Hi,

I posted this on recovery, but hoped for more input. I have been trying to recover the M on my own for quite awhile. I've grown weary of the struggle, don't know if I am being realistic about the situation and could use other's advice.

My current sitch is this;

-I was told he loved me but not in love with me in Jan '03, wanted a divorce. This was when the PA was very active. (I didn't know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ) Made no move for the divorce, just stayed and blamed all M problems on me, wouldn't talk about M.
-May '03 WH refused to talk about M, I was depressed and started to exercise to relive stress, overdid it and fractured my leg, went on reduced hours due to pain. WH "worked" (ow was a co-worker)even longer hours, didn't help with kids.
-July '03 WH was laid off. WH bought business in OH w/o my agreement with his 401-K, our LOC on house, credit cards, and a loan from the seller, his friend, who put a lien on our house.
-Sept. '03 D-day, WH moves to OH. Again, wants a divorce, makes no moves for one. Promises NC, lies, went to MC, didn't work. I continue to grovel, cry, plead, beg, anything, to stay M, sick, right?
-Contact continues, denial by WH thru May '04. Rollar coaster emotions. I told my employer in March '04 of the move, I didn't say I may be divorced.
-June I went to our priest for advice, he thought bc of WH's pattern of more than 1 A, it could be considered abuse. Also advised if there was anyway I could reach out to WH to try to help him, that I should, but that ultimately God wouldn't want me to suffer.
-Sold house and moved to OH 10/04. Put key-logger on computers, find out continued C throughout this yr. Our R was going well, I thought, but something not quite right, WH was acting strange. Lots of SF, very different then usual.
-D-day 2, find e-mails/text messages. WH says to OW he is only with me for financial reasons, bc his business isn't going well. OW appeared to have been trying to figure out if she was going to D her OWH and go w/WH, WH told her we were getting a D, didn't know about me coming here or our buying a house. OW got angry, then apologized after he said he was only with me for $. She said "don't you think I could take care of you?" Puke, Puke.
-NC e-mail written to OW, no mention of loving me, his making a mistake w/her, hurting me or the kids, only that he was going to try to make it work with me.
-Financially, we are in the hole big-time at this pt. due to his biz. The biz continued to lose money due to various reasons. Very disorganized, piles of papers and stuff everywhere. Books and record not set-up, taxes not paid.
-I'm an accountant, at this pt. even though it would help me in the long run to get this all straightened out, I refuse bc I'm being a jerk and punishing him. This went on until Jan. '06. I have since put all of the records on Quickbooks, reconciled the bank accounts from '03 - present. Have job-costing for profitability. My sister helps with the marketing, free of charge. Our eldest son has worked at the business for almost a year, w/o pay as the business doesn't make money.
-WH hasn't read books, wouldn't take the EN questionaires, wouldn't do counseling until I insisted in July -'05 when I found out our middle son withdrew from college due to he found out about the A and became depressed.
-Had to pull any details about the A out of WH, I know this is common. He never said he would do whatever it took for me/us to heal. He is very defensive. I have tried to make the envirnment as open and non-judgemental and non-emotional as I could, but he was never forth-coming with much, it was I don't know, I don't remember... There are times he says he didn't handle his problems in the right way, he should have come to me first. This provided me some hope.
-Plus side, he said he forced himself at first to be affectionate towards me, now he doesn't have to force himself. He is kind and considerate, most of the time (hey, he's human!).
-Biz continues to lose money, mostly due to errors on his and my eldest son's mistakes. I am currently working but the job will end soon.
-We can barely hang on financially, we may have to file for bancruptcy and sell the biz at a loss.
-I took out 2 loans from my 401-K, one to pay off the loan for the biz, one to survive and allow my son to continue college. Also took cash advances on my credit cards for the biz.
-Since 2-day, WH has been more distracted/absent minded than usual (he has untreated ADD) and acts depressed. I finally pressured him, along with sons and his sister, to seek treatment. He doesn't take the AD's, feels it is a placebo, also affects his SF abilities. Tells me he isn't taking it due to SF affects as I share how frustrated I am about this issue. This reinforces to me that he isn't attracted to me as he hasn't taken the medication for nearly 2 mo., but he denies this.
-I stop making MC appts. as we don't discuss anything until the drive in to the appt. WH doesn't do much at the biz, wanders around, plays games on the computer. Our eldest son does 75% of the work.
-I have shared with him when I stop trying to have discussions with him about the R/M, that means I've given up, I know his view is everything is great bc we don't have these discussions!
-Our sons continue to be negatively affected by all of this. All 3 know of the A, resent him and me bc of the move to OH from NJ. WH had 1 unsatisfying discussion with the two eldest at Thanksgiving time bc they had asked him for awhile, and finally demanded he speak with them. He didn't apologize for what he did, didn't take responsibility and tried to say problems in the M caused the A. They were displeased and lost respect for him.
-I try to not be in the middle, my usual role, but when my sons hurt, watch out, I'm a lion! I too lost respect for him. I thought if our son's hurt, he would do anything to try to help them, but he didn't. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
-YS cries, he misses his friends, he hasn't fit into a group in HS. He doesn't apply himself, has gotten into being late bc he doesn't care, he has been suspended 3 times from school due to this. His grades are poor.
-WH's BF, who sold him the Biz, took advantage of him financially, this caused/causes problems between WH and I as it is his only F here, rumors are that BF is into drugs which lead to his financial demise. WH refuses to accept that BF took advantage of him or that BF could have a drup problem, even when brought to his attention thru several non-family members. WH lies about when he speaks to BF due to the tension between us.
-We co-exist at this pt., I have lost much, if not most, of my love for him at this time. I am tired, I can't seem to hold everything together. My work is suffering, all I do is work at the business, my job, our house (very little, it needs a good cleaning).
-Due to Kiwi's sitch, I ask WH what he would due if OW contacted him on his cell, WH said he would answer out of curiousity and then tell her not to call him anymore. I said why would you be curious, hopeful about a R with her, he says no, just curious. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Also during this time, almost lost my B, he had a liver transplant, almost died again due to complications.
-We lost BIL on WH's side last week, heart attack at the age of 51. Lost SIL on WH's side in July of last year,age 52. Lots of stress.

I don't know if I should give up and go back to NJ, where there are a lot of career opportunities with more money then in the mid-west, or find a job here, with a paycut, and try to work it out with WH. I feel like I support our family, the business, our extended family, and I have run out of steam. The state of our finances is serious, I couldn't buy another home anywhere due to our bad credit.

I know the story line in my WH's mind is that he is trying, what more do I want? Well, a lot more than this. I feel like I need to step up and make some drastic moves, I guess I'm scared too. BTW, I've been on AD's for 18 mo. now, went to IC for 2 years due to the A. Read self help books, come to MB....

Can anyone please help/advise me, I am desperate for outside input!!

Thank you.

I read your other post. Just curious - what does your husband say about the business?

I am sorry to say, but at this point in your life and your children's life, the costs versus the benefits of continuing to enable this marriage cannot possibly be healthy for anyone.

You have 3 children in emotional death.....as they lose respect for your husband they WILL lose respect for you in allowing this to continue to happen. Your 14 year old son is screaming for change. Not "fitting in" and being suspended three times at that age can have devstating lasting effects on his psyche. The reputation as a "loser" can be so hard to deal with in High School. I cannot possibly see how someone can live like you have. What are you and your children getting out of this besides being able to still say you are married? Your WH is not doing anything. He is ruining your financial life and financial future of your children. They are getting a blueprint for how to screw up their life.

Please, PLease don't let this happen. What has happened to you and these children is what happens when someone wants to stay married "at all costs". I can only imagine how low you feel about all of this, so I won't kick sand in your face...but, please step back and tell me what you would say if this was your sister, or your child asking for advice and they were in your situation.

Reality.....NOT fantasy.

This is NOT about an "addiction" or a "fog" or some BS like that. This is about your WH who has had multiple affairs, who has lost all respect of your children, who is crippling your financial future....and most importantly.....YOUR WILLFUL CONTINUED ENABLING OF HIM TO DO THAT.

I will pray for you. I want so much to help you see that the person you see in the mirror is a person worth loving, worthy of honesty and self respect and has so much more to gain from life than this dysfunctional cess pool you are mired in.

Best of luck

Lem

Your husband sounds quite a bit like mine....
At this point I am considering leaving the marriage.
It's beyond hard to take that step..but sometimes it has to be taken.

Believer, my husband is optimistic about the business. We moved to a new location in July of last year. All of the stores are connected to each other and are related businesses. It is a great concept, and we have grown, we have cashflow problems now and due to the errors, very little income. Future in the next few mo. is that we should make about $30K, if there aren't any significant mistakes. We don't own the building, WH's sister and BIL does. They have loaned us $ this yr. for the biz and considered partnering w/us, they backed out due to all of the errors and my WH's ADD issues that he wouldn't address. They are type A and my WH is very laid back, didn't mesh well. My BIL mentored my eldest son until they pulled the rug out. They barely speak to us, my eldest was very disappointed.

My view on starting a Biz is that you do a biz plan, value the biz and use outside consultants to varify this. Have cash to purchase or financing (sm. biz loan) lined up, work out how long you think it would take until it is profitable, how much $ you need to live on in the meanwhile.

My WH didn't do any of that, just paid what his BF asked, there wasn't any due diligenge done. I was a complete wimp and allowed it and didn't protect myself or my kids.

A business plan is essential, and also enough savings for support until the business is successful.

Could you declare bankruptcy without losing everything?

Nab, I read the dates in your sig area and I see you detected an adultery for the first time 1 year after your marriage. His first known EA was a few years later. Clearly, you've seen signs of other EA and PAs or you wouldn't have written it that way. He indulged himself with yet another adulterous long-term relationship two years ago. Lady, to me, that means he's a serial cheater...someone to whom cheating is a way of life rather than a single, horrendous mistake. You say yourself you’ve lost respect for him, and a marriage cannot survive without respect.

To me, MB principles rely on the existence of innate sense of integrity in wayward spouses that can be reawakened with the proper techniques. I don’t think serial cheaters have that integrity in their character. For whatever reason there may be, it wasn’t “hard-wired” into their systems. Couple that with other behavioral problems your husband has and the sum total is well nigh impossible to overcome. I regret to say I sincerely doubt MB principles can help resolve your problem.

You accepted blame for his adultery when you most certainly did NOT cause it, you’ve worked your way through codependency, and you have supported the marriage financially and in every other practical way to the point where your sons are close to losing their respect for you. I don’t see any way you can stay in a marriage where you’re the only one pulling the load.

That having been said, if you’re willing, perhaps you can make one last effort…maybe? You’ve invested SO much time and effort in this, maybe you can tough it out a few more months?

If you try one last time though, your husband cannot be allowed to decline counseling or treatment for his ADD. He has to go back on all prescribed meds too. These, and other things critical to the marriage, have to be boundaries you set. They are deal breakers, if you will, if he won’t commit to them wholeheartedly. If I were you, I’d sit him down and explain carefully that you can’t keep on the way things have been going. He has to do most of the heavy lifting in those areas simply because you can’t do them for him.

If he won’t, Nab, I see clear signs you’ve reached the point of diminishing returns and you will have to take measures to protect yourself and your sanity. You’ll have to cut your losses and start fresh back in NJ or wherever. Frankly, with all you’ve suffered through to date, that should be a snap for you. Hang in there, lady.

LM, thanks for replying. I have thought a lot about what you wrote. I would advise anyone else in this sitch to leave, I'm almost certain. I know that this isn't popular, but I personally do not know of any children of divorced parents that are emotionally well. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't be that way if the parents stayed together, however, the D was very hard on the kids, even if they were over the age of 21. I tried even harder for this reason. My take on what you wrote is there are two people in this unhealthy dance and I need to face up to it and not continue it. I understand this and agree.

TiredinCA, thanks for the support.

Believer, I am not familiar with bancruptcy laws so I don't know. We went to a CPA last week on my insistence for advice on the business. I hope to gain a better understanding of the viability of the company from him.

Longhorn, you are correct, he is a serial cheater. This is the main reason I don't trust him. I am also in a place where I can accept that the OW is not a soulmate or special, if not her than it would have been someone else. One of the biggest things I can see that allows someone to become a WS is opportunity. While this helps me, I cannot be certain that WH feels this way. I would have loved to have him respond to my query about what would he do if the OW calls by saying I would let it go to voicemail and then delete it w/o listening to it, or have you listen and then delete it. I wanted him to say that he would protect me and our family from the OW and himself by taking precautions. His response of I would be curious and answer leads me to believe that he continues to be selfish and acts out in support of what he wants. He did say that he would hope that he wouldn't answer but he might, which is honest, I'll grant you. I do think that it affected me deeply.

The suggestion you made regarding one last ditch effort is worth at least thinking about. He would have to buy into it and carry the weight of it though. I think there needs to be a timeline attached, otherwise based on my own CA issues, it could on for quite sometime.

Well I spoke to my WH the evening and next morning about how I could no longer carry the load of recovery. My choice is to have WH carry the heaviest part, or it is done. WH says he understands and want to recover and agrees to do this. WH is very good at words and then using all sorts of excuses why he couldn't do things. So, while I have hopes that this time will be different, they are not high hopes, they are more realistic. I plan to use the time to continue to organize our finances to get a handle on them. We spoke to a bank loan officer last week about a SBA loan or a line of credit. He advised us to pull our credit to see if anything comes up and if does, to fix it and then apply. Sad to say mine is much worse than WH as I have the house loan in my name and car loan and my middle son's college, along with the credit cards. :-( I began to see for the first time, I think, that the mess I'm in is no ones fault but my own. I was blaming my WH, but as far as I know, there wasn't any gun to my head and I had free will. It was my choice to ignore the continued A and move here anyway, my choice to let him stay in the house after the 2nd D-day and my choice to continue supporting the business, to my own peril. These things I did to me and our kids. I could write about WH did/does, but obviously not in my control, only myself. It is a bitter pill, but I think it is important for me to take responsibility for my actions, whether or not they were based on what WH said or what I wanted to believe, the facts are undeniable.

After we went to work on Tuesday, WH rec'd a call from the drs office regarding lung nodules. I have another thread on it and we are still awaiting word about a CT scan he took on Wed.. So, this whole recovery thing is on hold, bc of his health issues. I was an emotional mess last week, a lot better at the end of the week. The odds are in our favor that there isn't any major health concerns, but it sure is giving us a fright!

I also wonder what is going on in WH's head, is he where he wants to be, am I?

Now this is what I call PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Many a BS could learn a thing or two from this statement above.

NO MORE "WOE IS ME"
NO MORE..."MY WH did that"

Bravo to you !!!

NOw fix it

Lem

Lem,

Thanks for the post. You are right, step 1 recognize the problem, step 2 organize a plan, step 3 execute the plan. So, definitely I am in the step 2 phase.

BTW, my WH rec'd word from the Dr.'s office (not the Dr. directly) on his lung nodules. The Dr. (family practice) read the CT scan and said that the nodules are not large enough to be concerned about. I had a million questions, but that is all he knows right now. I am trying not to take charge of his health...old habits you know? So, it is a good day!!

Keep trying what?

Keep trying the same thing with the same results?

Keep trying to single handedly change the course of your M?

Keep trying to save a business that is not your or your son's responsibility?"

Keep trying to get your H back at all costs?

Keep trying to deal with someone that has ADD but won't take his meds?

Sure keep trying. Sounds like it is working really well for you thus far.

How about this. Tell him to start trying. Tell him to get on his meds. Tell him to stop messing up the business. Tell him you respect yourself to much to make this M work at all costs. Set these boundaries for him. You cannot make him do anything but you can decide you don't want to be with him if he choses not to do these things.

You are not a door mat. You are not his keeper! You are his W. I don't mean to be harsh but sometimes it is a shocker for someone to hear their own questions posed back to them.

I hope your M works but if it doesn't at least you can hold your head up high.

Hurting,

Well, that is harsh, but hey, maybe what's called for. I don't know if you read my post from yesterday which says that I spoke to my WH the evening of 05/22 and morning of 05/23. I said to him that he has to carry the majority of the load, as I have up til know and cannot/won't do it anymore. He agreed to, but he is a CA big time and also tends to tell people what they want to hear so they stop talking to him about an issue. So, as you can tell, I am very guarded and I would not say I am optimistic. Who knows, there are miracles, but I am trying to be realistic, not negative..

I guess I wanted the M to much, I don't know. Or I didn't value myself, and fear of the unknown, last but not least our children. Now, I know this isn't in their best interest or mine.

Yes I read that too and it sounds really familiar. I can't remember where I have heard that before though. Oh wait thats what I said to my FWW and she said back to me. LOL

I only believe what I see. I told my FWW that in order to get back on track I do not need words. I do not need a short term commitment. I need a long term commitment. Do not tell me you will do something then do it for a short period of time then drop it again.

My FWW sounds a lot like yours when it comes to words and not action.

Not to sound pesimistic.

I don't know if there is a direct relationship between my happiness and my wifes behavior but it seems the happier I am the more she wants to be with me.

What she doesn't realize is that I am happy not because of the relationship but in spite of the relationship. Not to say that will always be the case, I hope it is not.

The weight of the world that I allowed to be placed on my shoulders through my choices has been lifted. You say you accept your responsibility you could have said no. Yes and where would you be? Sometimes unfortunately one person has to carry a heavier load.

I could have made better choices too. My wife had her A when she went on an extended vacation back east to see friends and family and to attend a friends wedding. I was having the worst feeling she was going to have an A when she was there. I envisioned her going to the wedding, flirting with another man(becuase she did that in front of me) drinking too much and sleeping with another man. It happened almost exactly like that but she didn't even wait for the wedding. Boy I wish I would have made a better choice about letting her go. LOL. Not my responsibility.

I accept my faults, boy do I have a lot. In a movie one time I heard the line that went something like this. You love someone because of their faults not in spite of them.

nab,

I agree with hurting. I began to write last nite but H came home and I needed to spend time with him.

My sitch is very similar to yours. Not multiple A's, but many unkept promises. He basically thought he could make his own rules. What I have learned throughout all this is that I have to hold him accountable for his actions. If I don't, I become a doormat.

As IC told me, "you will know when you've had enough, and you will put your foot down and keep it there". She was right on the money that time.

God bless and many hugs. I know how painful this can be, and how helpless it can feel. When you are ready, your WH had better WATCH OUT!

hit