Mimi and LH,

Both of you have given me such welcome thoughts and suggestions. I truely listen to both of you, however sometimes I take part of what one of you says and part of what the other says and do a combination of what is suggested.

Please both of you continue to give me your thoughts and suggestions as it is very much appreciated here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This is what I have been thinking all along. I surely know that I don't have all the answer..I'm no expert..Still struggling along in RECOVERY, personal and marital, myself...

If you don't hear from me in the next few days, it's because we are going away for a few days..YIPPEE..

Hang tough, Leslie! You are doing great! I hope everything goes as well as can be expected at your counseling session.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

H told me several days ago he lost his cell phone. I'm sure he thinks I have it even though he hasn't said so. Anyway I know his phone can't be used without unlocking it. He checked son's car and it's not there. He said he checked the account the other day and there were no calls on it which would make sense if the phone is missing and locked.

Anyway, I decided to log on to the cell phone website and since I don't know the password to access the account on line I asked him the password. His reply was "I don't remember". (HUGE RED FLAG) so then I said, how do you check the account on line then? His reply was it's saved in his browser. He is talking about his computer at work. Since he frequently brings this computer home (unfortunatly he didn't tonight) I couldn't have him log on the account tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Needless to say, I don't believe him and now all the steps he has taken up to this point have just gone out the window. I do not believe he forgot. He can't request a password retrieval that is sent to the phone since he can't find the phone.

It truely makes me sad that his is not willing to share this information and I can't help but wonder what he's hiding. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I don't know Leslie. If he lets his web browser put in the password, he might not remember his password. I'm pretty sure I remember my email password, but I'm not entirely sure. I've had Outlook supplying the PW since I got the program. On top of that, I have a couple of subscriptions to sports sites and on one of them, I had to ask for the PW to be sent to me just before the NFL draft. Can you defer the question on this matter until tomorrow evening when he's had the opportunity to bring his laptop home (at your request, of course)? I can't imagine he would be able to delete calls off the online billing record.

LH,

You are so good at not letting me jump the gun and assume things. Thank you for suggesting that. I had already condemned H and was ready to hang him. Okay so a little exageration there.

I think it's an excellent suggestion. This gives H a chance to follow through on something I ask him. I think I will wait till Friday though since he has school tomorrow night which makes an extremelly long night for him.

Curious though LH, tell me a little about yourself. Where you even in a similar situation? Or are you just the angel sitting next to me guiding me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Either way, TY so much for your suggestions. I never would have made it this far without the advice I was given here. I honestly think H would still be involved in the affair if you didn't keep "pushing" "encouraging" me to expose the affair.

Not only that there have been many times that you have kept me from doing a lot of love busting.

I think one day you will look back and me and know I was your and mimi's star pupil. I will be a testimony of what the applying the principals on this board have the capability of doing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You and MiMi are the best. Sometimes your suggestions are in conflict with each other, but that's pretty cool, because it gives me different view points and allows me to see other options.

P.S. I'll fill you in tomorrow and what happens in counseling.

Not fair MiMi, I wanna go. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I hope you have a terriffic time.

Just applying what I've learned out here from others, Leslie. If it hadn't been me, it would have been someone else urging you to get proactive--it's what we all do. Don't forget to give yourself some kudos there. We all out here get to do the easy stuff and just pass suggestions along. You're the one who has to do all the heavy lifting here. Keep up the great work!

Tonight was a nice night with H. We worked on cleaning the pool together for a bit. Then I put grandson to bed and now H is putting batteries in my bicycle light.

I let him know that I really enjoyed the night tonight.

I asked him if I fixed him Lasagna (use to be one of his favorites) for Father's Day if he would eat it. (For the last couple of years he has given up eating red meat). He said Yes. Then I asked him if he would rather go out to eat or have the lasagna. He said either one was okay. I think Lasagna would be more of a giving from the heart so lasagna it will be.[color:"red"]I hate lasagna [/color] So guess that means I will be cooking sometime this weekend. Just not sure where the time will come from. [color:"yellow"] I think I need to hire a cook, anyone want to volunteer?[/color]

My weekend schedule so far:

[color:"red"]Friday:[/color]

Work - 6:00 - 4:00
Dinner with boss 4:00 - 5:15
Motorcycle Class - 6:00 - 10:00 p.m.

[color:"red"]Saturday:[/color]

Motorcycle Class - 8:00 - 5:00 p.m.
Payroll - 6:00 till I feel comfortable leaving

[color:"red"]Sunday:[/color] [color:"yellow"]FATHER'S DAY[/color]

Motorcycle Class - Sunday 8:00 - 5:00 p.m.
Payroll - Sunday 6:00 till I finish
Two school asignments due by midnight

Okay so I'm rambling again. Actually was playing with the color codes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Have fun with the color codes. I can see italics and bold face type are next, aren't they?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Let us know how that motorcycle riding class comes out. Busy, busy, busy...

2nd MC Session:

We started to go over the marital questioneer that was given to us each individually to complete that we were to discuss this week. We got through 2 of the questions then based on those two answers counselor veered off on how it appears that H and I have always had a problem talking.

For me I want to talk about everything and H has always been one to Not talk about anything. H said he has to much "anger" to talk and has nothing left anymore. Counselor made him elaborate on this and asked him why he had the affair, "H said because he wanted a life". MC then said that he really thinks that if H and I learn to talk to each other we can have a life together. He asked us both if we are willing to do this. I immediately said "Yes" that I was willing to do whatever it takes. H said "Yes".

The MC said that H needs to get some of this anger off his chest and since counselor wants us to learn to talk to each other he gave us the following assignment:

H is suppose to sit down with me and tell me some of the things he is angry about. My job is to listen. (going to buy me a suit of armor before then). Originally this was to take place sometime before the next session. I told counselor that I did not want to walk on egg shells all week wondering when H was going to do this. Counselor then set a time that this is to happen. Saturday 7:00 p.m. I asked the counselor if this means that I am not allowed to show emotion of anything H says. He said NO it doesn't mean that.

MC asked H if he was grieving over the OW and missed her. H was finally honest and said yes. I guess when I asked H the other night if he missed her he didn't want to admit it to me. At least the truth came out.

I'm going to hold out hope that h will continue with MC'g. I'm not sure that he will because the counselor is going to push H to feel things that H doesn't want to feel. I hope I'm wrong about H not continuing MC, but time will tell.

I have a pit in my stomach dreading Saturday but knowing H needs to be able to vent his anger. I honestly just wish it was going to be done more of in a "controlled environment" such as in a MC session.

Anyone else have a counselor tell them to do this? What should I expect? How am I suppose to react? How do I listen without trying to explain? How do I shut off my emotions that day? I don't want to cry, but afraid H may be cruel or hurtful yet I want him to get it out, so we can work on whatever he is angry about.

I'm kind of surprised that since this is such a "big" issue for you guys that your counselor doesn't want to do it in a session with him.

Prior to appt w/ your H, come to an agreement that if it you become uncomfortable you take a break and resume when tempers have cooled. Try not to interupt him, you are likely to hear a lot of fog logic...that made sense to him at the time.

I’m a little surprised the counselor has gone off on a tangent and decided to fix the underlying causes of marital discord before dealing with the immediate fallout from the infidelity. He’s the professional though. He must have seen some indicators in your and your husband’s answers to those questions that lead him to believe addressing long-standing problems will take care of many issues.

Your counselor has proposed a technique I’ve seen used before. Often a couple will sit down together and have a session like this to resolve issues one or the other didn’t feel like he or she could bring up before. At times, these meetings have definite time limits and they often have other sessions where the “griping” goes in the other direction. In future sessions, if I were you, I would make sure some information goes in the opposite direction even if this first one is only to address his desire for "a life."

Okay, as for how to get through Saturday, you detach for as long as it takes him to get these things off his chest. For as long as the session lasts, set it firmly in your mind these things he's complaining about do not apply to you. They're about someone else and nothing he says can hurt you because of that.

I think if you can start from that premise, it will give you just that tiny bit of a buffer between his anger and your need to defend yourself. Be as businesslike as you possibly can.

I suspect your counselor has already advised you to accept what he has to say as his truth for the purposes of the discussion whether they have any validity or not because this is the way he feels rather than these being ideas he’s reasoned his way through. Once they are out in the open, they can be worked on logically. That having been said, you should react to what he says if that’s the format your counselor has set up. (On occasion, these sessions are set up with the proviso that the other party not respond at all so long as the session is ongoing.) If he begins to go out into left field, bring him back, but do it in an unemotional, professional manner…just as you would someone in a business meeting you were in.

Leslie, the one thing you can’t do is get angry in return or so emotional you lose control. If things get too intense, suggest a potty break or get a soda from the refrigerator. I’m sure you know that instinctively but it’s important enough that I think it’s worth saying anyway. Expect to be surprised by some of the things he says and expect some of them to hurt. Get these things out in the open and you both can find resolutions for them that suit both of you. This might be a good time for you to bring up with him (and your counselor) the concept of POJA. What do you think? Along with you, I’ll keep my fingers crossed he continues with the counseling.

I look at things this way. Your husband agreed to see a counselor and didn’t find an excuse to get out of it, he’s agreed to have these “venting” meetings, and he’s agreed you and he have a future if you can resolve the marriage’s problems. Leslie, I see those as big concessions from a conflict-avoider, introverted person such as he. What a tremendous amount of progress you’ve made from this time last month, huh?

I guess the Counselor is thinking we can't work on current issues until H gets past the anger. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Granted I am not a perfect person, I have made many mistakes along the way which I do take responsbility and accountability for. But to hear H say he has so much anger is making me angrier by the second.

I feel like if he follows through on this assignment that he is going to put anything and everything I've ever done or said under a microscope. I'm sure not many of us will do well under those conditons after being married 25 years and together 2 years prior to that.

The counselor asked me today if I was angry like my H and I said no, right now I'm more hurt then anything. It's quickly changing to anger though.

Kinda funny though yesterday it seems like our youngest son kept calling H and when H didn't respond the way son wanted him to, son would hang up the phone. This happened numerous times. I told H that son owes him an apology. H said that is how he felt also. Yet H has never once the whole time we have been married apologized for anything that I can remember. The counselor asked H how he felt when I have apologized for things, H said it makes him mad!!! I wonder if it's because he feels guilty that he hasn't ever told me he is sorry for anything.

I'm actually glad I won't see H for the next cpl of days, (well I'll see him but not for long) tonight he has school, and tomorrow starts my bike class. Then Saturday all day is bike class.

Saturday will be the first full day that I have been gone and H will have the day free with out wondering if I will pop home any minutes. This worries me because it would be so easy for him to go to OW's apt. I don't think I can take it anymore if he goes over there.

LH while those may be signs of progress for H as you said, they are still being done at my expense. I am becoming H's punching bag (not as in hitting, but as in words). H agreeing and actually following through are two different things. It's true things appear different from last month but are they really? Sure he's no longer staying at the OW's house nor in a hotel, but he's still not here. He doesn't even act like he wants to be here. From my perception if that's the case then why doesn't he just get the H*** out?

Hi Leslie --

I haven't posted to you before, but I've followed your thread. When my H and I went through counseling, we went through this same process, but in her office -- a two-hour session -- NOT by ourselves. I think this was because she saw the chance of the conversation deteriorating into non-productive stuff.

Did your MC give you guidelines on what to do if you're feeling overwhelmed or too emotional during this? Is there a "time-out" clause?

I'm just curious, because doing this with her there -- I totally trusted her -- was EXTREMELY helpful to me and crucial in getting through this exercise in a way that didn't create more harm for either of us.

Take care!
Shellybird

Hi Shellybird,

Thank you for reading and following my post and posting here for me to read.

I mentioned to the MC that I thought H might be more comfortable (funny, how I think of him first huh?) doing this in a controlled environment such as in a MC sesson. Counselor's reply was, H and I really need to start learning how to talk to each other. (Funny though, I don't look at this assignement as talking to each other, feels more like an up coming war but with only party (H) armed.) Counselor wants to use the sessions in ways that will help us learn to talk to each other.

Couselor did say 15 minutes but said this may take more then one session for H to finish venting.

I asked about the emotions and he said it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to show emotions. However I know that if I show emotions it will shut H down even further. I figure I'm going to have to find a deep place inside myself and retreat to that place (if I can find it) and most importantly try to safe guard my emotions so that H can't hurt me even more. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I find it sad when I feel that I have to safe guard my emotions from the one that promised to love me forever and to foresake all others.

My heart tells me that Saturday will be life turning night for us, and could actually work the opposite way then it's intended. This may cause H to begin to be able to work through the anger but in turn can cause me to shut down. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I am scared of H's anger (not physically) but I have never seen him angry and I don't like knowing that in his eyes I am the cause of his anger.

It is taking every bit of willpower and strength I have now to even want to be in the same house with him.

Stay strong, Leslie. This is hard and we all know it. Try to fight off the resentment as long as you can, until you can deal with it in MC. It's something just about every betrayed spouses must fight through and there's not a betrayed spouse out here that got through it easily. Right now is the most difficult time because most of it's about WH and trying to convince him to recommit to the marriage. It seems like everything that happens is at the expense of the betrayed one while all the attention is focused on the wayward one. That will change. Keep working the program you mapped out and, day by day, things will begin to turn around.

Last night was the first motorcycle class - just classroom training. That went fairly well. I was almost over my cold then the classroom was cold and the AC was blowing right on me, so now, seems like I have a cold all over again. (Headache, tired, sneezing, stuffed up nose)

Today was the first day on the course, I did okay for the first half then it went downhill from there. I have never driven anything before that had a required me to change gears. I kept stalling out the bike. SO while it was an interesting class, right now it's not for me. I don't have the ability now to concentrate on much.

I was afraid of that when I signed up for the class, but I'm okay with it. One day when my thinking process returns to normal, I will give it another try.

Getting close to "blast off" time. H is suppose to tell me what he's so angry over tonight. I was hoping to find a "stress ball" in the store today so I could squeeze be squeezing this while H was venting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Store didn't have one.

Last night I got to thinking, (scarey thought) anyway, I wondered what I would tell H if MC told me to tell H everything I was mad over. I couldn't think of anything that would fit in that category. I would have to say I'm more hurt over everything. Does this mean the anger stage hasn't hit me? Or that I don't know the difference between hurt and anger?

It is 7:15 here. H was suppose to come in at 7 and tell me what he's angry about.

I'm as ready as I possible can be. His father's day dinner is finished (Lasagna) I won't have time to make it tommorrow. The house smells great from from the lasagna.

I've taken a shower, washed my hair, put on make up and dressed up slightly (shorts and blouse) now it's just a wiating game to see if he follows through.

I'm not sure where he will want to do this at, since our son is upstairs, or if he will use our son being here as an excuse to not follow through. Since he doesn't seem to want to spend time with me, I doubt he will suggest going for a drive or in the car.

I know this has to be hard for him also, to finally open up, and I know it's needed but darn it, I don't wanna be the one that is attacked.

Should I acknowledge anything he says, or just keep silent? When he is done, should I hug him or thank him since I know it will be hard for him or should I not say anything?

I think you should just let him talk...acknowledge what he says, don't interupt, ask for clarification if you need to. It sounds like the "stage" is set. At the end play it by ear for the hug. Thank him for his honesty.