA. I did believe him for the past 3 months b/c he was literally spending all of his time with the kids and I. He was talking about the progress we were making and it really started to feel positive. Until this last week. That's the part that is getting to me, is the making progress for months and then being slapped in the face again for a week or two. Then things go back to being good and positive.

None of the getting along is fake. We really do get along even through all of this he77.

And oops on the FWS. I forgot to change it when contact started back up.

Pep, I read your recommended thread. Thank you. I related so much to the other poster on there. It was like she was voicing all of my thoughts and concerns with going to plan B.

My kids leave in 3 weeks to visit my parents for a month then they will be home a week and go visit my H's parents for a few weeks. All in all they will be gone most of the summer. I thought about continuing plan A for 3 more weeks, getting my plan B letter perfect, getting myself psyched up and then implementing it after we take them to my parents. That's the other problem, H and I are driving the kids half way and spending the night in a hotel to meet my parents. Little hard to do plan B with that and I don't have anyone else that can drive with me. This would take my kids completely out of the equation and give him one less thing to manipulate me with.

Also, do we send a copy of the plan B letter to OW? And, do I just try to keep him away from relationship talk right now. He wants to talk about our relationship and try to come to some decisions soon but he is back in the fog now if you have read any of my posts on my other thread. So he is being negative and then positive in the next breath and saying hurtful things that only upset me.

Well, Inadazed, in a sense girl, you have been an incredible enabler of his love affair relationship for these 8 months that you and him have been getting along "so well" with him. That is doing nothing but fostering his disrespect of you and your children by continuing his affair (Emotional Affairs are inmvho WORSE than physical affairs in terms of breaking)....so, while you think things have been "getting along well", they are in reality just like that because you have made it that way. I am sure some people here would champion you in this (unfortunately I am not one of them)....because every day that you CONTINUE to endorse this affair by "going along" with it, is another 2 days you will probably have to pay back in the future trying to recover.

Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

Lem

Dazed,

I think if you work out some Plan B boundaries ahead of time it might help you. You know your H, you know the work requirement, plan it out ahead of time what kind of boundaries you can set for yourself given all the possible situations that will arise and then stick to it. All contact with your H would have to be short and sweet and TOTALLY work related. No personal stuff AT ALL. Same goes for the children. Any contact over the kids has to be ONLY about the kids. The darker you go in Plan B the better.

I don`t think you are supposed to send the Plan B letter to the OW. What goes on between you and your H is none of her business. Of course your H will let her in on what is going on....but that is a totally different scenario than if YOU tell her what going on. An NC letter goes to the OW once you get the M back on track but not the Plan B letter.

I think to do a good Plan B you have to have a "Plan B mindset". Your goal to shut your H out of your psersonal life as much as humanly possible. If you have the proper mindset...you are really clear on the concept...you`ll know exactly how to follow through.

Thank you for you opinion. I'm sure it is the opinion of most who have kept up with my sitch. And sadly it is my own opinion of myself. That's what makes what I'm doing even worse!!! I KNOW I'm doing it. I can't even blame him for this, no 2X4's please, yes this is his doing but how can I not expect him to be a cakeeating, fencesitting jacka$$ when I have allowed him and expected nothing more. 3 months ago Lem your words would have seemed harsh to me. I even stopped reading on GQII b/c I didn't want to face what I knew in my heart WH was still doing. I didn't want to face that I was enabling him. I didn't want to face any of it. I'm now coming to terms with it and now my mind and heart are in a constant battle to see who is going to come out on top. But atleast my mind is WANTING to listen to the harsh reality now. That's a start.

I'm going to need constant kicks in the a$$ and many 2x4's in the next 3 weeks.

You are right, I think what I will do is take the next 3 weeks and really plan my boundaries, plan out scenarios of manipulation, etc. and get EVERYTHING in order then implement plan B when my kids leave. I don't want my kids to go to my parents and be worried b/c after 8 months mommy and daddy aren't even speaking now.

I didn't know for sure about sending the plan B letter to OW b/c in SAA it gives an example of the guys plan B letter then a short letter to OM. Also, this may be a stupid question but I want to make sure I get everything right. Do I mail the letter or do I give it directly to him?

Since I never sent a Plan B letter your best bet is to ask Pep or JL about whom to send it to. I haven`t heard anything here about sending a copy to the OP.

You are NOT stupid to want to know exactly how to do this right. Take your time and get every detail planned out.

I think one more thing you might want to think about it discussing your Plan B with people close to you. But make sure they don`t tell him your plan beforehand. Once you go into a dark Plan B you don`t want people close to you feeding your H info about you. Remember he`s not supposed to know what you are doing, what you are thinking, what you are up to. He`s going to try and pump everyone who could possibly be in the know about you. He`d most likley do this with the kids if they were around.

The whole point of this exercise is to let him experience what divorce would be like. You`re not divorcing him but you are giving him a taste of what divorce will be like unless he straightens up and flies right.

And you are doing this to give yourself a break. You are DONE dealing with the foggy WS...one way or another. While you are on your break take care of you. Do things to make yourself happy and remember your contact with him works the same way as HIS contact with the OW...everytime you have contact with him it will reignite your feelings for him both postive and negative. It could weaken your resolve either way and your goal right now is to remain neutral and wait.

And Plan B will give you a taste of what a D would be like. I think you will find it`s not as scarey as you imagine. It`s tough for sure but it`s not as bad as living in endless OW/BS limbo. You are living through the worst of it right now and you are holding up just fine.

IAD:

I wouldn't go beating yourself up so much now about this. Each person has to come to this realization for themselves. Some of us take alot longer than others, and as much as I would like for you to have seen it this way months ago I know that one can only do so when they are ready.

In the end, each of us is 100% responsible for our decisions in life and the eventual outcomes of those decisions.

You have the clarity now to see that YOU are where you are in this life and current situation with your cheating husband because of decisions YOU have made (enabling as discussed above)...You undoubtedly have felt helpless here over these past months when in reality you have so much more power than you believe.

The great thing about this is that YOU have the tools and support here to help change your situation and take back your dignity and self respect. But......ONLY you can do this. The "wisest" of the "wise" posters here can NOT do this for you. NOONE but you can do this. Steve Harley can NOT do this for you. Your marriage may or may not survive this affair (noone here can defintively tell you otherwise), but I am sure many of us can attest to the fact that your self love, self respect and self dignity can come roaring back when you establish and ENFORCE boundaries and STOP accepting the disgusting behavior you have tolerated over these past months from your cheating husband.

I only post to you in what ***I**** would want someone to post to me. What I want is what ***I***** think is best for you and what ****I***** think is healthy and spiritually nurturing life...others may see it differently, and you may see it differently....all perfectly ok things. So feel free to toss my advice and opinions out the window.

I don't have to bear any of the consequences of any decison you make based on my opinion, so it is ofcourse easy for me to "tell" you what I would do. I did enforce boundaries, maintained my self respect and dignity and did NOT tolerate a continued betrayal....When I was betryaed yet again...it ended up in me divorcing my wife (perhaps an unacceptbale ooutcome for some,,,but NOT for me). The divorce did NOT end any pain or make things suddenly better for me...in a way, it temporarily makes things worse. IN the end, I have survived the fall and thrived...so there is some success to this anyway.

Please don't lose sight of the bigger picture. You can't make your cheater husband do anything he doesn't want to do.....NEITHER CAN THE OTHER WOMAN. You can wish till your blue in the face that he will defog, or do what is "right", but that is all wasted energy. Control the things you can (get physically healthy, financially healthy, emotionally healthy), take back your self respect and dignity, and look yourself in the mirror and don't deny what you know in your heart is wrong. When you have done all of that, you will be a success (with or without your husband).

Just my .02

LM

Ok, I think I have my plan, I will wait the 3 weeks and get everything in order. So, what do I do in the meantime? Do I continue with what I've been doing the last 3 months? Including SF? Do I engage in any relationship conversations if he initiates them?

I appreciate everyone's .02 so keep it comin.

Dazed,

I think you want to Plan A right up to the Plan B. I`m still worried about SF though because I am not so sure he`s not having sex with her. You`re walking a tight rope on this.

Daisy:

Why would you describe SF with an actively cheating spouse as a "tight rope"? There is nothing confusing or hazy about this.

Any BS who has sex with a cheating spouse who has NOT had 6 months of abstinence from SEX WITH ANYONE is exposing themselves to ALL of the other partners of the other person and so on. HIV, Chlamydia, Herpes, HPV, Syphillis are ALL fair game....oh I forgot...Hepatitis...that one always escapes me.

Now, I am not here to judge whether SF with a cheating spouse is "right" or whatever...(been there done that a hundred times over) BUT, it is DANGEROUS. There are great risks to doing this. Being in "Plan A" affords one NO Special protection from these potential diseases. Lets get that out there so people can make INFORMED decisions.

That's all I have to say about that. If a BS wants to try and meet the Sexual Needs of a cheating spouse and understands those risks upfront, than by all means....get to it. Knock yourself out.

That "stuff" aint coming near my body....but that is just me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem

Lemmonman,

As a BS who caught an STD from a former WH I am completely in agreement with you on this. I found out I was in fact a BS from my doctor.

He asked me to let my partner know. So I called my former WH at work, he wasn`t in, so I left the ENTIRE message in detail with his boss. This still tickles me 15 years later. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If I were in Dazed shoes I would not be having sex with an active WS. I have expressed my thoughts to her about this issue on another thread. And I have followed Ron`s nightmarish saga.

I descibe it as tighrope because I think sex with an active WS is courting a potentially life threatening disaster.

Dazed is aware of the potential danger.