Leslie, if you get a chance, read Ark's ^^ post about being a Lighthouse. It shows you the way to shine bright !!

And, don't worry about being the only one working on the M, that is pretty common with BS.

Plan A, Plan A, Plan A ---

then Plan B.


carnation

Orchid: Glad u r on the rigth track.

As for the OOPC subject, there is no pleasant way. Just find a time where he is not too busy, ask for his attention (can I ask u a question?), then bring it up. Something like:

BS: Can I ask you a question?

WS: What?

BS: Hmmmmm..... if u r in a bad mood, I can save it for later.

WS: Not in a bad mood....what do you want?

BS: Hm.... sure does feel like a bad mood. I will come back later. (then leave)

....... 2 hours later.....

Ws: Ok, I"m ok now....what did you want to tell me?

BS: Well been thinking about the protection order hearing. R U going?

WS: Do you want me to go?

BS: (give your answer - assume you said yes)

Ws: Ok I will go

BS: Hm.... to support who?

WS: hm.... well.... to support u of course.

BS: Really? How can we be sure? (notice the we and no I)

Now depending on his response (in words, facial expression and deed), you decide if you want him there.

If he does not go, who will be your support?

L.

Trying to stay positive and up beat here. I didn't do any LB'g over the weekend. Whenever I felt that I might, I would go for a drive. It's so hard though. I really think H just wants out of the marriage. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

It's not like he's mean to me. He will talk to me (idle talk - which is what I've kept the conversation to this weekend). He's been home all weekend. I took in initiative and invited him to go shoot pool over the weekend but he didn't want to go. I accepted his reply w/o LB'g and that was one of the times I went for a drive. I haven't cried all weekend, I've just tried to keep busy.

I know he talked to the OW right around the same time the Order of Protection was taken out, not sure if he saw her then or not but I'm still going on the assumption that there is NC right now. I am also guessing (hoping) that he is going through withdrawal.

He's still sleeping on the couch, (even though I did let him know he's welcome to return to the bedroom anytime he wants).

The questions I have for others here are:

1. Is it normal that he is sleeping on the couch?
2. No affection from H at all, yet I read other post where WS is so affectionate or there is SF still there, Why?
3. How does one know when Plan A is not working?

Thank you Orchid. I will try that Tuesday night. I had no idea how to bring it up and I was really trying to have a good weekend without LB'g since he has no school Tuesday night, I'll give it a try then.

Oh, Leslie...Hugs to you...

I know it's sooo hard BUT you will need to find a way to accept and to understand that he DOES WANT OUT OF THE MARRIAGE... RIGHT NOW. He is "in love" with the OW because he has allowed HER to fill his love bank. The reality of it is that he is having an affair....and that's what an affair involves...You are probably saying..DUH..I know this..but it makes me wonder when you question whether or not he WANTS out of the marriage. He can WANT but he is not OUT OF THE MARRIAGE. He is living there with you. Plus, just because he has this desire NOW does not mean that this can't change. According to MB theory, LOVE IS A VERB. He can FALL IN LOVE WITH YOU AGAIN. I am testimony to that. My H actually said to me: "FACE IT, IT'S OVER, I DON'T LOVE YOU ANYMORE" as he left me the last time. NOW, he most definitely is IN LOVE with ME again. Steve Harley told me and I will never ever forget: "If he loved you once, he can love you again" and I repeated this to my H. Steve Harley was right.

The main thing that you can do is to STICK WITH YOUR PLANS. Now, PLAN A. Most probably, soon a PLAN B. In your PLAN A, are you smelling sweet, keeping the house clean, cooking meals, staying upbeat, music playing? Yes, invite him to sleep in HIS bed with you!

I doubt that there is NC. He probably was with her when he was MIA and she did the Order of Protection. She wants to feel safe when she is with him...SIGH..then YUCK...She got his sympathy that way. She is gaming to destroy you and your marriage. You have got to STAY IN THE FIGHT and not GIVE UP. THIS IS A WAR.





Focus on meeting his ENs and PLAN A definitely IS WORKING whether he lets you know this now or not.

PLAN A works often during PLAN B when he has to rely on her to meet ALL OF HIS ENS. She will fail. He will miss the you that you are during PLAN A. Your goal now is to create LASTING MEMORIES. THINK..maybe I asked you this before..WHAT ATTRACTED HIM TO YOU in the beginning of your relationship? What special desires/likes of his do you know that she does not? For example, it may seem petty but I use a special barbecue sauce on my chicken. So, when my FWH asked the OW to cook him barbecue chicken, she was clueless. He didn't tell her about the sauce. She got the WRONG SAUCE. He says that when he bought the kind I use and left it in the cupboard,she didn't use it..threw it away..LBer of hers among many during PLAN B. He missed that CHICKEN and lots of other things. Another example..early in our courtship, many, many years ago, I used to always burn candles..mating ritual. So, early on in Plan A, I started buying candles again...I am a YANKEE CANDLE fanatic... Guess who lights all of my candles each evening now? He liked that and missed that over there with her, I guess...

Focus on your guesses as to what your H's likes are. Steve Harley turned me on to this, suggesting that I go back to what I did when we were courting. Many middle-age men, going through a crisis, are desiring that romance again and think that us CRONES..or shall I say, GODDESSES... can't reignite that passion. They are so mistaken about this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Thank you Mimi. You words of encouragement are part of what keeps me going. I'm off to do payroll this morning but will think about what you posted.

I know this is part of it, I haven't come to the point where I can accept that he "THINKS" he wants out. One of the things I do know though is if he REALLY wanted out he would have filed D papers already. At least this is what I keep telling myself.

I have to guess what his EN's are since he won't let me fill them. So I have to do my best to fill them even without his help.

I keep telling myself that H fell in love with me once and that even if he's not in love with me now he can fall in love with me again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Things I am doing so far - house is clean, (more so then it's ever been before - not sure this was ever that important to H though since he is a slob)

Making his coffee before I leave for work in the mornings since I'm the first one to leave

Can't do the candles as odors (perfume, candles etc give him a headache.

Trying to do more cooking now then before - Since our boys got older we had drifted to a prepare your own dinner (grilling out on the weekends). The other night I bought chicken and steak and h grilled. I fixed side items to go with it. H while not a picky eater rarely eats red meat. His dinner for the longest time was Tostitos and Salsa. Tonight I will fix a roast and have cookies baking. (This should make the house smell nice) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I will wash his clothes today. For the last week I let his laundry pile up. (Guess this was my rebellious side kicking in)

I will try finding a "blues" station on the radio and have that on when H comes home. (Thanks for the tip) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As far as looking nice for him, I've never let myself go physically. I am not one to toot my horn normally but on the physical side, the OW has nothing on me. She is heavier then I am. (This will eventaully be a LB'r for H because he takes pride in keeping himself physically fit.) What she does have on me is age. I'm sure her being so much younger then him strokes his ego quite a bit. (However there is nothing I can do about the age difference though) I do give him lots of compliments (trying to feel his EN for him)


I figure you are right on the above. He has total sympathy for her and NONE for me. However if they are in contact the amount of time has diminished drastically. He was home all weekend. No idea if they talked via phone or not. But I decided I can't dwell on if they are seeing each other or not because when I do that is all I can focus on and it drains to much out of me.


Sad to say Mimi, but part of it I think is because I was one of the first women to show interest in him. The things I did when we were courting was to be available to him. I remember once when I was suppose to call him and I feel asleep he was angry the next day and asked me why I didn't call.

He's not the man I married anymore. The one I married was kind, soft spoken, never heard a bad word come out of his mouth, rarely drank a beer (now him and son are going through 3-4 6 packs a week at least) When he looked at me I saw love in his eyes. He was the rock of our family for so many years, dependable, affectionate and loving.

Now this alien has taken over his body and mind. I know I will never get the man I married back but I also know that if H would just try (I've heard so many times how he doesn't and can't try now - so I'm trying for both of us) we can have a much better, more fullfilling marriage then before.

Honestly now though the only things that seem to matter to H are money, and his racing. Those are tough things to fight against.

I think the OW was just an escape for him initially, and now he feels he is protecting her from me so he is her Knight in shining armor. Then of course there was the sex (We had always had a fullfilling sex life before H's affair) and of course they can both talk about how horrible and crazy I am.

I'm going to continue to do and be the best I can and fill the EN's that I can. While I can only guess at them I am trying. As I'm sure you know he's not acknowledging any of them and I'm not expecting him to I'm just hoping he notices.

That's because he's a WH....

What does your intuition say about what HE NEEDS from you? You can trust your gut.

I recall him saying that he wants to HAVE FUN...so I would think in terms of what you guys did in the very beginning to HAVE FUN...

What do YOU do to HAVE FUN?



SUPER DUPER!!!



Remember...he will NOT TRY until he has had NC with her for 3 to 6 months..I obsessively kept this in mind..it purposefully lowers your expectations of HIM..and you are able to focus on YOURSELF and what YOU need to do...



I think you are right about this..THE PRETTY WOMAN SYNDROME (referring to the movie which I hate now because my FWH is able to quote Richard Gere)..my FWH and his OW must have watched it alot..YUCK...

So you NEED his "HELP" with things...you are wanting to ask him to "HELP YOU" with this and that..including with going to court...you certainly "RESPECT" his opinion....

This is a biggy...He craves your RESPECT . That is what she is offering him as a YOUNG WOMAN...



This is controversial...your choice about this. This was a major part of my Plan A. I was "PASSIVELY SEDUCTIVE" and my H responded..moved back into the bed..smelled "sweet"..became more unhibited about my body..letting certain things show...YOU GET THE GIST here...



GREAT! GREAT! GREAT!

Racing is so important to him, why don't you try and show an interest in his racing. My H is a big hunter/fisher/outdoorsy type. When in plan A, I really started showing interest in these things- and beleive me, it added lots to his LB. He loves it when I go camping, fishing, etc with him. I get bored with fishing, and could live without ever fishing again- but I do it to fulfill his EN for recreation- and it pays off for me.
Go to a race with him- and find a way to enjoy it- be his cheerleader! I cannot imagine that he would not love that. He wants to see that you are able to have fun. Go to a race, and cheer him on , and have FUN! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Couple of things on this one: H gets more vacation time then I do. He typically is gone 4 days (Thur - Sun) when racing. I can't get that much time off. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

When this was mentioned in MC'g, H said he would feel rushed if I went. I even said we could take an extra day when he goes and then on that day do something I would enjoy.

I took motorcycle riding lessons (had to drop them because I was sick and to emotional at the time) thinking that would be something H and I could enjoy doing together. Now he says he has no interest in riding bikes on the street (to dangerous) that the only way he wants to ride them is if he's racing one.

Finally one of the most hurtful comments me made was that I am "always inviting myself" to go places with him. This puzzled me because for the better part of 5 years he has gone racing alone or with our son. (I am trying to consider this WS babble) but that comment hurt so much.

Next thing I tried doing after his comment about having fun was to suggest Ice Skating. I have no idea if either one ouf would enjoy it, (never gone) but thought what the heck lets try it.

The problem is H has no desire right now to spend any time with me.

Well I'm mentally in a good place right now.

Last night I fixed Dijon Chicken served over rice, New Potatos, Mixed Veggies and had watermellon for dessert. I made in invitation inviting him to join me for dinner and had it where H would see it when he got home. (Made sure both boys and grandson were gone) NO candles, didn't want to overkill. I saw the invitation in the garbage can, but it was at least opened. (trying not to take offense) He did sit at the table with me and eat. Not even a Thank You. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

H slept on couch again last night. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> This morning I was upset that he was not sleeping in our bed, then I came to a peace within myself and have decided I will not LB, I will Plan A but I will also think of H as a roommate and see if this backing off helps some.

I asked H why he is still sleeping on the couch. His reply, That was where he feels comfortable at. I thanked him for his reply and said I understand. Months ago he would not have even bothered to answer.

I rearranged the bedroom today. H hasn't seen it yet. (I wonder what he will think when he does)

When I asked H if he plans on going to court, he replied No. I also asked him if he was with her when OW filed the Order of Protection Papers on me, his reply was "No". I said, it's funny that it happenened while you were MIA. Anyway I told him I think he should go to court and support me. Then things go quiet so I started doing laundry. (The seed is planted) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know we all have our way of working through things and our own time frame. In a lot of cases I have been trying to put H on my time frame instead of letting him work on his own. See I'm getting smarter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Since I can't control H's time frame all I control is my own and I am starting to accept this. This doens't mean I'm giving up, it simply means when I've had enough then I will make the right decision for me at that point.

Leslie:

GREAT! GREAT! GREAT!

Believe me, he is noticing.

A SUPERB PLAN A!!!

Keep it up.

Plan A is about YOU...being the best person that YOU can be. YOU will feel better about YOURSELF in the end.

Leslie,

Take a look at your list, here's what I see:

1. BS: U fix a nice dinner
Ws: No appreciation

2. WS sleeps on the couch - says he is more comfortable there.
BS: knows this is WS babble - so do we.

3. BS: Asks if H will go to court with her.
WS: (not H mind you) says no.

Now what would you think if you read this on someone else's thread?

Take a long hard look and then if you want we can get you on a plan....for your personal recovery. U have already started this journey but got a bit side tracked dealing with the WS. Let's get you back on track, ok?

L.

Orchid:

I'm not sure what you are saying to Leslie.

WSes typically do not show a response to Plan A.

Her WH's reactions seem typical to me.

What type of PLAN does she need help on in your opinion?

I'm not necessarily being critical of you.

I wonder what your thinking is so that I can understand where you are going with this.

Plus, Leslie is "at peace". That's great for her.

Orchid,

I guess I'm confused. Please explain.

Mimi & Leslie,

No problem, let me clarify.

I want Leslie to see how the Ws is still a WS regardless of how nice or LB a BS may be. As a BS, Leslie did not LB nor was she disrespectful. That's good but the WS is being a blantant azz all over the place.

Now, what t/d? Remember these are JMHOs.

1. Nice dinner? Nope. Just make what takes care of you and your family. Why? Because he doesn't appreciate your effort.

2. WS wants to sleep on the couch? No problem, but you don't have to allow the 'couch to remain 'comfortable'. You know....how kids leave stuff lying around on and under the cushions of the couch? Why? Because he is giving you a line of bull and while you can't tell him what t/d, you can keep the WS in him from being comfortable. In other words, remove his exucse.

3. Now his lack of supporting you in this court thing has been furious.....good thing I am just a poster here and NOT you. Ok,....... but if I were you, I'd go find several supporters (character witnesses for your defense) and take them to court with you. That should at the very least shame the WS. If some of those supporters are guys.....all the better. This is one time your support group can pull together 4 u.

The goal is NOT to make things nice or comfortable for the WS but for your H. When he acts like a WS, start removing that comfort zone. If you allow the WS to get comfortable, what motivation is there for the WS to leave? The longer a WS remains in your home as a Ws, the harder it w/b for you as a BS and family.

Hope that clarifys it up a bit.

L.

Believe me this won't be a habit. He talked about grilling today but of course he never followed through. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Dinner has been cooked tonight (something that I like, he can choose to eat or not) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Downstairs between the Living Room and the Den we have 3 couches and 2 loveseats. He has chosen to sleep in the LR nearest the Front Door. Our youngest son has a habit of coming home at odd hours. I'm sure he is woken up repeatibly during the night. Unfortunatly the room he is sleeping in is one that is not commonly used, so it's always kept clean.

This morning at 6:00 a.m. I started laundry. Again this is downstairs. I wasn't woried about being overly quiet.


I'm not surprised at his lack of support. He is in his own little world. He's not working on the marriage, he's simply here. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I know he hasn't seen the OW since he's been back home but I'm not convinced there is no contact. Unfortunatly I'm a lone wolf fighting for my marriage alone other then the help I get here (which has saved many sanity on more then on occassion). Other then my son's, my boss (who can't come since she is back up person for payroll - court is on a date that payroll has to be done) and the people here no one knows what is going on. I have no one to go to Court with me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I am not proud of the fact the the OW is scared of me. It actually makes me feel ashamed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I'm not one to hurt someone. I would rather take the hurt on myself.

I do have a question about court though, I had previously told H that I would take care of the utility bills (electric, cable, water, gas and phone) this will probably wind up coming up close to $500. Amazing enough that is what the lawyer is going to charge to represent me. I've thought about telling H he will have to cover these since I have to pay the lawyer to defend me over something that was caused by his affair. (Problem I have is going back on my word) Opinions?

I've got an idea on this one, thinking I'll pay the utility bills this month since I gave my word, and I'll pay the lawyer, but I will tell him that since I had to pay the attorney he will have to cover the bills next month. This way I will be sticking to my word. (GOOD IDEA)?

I do understand where you are coming from and I guess I have a hard time between not LB'g on one hand and treating H as a w/s. We are still in MC'g (although I'm considering changing to IC'g).

I guess for the most part I see that at some point I will have to do a Plan B and I am trying to do as many nice things as I can so that if and when the time comes that Plan B is implemented then he will have some good memories.

Isn't Part of Plan A - taking care of my needs (clean house, rearrange bedroom to suite me) and building up his love bank points? Or is that not until recovery efforts are made by H?

Strange thing though, Our cat just died 2 days ago, H is so mournful over that that he has done the following, "Cried, wrote a poem and framed it, put flowers on top of where he buried the cat. Now don't get me wrong, I understand the feelings of loss for the cat but since he can feel how can he be so cold and unfeeling towards me?

Please continue to give me help. I am hard headed at times but eventually it finally clicks in.

((( Leslie )))

Just a few thoughts, not an expert here, so don't take what I say too seriously.

About the cat ~ your wh is an emotional mess. Seems how they normally act about now.. not too unusual at all.

The OW is afraid of you ~ NOT, I do not believe it. She is just trying to make you look *bad*, in my opinion. You are the bad one, she is the good one.... what she wants your WH to think anyway.

Try real, real hard not to LB. Just completely start thinking of your WH in a different way.

You love him. He is your husband. You are trying to win back his love.

Repeat ten times !!! lol

If I was you, I would stay in a real good Plan A. For awhile longer. Like I said, just my opinion. Not an expert. But he is weakening a little, turn up the heat. Subtle, but nicely....

Dear God, Please continue to watch over our Angel, Leslie. Help her get strong Dear God. Help her win this fight.

Carnation

Plan A is definitely about improving yourself and taking care of yourself. Unfortunately if he is still in contact w/OW he is blocking (or trying to block) deposits to love bank. Thats why he can't/won't show appreciation.

OW in my case was afraid of me starting "trouble". As if!! She wore the victim role how OWH & I were making her our to be a betch. Ironically I never said one mean word about her. I just didn't like that she was dating my H...
My WH sided w/her that she shouldn't be blamed for our M failing. GAG me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I'm not sure I feel safe posting here anymore but I still have some questions about Plan B. Last night I know H was gone at least 3-4 hours, his explaination first when asked was he went to get beer (yeah, right) next time when I continued asking saying "Let's be Honest", His answer he was driving around, (nope don't buy that one either)..So Here are my questions:

When is it time to go to Plan B?

Is Plan B done via Legal Seperation?

Who should go?

If I choose to stay in the house, how can I get H to continue to pay mortgate?

Do you give a time limit for spouse to move out?

Pros and Cons of Legal Seperation?