I would love that to be the case. I did tell her I'm sure you will be on the phone with H before I even get out of the parking lot, but I do wish you would keep this betwen us. I then also told her there was no way I was giving up on H and that if he ever filed D papers I would fight it in court for years.

Even if that is the case, if any of his family members contact him due to my e-mail, I'm sure I will see a reaction then. After he spits out every nasty word that he wishes he would have used in his life time (always has had a good guy image) he will then proceed to tell me I'm always trying to get someone on my side. To this I will say, No honey, I am trying to save our marriage. I still have faith in us. (But in my mind I would be thinking well what would it hurt to have someone on my side when you had the OW on your side with all the things you said about me)

Leslie:

Kudos to you for having the stones to face this OW. As bad as you think things are, they can always improve. There are marriages that have survived bankruptcy, other children, std's, etc...etc.....so, just rememeber that as you face this in your life. It's early, and your WH will go through many ups and downs and will UNDOUBTEDLY give your marriage another chance in some way, shape or form.

My biggest question to you is: "What are you doing for Leslie"? What are YOU doing to protect yourself emotionally and financially here? What are you changing in YOUR LIFE so that YOU can have a very prosperpous second half of your life NO MATTER what the wayward does?

Goodluck

Lem

Leslie, this is almost certainly a MLC with some overtones of the "knight in shining armor" syndrome. If the OW is unattractive, but needy, it's highly possible WH and she got together because she conveyed to him she was in some kind of difficulty. Many men react to that.

I was afraid you were going to say he internalizes everything. <sigh> I think it makes everything a couple of magnitudes more difficult and it certainly makes it more difficult to read his reactions. I'll bet he is very analytical too, isn't he? I suspect he can remember every wrong choice he ever made in his life, every mistake in his professional and personal life, but he has only a hazy idea of the things he's done right. I've met a lot of men, and women, like your husband.

You are almost certainly correct about suppressed anger finally coming to the surface in such a destructive way. I hope he IS seeing a counselor. He badly needs one.


********



As the opportunity presents itself, I'm wondering if he will react favorably to you telling him this, and hitting it from every angle you can think of. What do you think?

A thought: are you seeing a counselor? If you are, tell him/her what you’ve been doing and ask what things a person like your husband will respond best to so you can turn the marriage into a superior relationship.


********

I know you’re using phone calls to him to keep in touch with him, however tenuous a contact that might be. If, and when, you go into Plan B, you’ll be stopping those calls but you’re not there yet. Plan A is about making you and the home more attractive to entice him…to make him want to come to you. I’m rambling a bit, but since he isn’t reacting to these calls--in fact, he’s disrespecting you by not picking up--I was thinking you might add something to them.

For instance, if you call him on another occasion saying you wonder if he’s going to come over or cancel, add a little something to the call like, “…if you’re not, I was thinking of going to (the theatre…art show…race track…dinner) with (a close friend/co-worker/whomever). You can’t imply you’re going on a date, but if he gets the idea you’re doing okay without him being there, it can create more stress in FantasyLand.

It’s an adaptation of a technique we call the “180” here. Instead of you pursuing him quite as strenuously, you provoke his curiosity and interest by appearing to move away from him and letting him pursue you. I think it would need to be done delicately with your husband, but it might be effective. What do you think about that?

Hang in there. The road is going to be bumpy, but you’re going to be more than all right.

Awesome question, Let's see I have had a consultation with an attorney and while I haven't filed any type of papers, should I decide to, the laywer has told me what I can expect financialy. In addition since H is paying mortgage payment still I asked the attorney what happens if he stops? Her reply is we file papers then asking the court to require him to do so.

Personal Changes: Easy enough, In the last 5 weeks, I have done the follow:

Consulted with attorney so I know my rights
Confronted OW (built up my self- confidence tremendously)
Signed up for a motorcycle learn to ride class
Took entrance exam for colleget (found out I have to take algebra <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> )
Signing up for my first class towards and AA degree
Had my hair re-colored
Tons of reading (Surving an affair, Divorce Busting, Divorce Remedy, Love Busters)

Still learning and growning and getting stronger by the day though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yeah very analytical. He is an accountant by education, but not currently in that field. Even to this day he can never be spontenaous, always has to think about everything, but then even after giving him time to thnk he will never come out and give an answer.


That part I'm not sure of, he is a perfectionist, but I don't think I have ever heard hm say he screwed up with anything. Except for his racing that is. For some reason in that area he doesn't expect as much from himself so just accepts when he doesn't do well.

What he does seem to remember is everything anyone else has done wrong. And even then he is not one to want to talk about it, he just lets it fester up till now.


I really hope his anger is one of the things they are talking about.


Well tonight he came over and didn't even speak at first to me so I spoke to him. That seemed to open the door a little. I offered to fix a pizza for him but he said he wasn't hungry. Next time I'll just have something ready and if he eats it great if not that is okay also. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

He came in the house and said bye to me before he left, (big improvement over Sunday when he was here and left without saying bye) so I walked outside with him and was talking to him for a few minutes, told him to stand still for a second, he stopped, and I gave him a hug then looked up and our eyes met, I told him you know I love you and we can make our marriage better then before. "He said I know". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I also told him, you also know you can come home anytime right? He said yes.

Funny thing here, the other day I found a quarter on the ground and I picked it up and put it in my pocket, today there was another one there (hmm money tree tomorrow perhaps" j/k ) so he picked up the quarter and started to hand it to me, I told him to put it in his pocket that he was a lucky quarter that matches the one I found. He smiled at that and put it in his pocket. First time today I have seen him smile in a while.

The guy across the street was working on his car, so H told me I should see how much he would charge to put a starter on son's car. Anyway, I got a price on that. This guy use to talk to my h on a frequent basis so while H walked in the house for a minute I exposed H's affair to the guy and told him that I want to save my marriage and that while there is OW in H's life there is no marriage. I also told the guy that I am telling those that I feel have an influence with H . He replied I have no influence and I have enough of my own problems. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I hope he talks to H but no guarantees.

Also while H was here I mentioned that my truck needs new rear brakes and asked him where I should take it to. He said he would do them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Of course he said that about my oil change a few weekends ago and never did so I had to pay someone to do it. But that was when the OW was around so I'm leaving the door open to see if he does it this time. No mention to him about not doing the oil last time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I've been asking him for 5 weeks to help me get the pool clean and to show me how to operate the filter, up til tonight he would only say, you need to do this and this to it. Well tonight, he actually looked at the pool and said it could be vacuumend and that should clear it up. So I asked will you show me how to work the filter? He said yes, so I said "When" he replied Saturday.

Not putting a lot on tonight's actions, but still the most progress I have seen in the 5 weeks he has been gone plus even before that I can't remember that last time I saw him smile.

I never would have made it this far without the help,encouragement and suggestions from everyone here. I will take each little step I see as a step forward but expecting there to be many steps backward.


No, I saw a counselor once, and didn't like her and just haven't gotten around to trying to find another one. Just so many hours in a day if you know what I mean. Between watching grandson, trying to get enrolled in school and working 45-50 hours a week not a lot of time left.


Good idea, I might try that in the mean time. Right now though most times with the schedule mentioned above I'm just to tired to add much more especially since during the week it would mean I have to take the grandson with me


Somehow you always make me smile. A huge part of my having the courage to do what I have done so far is becuase of the way you and others have encouraged me so much and at the same time giving me things to think about and asking me questions that require me think. Without you and others here I NEVER would have had the courage to confront the OW and yet SO far (crossing fingers) I have seen the most turn around from him after I confronted him.

I still am not sure she told him yet.

GOSH SOMEHOW I ALWAYS SEEM TO WRITE NOVELS. Sorry I guess I'm what is considered long winded.

Very interesting evening. Keep him talking and there's no telling where this can go huh?

You're right, she may not have told him, but she'll get around to it. I wonder if he would suppress that too and just get on with things...maybe with a little feeling of relief?

You're doing fine. If everyone was as strong and proactive as you are, they would be in a lot better position in their recovery. Stay strong, lady.

You sound like you are doing well. Next time he is due over, be cooking something that makes the house smell delicious.

Put some flowers in a vase, and have the place sparkling clean.

My WH really noticed things like that. He told me it looked like I was doing fine without him.

Well darn, you mean I have to cook also. That will make my microwave mad at me. See we have this bond, the microwave knows I can't cook so it so graciously has these buttons on it for things like baked potato's, popcorn. Yeah that's it, how about baked potato's and popcorn? Think he would like that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Geeze if I gotta cook, it's over. I'm finished. That will make him run back to the OW for sure or have me committed. Just kidding, while I'm no chef in the kitchen sometimes I can manage to cook something without burning it.

I like this idea, I'm guessing he will think someone gave them to me though, which that's okay let him think that. [/quote]


Now here we go again, clean house, let's see where do I start, where is my vacumn cleaner, do I have a mop, do I have a duster. I guess I better get started looking for these things.

Just kidding. The house is clean (well the downstairs is) can't seem to get to the upstairs and keep the downstairs clean at the same time.

Wow, I'm in a great mood tonight, course tomorrow is another day but I'm thankful for tonight.

Check out flylady.com for tips on how to get the whole place clean easily. Don't sign up for email though, or they will send you emails all day telling you what to do.

I think I would sign up your grandson up for a playgroup or some kind of activity where he would be exposed to other kids. That will be good for court.

Grandson started pre-school this week. We are counting on it showing stability in his life when we go to Court.

Flylady tried her before, as you said her e-mails can be a bit much. House is actually looking pretty good. I try to clean at least one area a night.

Email I sent to H:

I hope you are having a great day and next time your boss brings you extra work tell him he should also be bringing you lunch at the same time.

I wasn't sure if you were planning on doing the brakes on my car on Saturday so I just wanted to give you heads up that I won't be here Saturday for a good part of the day so it will either have to be on Sunday or Monday (Holiday) or whatever fits in your schedule. Please just let me know so I can plan accordingly.

Also know you said you would show me how to operate the pump on Saturday, but not sure what time I will be home so if we can't do it on Saturday can we plan another time soon?

How do you feel about you and I sitting down and talking about what each need and or want from each other to make it where you want to come home and what it would take for each of us to commit to working on our marriage?

Love you always


H's Reply:

We worked all day on the ___ presentation so no time for lunch today. If not Saturday on the truck brakes then Sunday or Monday. Same with the pool. I'll probably use Saturday to work on my car. ______ (I removed the name here) said she does not want to see me any more. Please stop calling her. If nothing else please do this one thing for me. Thanks. My rent is due on Tuesday or Wednesday. I would like to avoid having to pay another week.

Sounds like he wants to come home to keep from paying anymore but doesn't sound like he is ready to work on us yet? Am I reading this right?

If this is the case, should I at least be HAPPY he's coming home even though no mention of us working things out?

Outstanding! Yes, you should be happy. He's talking to you again, when he wouldn't for so long and yes, without actually breaking down and saying it, he wants to come home. Sounds like you smashed FantasyLand into tiny little pieces.

Don't worry that he used an excuse like the rent. It's just that--an excuse. It does give you some insight though. He doesn't like staying at that hotel.

Bring him home and welcome him there, but make sure he understands you and he have a lot of work remaining because you want to make sure this never happens again. You and he need to agree you both want to make your marriage a zillion times better than it was before. Get his agreement on those things and you've made a big step toward recovery.

Here's where you establish some boundaries. Before he steps foot in the home, he needs to agree to absolute no contact (NC) with that woman ever again, period. He writes the letter and shows it to you, you mail it...the whole nine yards. There are examples here on MB if you need them. I don't know what other boundaries you want to set besides that and a firm commitment to work on the marriage. Perhaps MC can be made a separate boundary?

Some might consider MC a part of the commitment, but your husband will probably resist going to a counselor unless you make a point of it. (Maybe you can entice him into going by suggesting there are some things you haven't done right in your marriage and you want to get them off your chest?) Shop around for an experienced MC, one who is pro-marriage, and has experience with couples suffering from an infidelity in the marriage.

Technically, since you've broken up the affair, you don't go into Plan A...but heck, Plan A is a nice way for you both to start out in recovery while you finish some quick reading you need to do now. SAA has a lot on recovery techniques, etc., and you two need to absorb the information quickly. I thought you had lots of time to read SAA but you don't huh?

This is excellent news, Leslie. This is the first step on recovering your marriage. It’s ONLY the first step but it’s a huge one. Fantastic. Keep up the great work.

I think it's funny that prior to me confronting OW there was no talk of him coming home, wouldn't even talk to me, now even though he's not saying much he is showing possible interest in coming home. And to think I put off exposing the affair as long as I did. Seems like I could have nipped it in the bud sooner if I had listened to everyone here.

I'm going to follow up with a letter to OW about her staying away from H. I will also continue to try to reach her father by phone and I guess I'll go ahead and send him a letter.

Still dreading when he finds out I contacted his parents.

As much as I want him to come home, still scared to have him here. Before he left things were just so strained it felt like I was invisible to him. I'm not sure how well I'm gonn a handle this.

I want to install a key logger on his puter, but he brings home his laptop so it would be easy for him to spot, plus I'm sure he has desktop password protected. But I still want to find out if there is continued contact between them. Any suggestions, should I just trust him or continue to monitor till he shows he is trustworthy.

Oh one more thing, I think if he comes home next week then he should be able to pick up the phone and talk to me when I call, is that asking to much? Is that considered a selfish need on my part?

You may well have been able to break them up sometime in the past, but you did the exposure pretty darn quickly after coming to MB. Don't dwell on what might have been. You did a fine job once you got the information on what to do.

I would not send another letter to OW. Let the NC letter from your husband be THE final communication from you and yours to her. Your purpose in confronting her has already been served. You broke them up. Unless there's something very, very pressing she needs to know, I'd let sleeping dogs lie.

Yes, him not picking up (as a matter of policy) is disrespectful. There will be times, of course, when he can't, but those should be few and far between. This policy and other items are things that need to be POJA'd. That’s “Policy Of Joint Agreement.” Have you read SAA far enough to get to that subject? Like I said, you have a lot of studying to do in a short amount of time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Another POJA item. He needs to give you the administrator's PW on his laptop voluntarily so you can check his email, etc. If you want to install a keylogger too, do it. BTW, keyloggers can be set up so they cannot be found, even with virus scans and spy program detectors. You monitor until he's proven himself worthy of your trust again...and that could be years down the line.

Here’s another POJA thing. He needs to be completely transparent about where he is, who he's with, and what he's doing in his daily schedule. You and he need to talk at intervals during the day. Some recovering couples synchronize their lunch breaks and talk for at least a portion of them. Others call and talk during their drives home from work.

Radical honesty is another POJA requirement. No more lies; no more hiding things, whether it’s deceiving you about where he is at lunch time or a hidden bank account with $15,000 in it. There are others, but you should read about them as you absorb the later chapters of SAA. Dr. Harley wrote them all down and did it in fine style.

Again, kudos on breaking them up.

Going to read the Policy of Joint Agreement here ia a few minutes, then come back. I'm sure I will have some questions on it. His email didn't sound like he wanted to come back and work on us, more like it was strictly for financal reasons. What happens if he won't agree to the Policy of Joint Agreement?

Yeah, financial reasons are a fine excuse. Your husband has a history of not being upfront with his emotions. I'm not surprised in the least that he used an excuse to cover up a deeper reason. If you want, use POJA before he comes home permanently.

I would be very careful about taking him back suddenly. Why don't you post another thread saying WH wants to come back -to avoid paying rent?

Now is the most power you will ever have to change your marriage for the future.

Believer has it right. I believe I'm guilty of wanting to rush ahead too quickly. Most, if not all, of the things I've spoken of should be discussed and agreed upon before he comes back home. If it's not done in that order, he'll surely try to resume his old patterns and that's not good. Thanks for reminding me, believer

Longhorn - I learned from Melody, and others, when my WH wanted to move home. That's why this site is so great. I posted at work when he called and told me he was moving in.
A couple hours later, I stopped him - and even had to go to court in the meantime.

Leslie,

I'm very happy to read your update! You are a amazon-exposure-goddess (just made that up, hope you like it). Good job.

I agree that the next contact to the OW should be a NC Letter from your H. This may be a good time to call for a counseling session with the Harleys to ask them how best to proceed and how to phrase things to keep the path home welcoming, but with the appropriate precautions in place to rebuild the M. You can also ask about further exposure.

Keep us posted and don't forget that there are generally ups & downs even after the A is over.

Have a great weekend!