OK, so how do I tell my WH that he either needs to use protection or we don't have SF at all without love busting. As soon as I bring up the chance of him still sleeping with OW he is going to flip. He also says she has shown him results from her last STD test (I'll be sure to carry my results around with me to show potential men I sleep with). And he knows I've had one done and it's come back negative. He still thinks this woman is freakin Mother Teresa obviously so noway could she have an STD in his eyes.

This is going to be a HUGE LB. How do I deal with it?

Forget any LB. Your health is at stake. What's an LB if u r dead?

Tell your H no SF until he is clean and proves it with test results. This is more than NC. The stakes to return go up not down.

JMHO,
L.

Dazed:

I don't care what any other "expert" says about this...it is NEVER a LB to protect a boundary like that. This is your body, your life...so you can sweetly tell your WH that in respect of yourself you cannot have SF with him untill HE has been tested and has remained abstinent for 6 months....if you choose to still have sex with him (despite the upfront knowledge that you still could contract Herpes and HPV and other dideases then you should at least politely and kindly tell him that you must insist that he respect your body and use protection while he engages in SF with you.

A cheating husband is NOT going to want to hear those words, so don't expect a pat on the back, but just realize that it is NOT a LB to enforce this personal boundary. Anyone who tells you otherwise is clueless and should be ashamed of themsleves (yes, I realize that may infuriate some....tough !!)

Lem

Once you go into Plan B SF will be a moot point.

Get yourself tested again. Skanky OW`s cannot be trusted. Neither can foggy WS`s.

Daisy:

Thank you for setting such an excellent example for others who are faced with the same struggles and confusion.

LM

Everyone has their own opinion on sending Plan B letters to the OP. I did, and I'm glad of it. It was like a warning shot across the bow, saying I'm still here, and even though it looks like you're winning now, you're going to be the one slinking off alone into the sunset.

I think it sends a powerful message, and leaves them looking over their shoulder, as well as being more clingy and needy to the WS as they now have a modicum of doubt as to whether their 'soulmate' will always feel the same way.

That said, do what you believe is best for you.

Dr HArley recommends sending a copy of the plan b letter to the OP.

put on your asbestos suit ... I'm gonna flame you

The issues are that my WH easily manipulates me through the children and through work.

The issue is, you permit yourself to be manipulated.

He also just easily manipulates me in general and since I can't completely separate myself from him b/c of work and kids then it still gives him opportunity to manipulate me.

This had to begin somewhere, and it can only end when you become honest ... and stop yourself from giving in to your own weakness.

I don't even realize he's done it until I've already been drawn in.

Past tense might have been true ... but what you now recognize is YOUR habitual weakness YOU have the responsibility to stop yourself from continuing on making YOUR same mistakes over and over.



I grew up as I'm sure alot of people did with divorced parents. I was put in the middle of my parents arguments and drama constantly. I had to witness all of it and my parents hated each other. I don't want my kids to have to witness any of this or even feel for a minute that their parents can't get along.

... and yet, this is exactly what you have already created ... a weak woman and a bully of a man both making sure they never really get to relax and enjoy each other.

My WH knows this and will use it.

you selected/ married him for this challenge !!!

My DD is very in tune with my feelings and she can sense when something is even remotely wrong. If she feels anything amiss she will stand there and watch to make sure her mommy and daddy are ok.

just like you did as a child ... she's taking notes to make sure she marries a man just like Daddy so maybe she can retro-fix everything that was wrong when she was growing up !!!

[color:"red"] DO NOT REMOVE YOUR ASBESTOS JUST YET[/color]



He knows all he has to do is walk up to the door and I won't ignore him or say anything in front of my daughter.

and your daughter learns how to conflict avoid just like a pro !

Same thing at work, I won't jeopardize my job by not dealing with him. I can limit contact with him pretty well but again, if he pushes contact he knows I won't draw attention by saying/doing anything.

and that is YOUR fault, not his

My work has already been very patient and I don't want to talk to my boss about it b/c the city already has an issue with spouses working together and this would only prove their point more.

so, are you saying this situation is hopeless?

This would impact my job not his. He is a sgt., I am an admin asst. they will move me to a new position or get rid of me before they ever did anything to him.

get an attorney who specializes in job discrimination



I've mentioned having an intermediary to the only person I would ask and she didn't look like she would be very thrilled to be put in the middle and neither would her husband. They are extremely supportive of me but her husband is also friends with mine.

so are you saying this situation is hopeless?

We don't have any family that lives near us to act as an intermediary either.

so what?



These are the major reasons I have not gone to plan B b/c I know how well my WH manipulates me and I'm afraid that I really don't have the strength to uphold plan B.

if this is true... say this to yourself every 15 minutes for the remainder of your life ... ready?"

"I have chosen this life, and I have decided to accept this life without further complaint."

Sometimes I feel like I really have to have absolutely no love or feeling left for my H before I could stick to it.

What a chickenshyt childish approach to life... here's where you really need my boot up your [censored] ...

you are a conflict avoider ... and that is why your life is so messed up ... NOT because of your husband's willingness to inflict cruelty on you ... but because you willingly accept his cruelty.

Because of this .... you are a perfect match.

yin to yang

My parents divorce traumatized me so much that I feel like I really would remain married at all costs to myself.

well, then stop complaining right now ... you are chosing abuse, there it is!

My friends and co-workers keep asking me why I would even want to remain married to him and I'm running out of answers but I can't let go either.



Tell friends and co-workers.... I am a conflict avoider, I refuse to be responsible for my own happiness, and therefore I choose to stay in a situation where I can blame all my unhappiness on someone else. My misery is not my fault if I stay with him, it's all his fault. I am off the hook for being self-responsible.

I feel so pathetic.

You're not pathetic. You are simply committed to being helpless & hopeless. It's a lifestyle choice as much as his affair & meanness is his lifestyle choice.

What do you think your H found attractive about you when you were first falling in love?

10 bucks says ~~~> your willingness to sacrifice

but guess what?

After awhile, even a mentally abusive husband finds the weak-willed-sacrificing wife less and less attractive. He starts looking elsewhere.

Want to attract your husband back? Take the risk of changing yourself.

There it is sweetie.

straight talk

brutal
mean
harsh
callous

straight talk

"I am certain" some "nice" person on MB will come along and tell me now just how mean & harsh I am being...

but know this

I would have NEVER come onto your thread and said these things to you... had you not invited me

I love it when the betrayed finally stands up and takes a look at his/her OWN behaviors that enable the rotten situation ... and vows to change his/her self.

If you want to look into the future ~~~> go read Cherished's story.

a brutally unhappy marriage she continues to try and manage her husband instead of herself

until you can face your challenges of conflict avoiding ... I think I will leave you alone

BEST REGARDS

Pep the Hun

PS ... I also responded on Recovery. No asbestos required for that one! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Well, I just finished reading the response that PB left above to Inadazed. This reminds me of the old saying "Be careful what you wish for...you just may get it". This response by PB may quite very well be the best response to sum up a situation I have ever read on here. Not that Mrs Pepperband need any more accolades here but this is the honest to goodness truth. One cannot be any more clearer.

Inadazed: Re-read this post above a hundred times over here. Untill you accept and understand this, and CHOOSE to do differently, you'll be looking for the groundhog everyday.

Simply masterful

LM

I couldn't agree more.

Are you gonna flame me again if I ask how do I start to face the challenges of 33 years of conflict avoiding? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I asked for your help b/c I needed that straight talk, I got exactly what I asked for and I'm not sorry for inviting you in.

You are right, it irritates my WH that I don't stand up for myself. When I have stood up for myself I have seen the immediate but short lived change in my WH. He is more drawn to me.

Please help me learn how to stop being a conflict avoider. You are right. I am teaching my daughter to avoid conflict, I hadn't thought of it that way and I appreciate you pointing it out. I don't want her ending up in a marriage just like mine, trying to fix her past. And I don't want my son thinking it is ok to treat his wife like this.

1. call conflict avoiding what it is

another way to pretend you are OK when you are not

in other words

living a lie

2. start telling the truth to yourself

such as

"I have been one half of this abusive relationship because it was meeting my needs" ... not your healthy needs either

and... "I don't like myself the way I am"

Here is something I have learned:

Conflict is good for a relationship .... I refuse to do all your work for you ... lemme know when you can come up with at least 3 reasons conflict is good for you.

Pep

Conflict is good for a relationship because...

it helps prevent resentment from unspoken feelings
it helps each person maintain their individuality
it promotes honesty
it promotes more open communication

I don't expect you to do the work for me. I'm just asking for your help. I appreciate all of your time, energy and patience with me.

you done good ~~~ girl

now go pamper yourownsweetself!

Pep

MB has made me strong.

I was a lot like you, I think. Thankfully, my WH moved out before I knew of the affair, so I didn't have to deal with some of the issues you have to deal with.

There is A lot I want to say to you, so bear with me and excuse me if I ramble a bit. This thread and Pep's post brought out a lot of feeling in me, and I feel I need to share with you.

First off, in regards to the SF--I agree with everyone. You don't have an obligation to put your life at risk. And it is not a LB to protect yourself.

Something I had to learn--It is not a LB to do something that is in your best interest, even if it is gonna make the WS mad or angry. WS's aren't the only ones in a relationship. You can watch out for you and have boundaries for you and IT IS OKAY!!!

I think you have a lot of fear. Fear that he is gonna leave if you do the wrong thing. No more is your love for him motivating you to salvage this--it's your fear of losing him that is. I know this and understand this. But praise God I realized it and stopped FEARING my WH.

And if he does decide to leave and end it, it will have also been his choice. Remember that-HIS CHOICE! And he is responsible for his actions and his choices.

I had to remember--engrave in my mind--that this was all his choosing and his decision. We lived in the same marriage. He chose to stray and he chose to leave. I did not.

This fear you have is so paralyzing--I know. But stand up for yourself. YOU ARE WORTH IT! And that little girl of yours--she is worth it too!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks

You are 100% correct. It is my fear that is motivating me. It is not my fear of being alone though, it is my fear that he can/will replace me with OW. My fear that everything he has said and thinks will be true. It is my fear of this OW stepping in and living MY life. Possibly coming into my children's lives even for a little while. I fear that this woman will step in and all of our friends and WH's family will accept her b/c they too are conflict avoiders and don't want to let WH know how they really feel.

How did you finally let go of your fear?


You again are right. This fear IS EXTREMELY PARALYZING. I build myself up almost daily and as soon as I hear his voice I let my fear kick back in. I know my children and I deserve better than this. I took him by surprise the other day and told him that I do deserve better than this. I deserve an H that loves me as much as I love him. He didn't know what to say for a minute and then he agreed and said that he had been telling me that all along.

InTexas, can I ask you where at in Texas you live? I live in the Austin area.

I'm like 45 minutes from Austin, straight north off 35.

Inadaze--
The only way to get rid of this fear is to CHOOSE to no longer have it. To say enough is enough. To realize your worth, too.

A lady come up to me at church about two months ago, and said something along these lines: "I was praying for you and want you to know that I felt God wanted you to know that He knows all your hurts and wants to heal each one."

Know what? That threw me for a loop. Know why? Because I had focused so much on how WH had been feeling, etc, I didn't stop enough to realize I had these huge hurts,too.

He had such a control over me, and one day I just had enough. I realized that I had to CHOOSE to not let what he says get me, to not let the same old maniplation tricks get to me.

You're on the road there--you realize you've been manipulated. That's half the battle. Now just fight it. Stand up for you and for your kids. They go hand in hand now.

As for he and OW being happy ever after. Maybe for a bit. But really, would you be happy with such a weight and burden to carry that he has? Do you really only want him so he won't want her? YOU ARE WORTH MORE THAN THAT!!!!!! God wants good for you, too! Not just him.

That fear of all that happening might just be reality--but the alternative is not good for you or the kids. You need to understand that those are entirely his choices. But I can guarantee, you will be in a much better place than he will be. Guarantee it.

And do you take joy in that?

I don't. I take a minute here and there when I see trouble in paradise and the consequences of his choices coming to fruitation and I smile--but they are no where near what his reality will be one day. A reality that has to explain to the boys the whole truth. A reality of his choosing.

He will twist it all he can to make himself comfortable enough to live in his skin, but his soul--it will be hurting. His heart can be forgiven, but the scars--only heaven will remove them.

I am sorry if I have rambled on too much. I just saw some of me in you, and felt like I could maybe help a little.

Have you read "Love Must Be Tough" by Dobson?

I think it would be good for you. It helped me a TON~

Don't give up hope--but first, don't give up on yourself.

Wow you are close to me. I am about 10 minutes north of Austin. Maybe we could meet for lunch sometime it would be nice to meet a fellow MBer.

I have read Love Must Be Tough. Twice actually.


I don't take joy in that at all. That's part of my fear. I don't want him to regret his choices, I want him to learn from them now. I don't want him to live with the consequences, b/c it's not just him living with them. It's me and the kids too. I know that we are worth more than this, but we are also worth WH becoming a better man, husband and father again for us, not down the road after he's suffered the consequences of losing his family. I know I can't control him and that's part of my problem. I am a control freak. It is something I have just come to realize through all of this. I can't stand not being in control of a situation.

Is your divorce final? I remember reading one of your posts I think, about your house and your WH wanting to live in it with OW. Is that correct or am I thinking of someone else?

I really appreciate you posting on my thread.

That's the thing. That was me. I wanted better for WH. I knew i could make him better. I knew he would suffer horribly from this if he continued down this path. But I could not make his choices for him. Once that finally sunk in, I was free. Free from a burden I was not meant to carry.

He is his own person. I can pray for him, though. And I do. I can be civil with him. i can be nice to him. But I can have my boundaries. i can have my limits. And I can make good choices for me.

Fighting for my marriage was a good choice for me. I am a fighter. I overachieve. But also having a stopping point was great too.

I don't know your whole sitch, but I am thinking plan B all the way also--but only if you can stick to it. And on;y if you are ready to live with EITHER of the two outcomes from it:

1--He comes home and you work on this togehter.
2.--He doesn't come back and you continue to work on you.

Quite frankly--both choices are scary. But both are something you have to be ready for.

Something else I wanted to mention to you about the job sitch--Can you not find another job (partime, right?) so you do not work together? I mean, you are in the Austin area--jobs are available--i can help you find one if you want help!

ANd yes that was me you referring to in the post about the house. Had quite a conversation today with him about it and other things. He is moving full force ahead with OW--but trust me, happiness is not something I see coming from him. The divorce that he filed for is not final yet.
Are you a military family?

I am jumping in this conversation because I am curious. I am very very impressed with the insight and advice that Intexas has been able to deliver here. I hope and pray that she means what she says....Intexas: If your WH said he wanted to come back to you would you still take him back given everything he has done. Do you still harbor hope that since it is not (divorce) final that you can still recover with him. I am just curious. There is obviously NO right answer that I am looking for, I just want to know what you think.

When that "stopping" point came for me, it was a point of practically no return. For that to be reversed, it would have taken EXTRAORDINARY measures to be taken by the wayward. Since it is your husband who is filing for a dicorce, I wonder if you feel the same. For some odd reason, I don't feel the same is true for you. Perhaps I am wrong.

Lem