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Joined: Oct 2001
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Where is his OWNERSHIP of affair? Where is the REPENTANCE?

that is my only concern.

It sounds forced.


me:37 BS; s:7; xh:38; OW:26;eloped w/OW 1 wk after D: 12/29/03. OC born 3/17/04. Happy! Blessed to be the mother of a wonderful son..great profession..Life's good!
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Accept it, and let him know how much it means to you that he is willing to do this. Then try to take the pressure off, and relax.

The letter is not the greatest, but it is enough.

Sometimes WS's write no contact letters, and turn around and have contact, but usually they refuse.

I would send it, and breathe a sigh of relief.

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Thank you believer I was hoping someone would agree to accept it. I was more then suprised that he was willing to write it.


BS (Me)- 47 WH - 55 OW 29 and single Married- 25 yrs 2 sons 21 and 28 1 grandson 3.5 years old D-Day- April 17, 2006 Confronted OW 05/23/2006 WH living with OW since April 06 Confronted OW 05/23/2006W BS (Me) wants to make our marriage work H not sure H brings up idea of coming home on 05/25/06 but sounds like it's for Fianancial reasons 05/28/06 H at OW's apartment again 5/29/06 Confronted OW again 6/5/06 H moved back home 6/7/06 First MC appt
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You haven't been around here too long. A NC letter is the litmus test for me. Sure, they could write it, and continue contact, but mostly they don't.

The majority of the WS's refuse to write one. I don't know why, but that is how it usually goes. They say they are not ready, don't want to hurt the OP, there is no reason to write one as it is over, it is pointless, blah, blah, blah.

So while your husband could still continue contact, the fact that he is willing is BIG to me.

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Leslie, I'm inclined to say take that letter and run with it. The name of the document is a "No Contact" letter, after all. Frankly, this is a model of brevity and doesn't have a bit of sympathy for OW in it anywhere. I'd accept it myself.

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Ditto believer and Longhorn...and congratulations, Leslie...

big hugs

LA

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Leslie,
I think its fine...it cuts to the chase...doesn't try to spare her anything.

I asked my WH to write a NC last year, he delayed...then finally said he thought it was silly a piece of paper. Never did the NC letter. 1 month later he was back in contact.

Its a giant babystep! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


aka-confused42
BS-45 me
WH-42
DS-14 & DD-12
together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs
"I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04
D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06
5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06
Recovery finally began Jan 2007
We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
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Thanks everyone. Needless to say I am smiling tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Hubby is coming home. I guess he understood this was one of my boundaries. Slowing going to work on the transparency issues.

Yeah I know this is where the real work begins.


BS (Me)- 47 WH - 55 OW 29 and single Married- 25 yrs 2 sons 21 and 28 1 grandson 3.5 years old D-Day- April 17, 2006 Confronted OW 05/23/2006 WH living with OW since April 06 Confronted OW 05/23/2006W BS (Me) wants to make our marriage work H not sure H brings up idea of coming home on 05/25/06 but sounds like it's for Fianancial reasons 05/28/06 H at OW's apartment again 5/29/06 Confronted OW again 6/5/06 H moved back home 6/7/06 First MC appt
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Just remember, he will be in withdrawal. Don't expect ANYTHING right now. He won't be sorry, so don't look for that. Later he will be.

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Yeah I have noticed already there seems to be no remorse. It's been one week and one day that I know for sure since he has seen here. If there has been any contact since then I'm not aware of it, though I know it's possible.

Any idea even though it's different for everyone before I see some remorse?


BS (Me)- 47 WH - 55 OW 29 and single Married- 25 yrs 2 sons 21 and 28 1 grandson 3.5 years old D-Day- April 17, 2006 Confronted OW 05/23/2006 WH living with OW since April 06 Confronted OW 05/23/2006W BS (Me) wants to make our marriage work H not sure H brings up idea of coming home on 05/25/06 but sounds like it's for Fianancial reasons 05/28/06 H at OW's apartment again 5/29/06 Confronted OW again 6/5/06 H moved back home 6/7/06 First MC appt
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I don't think you will begin to see remorse for a while yet. You'll have to be deep into recovery before he understands on a gut level what he's done to you and the marriage.

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Leslie:

I agree with what everyone here is saying. Great that he wrote the NC LETTER and is willing to send it and don't expect to see remorse YET.

Most importantly, follow the guidelines below (from one of the Question and Answer columns but also in SAA). If we had adhered to these EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS AND RULES OF MARITAL RECOVERY from the very beginning of my H's first attempt at NC and RECOVERY , I truly believe that the FALSE RECOVERIES could have been prevented. I am pasting this here in its entirety because ALL THAT IS SAID HERE IS SO SO CRUCIAL! We follow these precautions and guidelines during our almost 3 year REAL RECOVERY and now our marriage is WONDERFUL!!

Quote
Extraordinary Precautions to Avoid A Former Lover
To help you totally separate from your lover, and avoid the temptation to see him when you crave him the most, I suggest the following extraordinary precautions:

1. Honesty

The first extraordinary precaution to avoid your lover is to tell your husband all about your affair, and the decision you have made to restore your love for him. Then promise to keep telling him the truth about every aspect of your life, so you never again have a secret second life where you are tempted to hurt him behind his back.

Honesty and openness is one of the best ways to prevent yourself from being inconsiderate of your husband's feelings. It was your friend's threat to reveal all to your husband that motivated you to separate from your lover. Your friend wanted to shed to light of day on the things you were doing in secret to protect your husband. But you should do it yourself. Go right to your husband with the facts. If you had been honest about your budding relationship with your lover from the beginning, it would never have developed into an affair.

You may be afraid that once your husband knows the facts about your ongoing affair, he will leave you. Quite frankly, I think he has the right to make that decision. If, faced with the facts he decides to divorce you, you lose your option to restore your relationship with your him. But you simply cannot build a relationship on lies and deception. Dishonesty will never get you to your goal of loving your husband again. So it's better to get all of the cards out on the table now and build your marriage the right way, even if there is a chance that your husband will throw in the towel before you have a chance to reconcile.

Another reason you may be reluctant to tell your husband the truth is that he might have a violent reaction to what you have done. If you are afraid of his reaction, separate from him first, and then tell him the truth in a public place or with friends who can protect you. If your husband cannot control his temper once he knows the facts, then I see no hope of saving your marriage. Honesty is so important in marriage that if the threat of violence prevents honesty, I don't believe you will ever have a good marriage.

Besides, dishonesty does not prevent violence in marriage, it encourages it. If your honesty brings out violence in your husband, your dishonesty would enrage him even more, once he discovers that you've lied to him.

If you think your husband may divorce you or become violent when you are honest with him, I encourage you to be honest anyway, before you begin your plan for reconciliation. If he cannot accept the truth, no plan of reconciliation will work.

2. Account for Your Time.

Once you have established a willingness to be completely honest with your husband, then continue to be honest with him about all of your activities. Make sure he knows about everything you do throughout the day. Give him a complete schedule of your activities, and let him know which of those activities make you most tempted to contact your former lover. Try to avoid people and places that increase your craving to be with him.

3. Spend As Much of Your Time with Your Husband as Possible.

During withdrawal, there is not much your husband can do to deposit love units into your Love Bank. But it still makes sense for you to be together as much as possible. That's because the more you are with him, the less you will be tempted to contact your lover. Try to have lunch together, talk on the telephone several times a day, and be sure to spend evenings and weekends together.

In many cases, I have suggested that a husband and wife go on a three-week vacation together during the first few weeks of withdrawal, just to help the wayward spouse avoid contacting the former lover. I tell these couples not to expect too many love units to be deposited, but by getting away from the reminders of the lover, they find that such a vacation greatly reduces the time it takes for withdrawal. Besides, the distractions of a vacation can often compensate for the depression that accompanies withdrawal, and makes the experience much less painful.

Sometimes a wayward spouse feels like getting away from everyone during withdrawal, and going on the vacation alone. But it doesn't work. It's too tempting to call the lover, and in many cases the lover ends up joining the wayward spouse.

If you go with your husband on this vacation, you will not feel like being very romantic with him. He should expect very little from you, because you will be recovering from your addiction to your lover. It's only after the craving for your lover subsides, and your depression lifts that you will be able to give your husband the opportunity to deposit all the love units it takes for you to be in love with him again.

Of course, your husband must be very careful to avoid making matters worse by saying and doing anything that would upset you. Granted, he may not be very happy about your affair, but if he wants you to love him again, he must avoid withdrawing love units at all costs. He must be with you as much as possible, yet avoid anger, disrespect and demands, which are all Love Busters. He must also be careful to take your feelings into account whenever you make decisions.

If you slip, and contact your lover in spite of the extraordinary precautions you take, tell you husband about it immediately. Then, improve your extraordinary precautions to include the condition that caused the slip. Keep improving them until it becomes virtually impossible for you to contact your lover. A slip will set you back emotionally, but it does not mean that your recovery plan has been ruined. It simply needs an upgrade.

In many cases, I have encouraged couples to relocate to a different part of the country to avoid contact with a lover. It's a good example of an extraordinary precaution upgrade, when it became apparent that contact with a lover could not be avoided when living in the same city. It goes without saying that when lovers are fellow employees, a job change is absolutely essential to marital recovery. How is total separation from a former lover possible when you work together?

You asked if you should avoid using the internet, since it reminds you of your lover, and tempts you to contact him. I'm sure you can anticipate my answer. I suggest that you stay away from the internet until you are through withdrawal, and you have restored your love to your husband again. Then, I think it would be safe for you to return to it again.


Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery
After you are through withdrawal from the addiction to your lover, your depression will have lifted and you will no longer feel a craving to talk to your lover. At that time you will be ready to put into place rules that will guide you and your husband toward a deep love for each other. After you have followed the rules for a while (six months to two years), you and your husband will be soul-mates.

These are the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery that you and your husband should follow to help you restore your love for eachother:

1. The Rule of Protection: Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.

If you and your husband want to be in love with each other, you must build your Love Bank accounts. But before you build them, you must be sure there are no leaks in the Love Bank. It's pointless to deposit love units into a sieve, where every deposit is promptly withdrawn by a Love Buster. So you must make a special effort to plug up those leaks by committing yourselves to avoid being the cause of each other's unhappiness.

The most obvious things spouses do to ruin their love for each other is what I call Love Busters. They are angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, annoying behavior, selfish demands and dishonesty. I describe these destructive habits in my basic concepts, but if you need special help learning how to avoid them, I suggest you read, Love Busters: Overcoming Habits that Destroy Romantic Love. This book will help you identify the Love Busters that keep emptying your Love Bank accounts, and show you how to stop inflicting them on each other.

Most of the Q&A columns I've posted on the Marriage Builders&#65454; web site focuses attention on the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). This policy protects both you and your husband from each other thoughtless decisions. Your affair was a blatant example of thoughtlessness on your part because you knew it would hurt your husband, but you went ahead and did it anyway. The Policy of Joint Agreement is a very important guide to helping you keep the Rule of Protection. That's because it helps you realize that anything you do that hurts your husband is off limits to you, regardless of how wonderful it makes you feel.

If you had followed the Policy of Joint Agreement, you would never have had an affair. But the Policy will also help you avoid hurting each other in a host of other ways, too. My book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love, can help you learn how to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, and use it to negotiate agreements that are fair for both of you. Once you learn to negotiate with each other fairly, you will have learned how to follow the Rule of Protection.

2. The Rule of Care: Meet your spouse's most important emotional needs.

The way to deposit the most love units is to meet a person's most important emotional needs. Your lover did that when he wrote you all those e-mail letters because conversation was your most important emotional need. After one month of filling your Love Bank with thousands of love units that were e-mailed to you, you found him irresistible -- you were in love with him.

Conversation is not your only important emotional need. Affection, recreational companionship, admiration and sexual fulfillment may be some of the other important emotional needs that your lover met. Unless your husband eventually meets your must important needs as well as your lover met them, you will be frustrated and at risk for another affair.

Sometimes a spouse must learn to meet a need that he or she has never been very effective in meeting. Many of the spouses I've counseled have had to learn to be affectionate for the first time in their lives. They also have had to learn to be stimulating conversationalists and skilled lovers. They have had to learn to provide greater financial support, become more effective in their parenting skills and learn to become admiring instead of being critical. New habits that lead to need fulfillment can be learned by anyone. All it takes is a plan and willingness to follow it until expert level is achieved.

But your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs. An important reason that you had an affair was that your husband's work schedule prevented him from giving you the attention you craved from him. When you and your husband agree to follow this second Rule to Recovery, his work schedule will no longer stand between you, because meeting your needs will become your husband's highest priority. All the needs that your lover was meeting for you will be met by your husband in the future.

If you need help identifying and learning how to meet each other's important emotional needs, I suggest you read, His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-proof Marriage. It describes the ten most important emotional needs for men and women, and how to become an expert at meeting those needs. When your husband has learned to meet your needs, he will be depositing so many love units that his account in your Love Bank will be overflowing. By then, you will be thoroughly convinced that leaving your lover to rebuild your marriage was the right decision to make.

3: The Rule of Time: Give your spouse your undivided attention.

You indicated in your letter that it was the lack of your spouse's attention that drove you into the arms of your lover. But it may have been more a lack of time than a lack of attention. As I already mentioned, your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs, but unless he sets aside enough time to do it, all of his skill does you no good at all. It's the man who gives you time for undivided attention who will win your heart.

I suggest that you and your husband plan to spend at least 15 hours each week together, giving each other your undivided attention. Use that time to meet each other's emotional needs for affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. I have found that if that amount of time is taken to meet emotional needs, you can spend the rest of your 100 waking hours each week doing just about anything you please, without any risk to your love for each other. But if you do not set aside that time, your good intentions will not buy you a single love unit.

Since most everything we do must be scheduled or we don't do it, I suggest you take about a half an hour each week (say, Sunday afternoon from 3:30 to 4:00) to schedule your time together for the next week. Get out your schedules and write each other into your appointment books. Once scheduled, don't let anything interfere with your time together.

I suggest spending the same days and times together every week because it's easier to remember than a new time each week. Besides, you can be better emotionally prepared to be with each other if you always know that Tuesday evening you will be together from 7 to 10.

I also suggest that you spend time together when you have plenty of energy. Don't give each other the leftovers, give each other the best of yourselves. That's why I generally rule out time together after 11:00 pm. For one thing, you need your sleep for the challenges of the next day, and for another, there are not too many people who are at their best that late at night.

Finally, I suggest that you spread your time out every week, giving each other at least one hour of undivided attention every day. I am generally opposed to cramming all of your time together into a marathon weekend of 15 hours, because undivided attention is required, and 15 hours of anything makes undivided attention almost impossible.

4. The Rule of Honesty: Be completely honest with your spouse.

We have already discussed honesty as an extraordinary precaution to prevent you from contacting your lover, so I won't say much more about it. But what you begin as an extraordinary precaution, must become the standard way you and your husband communicate with each other -- with openness and honesty.

You have not been honest with your husband. If you had been honest, you could never have had an affair. Your honesty is your husband's greatest protection because it lets him know what you are up to. It also helps you both make adjustments to each other. Instead of having an affair, you should have told him how unhappy you were with his negligence of you, and how you were falling in love with another man who would give you his time and attention. If you had ended the budding relationship then, and focused on getting more of your husband's undivided attention, you would not have put both of you through such an ordeal.

The Basic Concepts section of this web site contains a section entitled, "the Policy of Radical Honesty." It outlines precisely what the rule of honesty is. It's complete honesty. I want you to read it over very carefully, because it explains precisely how honest you and your husband are to be with each other.

But be careful not to let Love Busters ruin the purity and value of honesty. Keep anger, disrespect and demands out of your honest expression of facts and feelings. If you can do that, you will find your honesty will not only help you find solutions to your problems, but it will also draw you closer together, and help you become the soul-mates that you can be.

If you are willing to permanently end your relationship with your lover (never see or communicate with him again), get through withdrawal, and then you and your husband follow the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery, I guarantee you that you will have a great marriage. And I also guarantee you that neither of you will ever suffer through an affair again.


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Update,

I am finally mailing the NC letter today. After H e-mailed me the letter I had to copy and past into Word, then of course had to wait another day to get H to sign it. It's now sitting on my desk, ready for me to mail today. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

H moved back home Monday. I haven't seen him much since then as Monday night he had to go to hotel and get his stuff so didn't get home till 9:00 p.m. (Typically his usual time in the past was 7:00 p.m.) so nothing unusual about ariving home when he did. I gave him his space when he got home and I think I went to bed about 10:30.

Tuesday, School for H. (6 - 10 p.m.) By the time he got home I was in bed. I really thought long and hard about driving over to OW's house last night just to verify that his car wasn't there, but for whatever reason I just didn't do it.

Hubby has slept on couch both nights. His choice.

Today is our first MC session. I'm so sick to my stomach not knowing what to expect. Wondering how to protect myself emotionally if H says things I can't handle. Hoping I can keep calm and listen. Wondering if H will say he doesn't really wanna be married. Just really really scared here.

Wow, first day I have cried in the last several days. I guess it's just fear of the unknown. Any idea what I can expect to happen today?


BS (Me)- 47 WH - 55 OW 29 and single Married- 25 yrs 2 sons 21 and 28 1 grandson 3.5 years old D-Day- April 17, 2006 Confronted OW 05/23/2006 WH living with OW since April 06 Confronted OW 05/23/2006W BS (Me) wants to make our marriage work H not sure H brings up idea of coming home on 05/25/06 but sounds like it's for Fianancial reasons 05/28/06 H at OW's apartment again 5/29/06 Confronted OW again 6/5/06 H moved back home 6/7/06 First MC appt
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Don't get upset about MC. Many WS's refuse to go. Who knows what he will say? He may say he never loved you, the marriage was a mistake, he loves the OW, blah, blah, blah. Remember, he may be in withdrawal.

Be glad you have the chance to hear what he has to say. My WH left and never said anything.

If I were you, I would mostly listen. Don't worry about defending yourself. You can let him know that you want a better marriage than before the affair, and are willing to work toward that.

It would be better that he gets his feelings out, rather than just sit there.

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I agree with Believer...better to mainly listen and don't be defensive.

Expect that he will continue to mostly blame you and will not be as remorseful yet.

He may say that he is returning home because it is the "right" thing.

Early on, I would tell my H, "I know you will love me again".

I had the knowledge and understanding that he had to go through WITHDRAWAL from her.

For my H, withdrawal lasted 3 to 6 months. If anything, make sure to focus on his need to be able to withstand withdrawal and ask him how you can help him with this.

It will be a while before he is able to meet your emotional needs adequately.

It's hard, I know.

Hang in there, Leslie.

You really have done great!!!


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The MC session will probably be an exploratory ("get to know each other") session, more than anything else, and you probably won't find out too much. Perhaps you'll be able to detect a few things about where your husband stands and you'll be able to refine your strategy. Stay strong, Leslie.

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First Counseling Session Over - Basically it was just a tell the counselor what was going on. First thing I noticed was H had his wedding ring back on (wondering if this was just for show).

H pretty much sat there and gave Yes or No answers to anything counselor asked, until the counselor got wise and decided to ask questions that couldn't be answered with a simple yes or no.

Counselor asked H why he came home and he gave two of the reasons I thought he would (didn't give the third) his replies were, Hotel was costing him a lot of money, and he wanted harrassament of ow to stop. The third answer I was waiting to hear him say was because his "toys" (go cart, motorcycle, etc) were at the house. None of this was new to me though.

Counselor then asked him if he felt he had an emotional connection to the OW and H replied Yes. No surprise on that one. Then the counselor asked him how he was doing since the break up with the OW, H replied it was hard at first but getting better now. (His actions sure don't show that, still seems to be in a fog)

Counselor reinforced that we need to do things together even if it's something the other one doesn't like, at least initailly, because this way perhaps the one that doesn't like it could learn to like it. Hubby disagreed with counselor on this one (surprised he actually spoke up and said something) he said why should the other one have to go if they would just be bored with it (talking about me going racing with him) said he would just feel rushed. The counselor said, as long as you have that mindset you will feel rushed.

Counselor gave us each a questioneer to feel out and bring back next time. He said not to show it to each other. It's a how does your marriage rate questioneer.

I told the counselor that I was committed to our marriage but that I can't do it alone. H has to open the door and continue to take steps. Counselor agreed. I also told counselor that I need a transparency marriage. No comment from H on this one, but wasn't expecting one. If nothing else it felt good to be able to say some things I wanted H to know.

I'm curious how H will act tonight and if he will still have his ring on. I'm not going to make any comments about todays session unless H does.

Since so much of today's session was just a fill the counselor in type of session, I'm sure each one from here on out will probe deeper and reveal more and more as we go along. I'm sure H's anger will come out in one of them.


BS (Me)- 47 WH - 55 OW 29 and single Married- 25 yrs 2 sons 21 and 28 1 grandson 3.5 years old D-Day- April 17, 2006 Confronted OW 05/23/2006 WH living with OW since April 06 Confronted OW 05/23/2006W BS (Me) wants to make our marriage work H not sure H brings up idea of coming home on 05/25/06 but sounds like it's for Fianancial reasons 05/28/06 H at OW's apartment again 5/29/06 Confronted OW again 6/5/06 H moved back home 6/7/06 First MC appt
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Quote
... the counselor asked him how he was doing since the break up with the OW, H replied it was hard at first but getting better now...

Sounds like withdrawal to me. I think it's getting better faster than with the normal wayward spouse. I base this strictly on your words, but I don't think he's the type of person who would form a really deep emotional attachment in as short a time as he had with her.

That's good, but I think it's also indicative of a problem that you're going to have to explore very deeply in the counseling. Frankly, your husband has this made up issue of the "harassment of the OW" to get past, but I suspect your counselor is not going to let your husband draw that out too long. Once past that, it seems your husband doesn’t have too much on his agenda. I think he will be inclined to relax slowly back into the same old pattern of life before adultery.

That’s the problem. You’re no longer willing to settle for that and, in truth, you cannot. You didn’t say much about your counselor, but the few things you did make me believe you’re satisfied he’s experienced and able. That’s good, because once the immediate issues surrounding the adultery are settled, things like his conflict-avoidance, his reclusive nature, and his penchant for secretiveness have to be explored. My mind keeps dredging up that secret account of his that has $15,000 in it, for instance.

Oh, well. Sounds like a good first session that will set the groundwork for more productive ones later on. Stay with it, Leslie.

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It's so GREAT that your H is willing to go to counseling.

Mine never did..except for sessions with Steve Harley.

I suggest that you THANK HIM for going.

It's impressive to me.


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Quote
My mind keeps dredging up that secret account of his that has $15,000 in it, for instance.

I brought how in counseling about the secrecy that is going on (passwords on desktop, cell phone) and I even said secret bank accounts. Actually the exact words I used were, "The secrecy has to stop in regards to "secret bank accounts that H didn't know I knew about before now, investments and evertying else that is password protected". Granted there was no time to dwell to much on any of this but at least it's out in the open that I know about it.

I also told MC that I was committed to my marriage but that I can not and will not do it alone. I said I want H however I can make it on my own.

You are right though LH, I Will not settle for what we had before. It wasn't good for me then only thing is then I put up with it out of fear, now I am stronger and know if it comes down to it, I can take care of things on my own.


BS (Me)- 47 WH - 55 OW 29 and single Married- 25 yrs 2 sons 21 and 28 1 grandson 3.5 years old D-Day- April 17, 2006 Confronted OW 05/23/2006 WH living with OW since April 06 Confronted OW 05/23/2006W BS (Me) wants to make our marriage work H not sure H brings up idea of coming home on 05/25/06 but sounds like it's for Fianancial reasons 05/28/06 H at OW's apartment again 5/29/06 Confronted OW again 6/5/06 H moved back home 6/7/06 First MC appt
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