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It said the Council of Nicea barely voted divinity status for Jesus. I guess the implication could be that he was or wasn't, but to me it was just the results of a vote that may have been politically motivated. Again, understanding that this is a work of fiction, I see nothing blasphemous in saying that humans can have less than pure motivations. The burning question in my mind is whether Lem had a specific date in mind for the movie. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Me - BS
DDay 1 (Multiple affairs while overseas) - Feb 2003
DDay 2 (AdultFriendFinder Profile) - April 2007
Seeing a counselor. I think we have him stumped.
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Well, my understanding of the book is that it goes on firmly on the side of the Arian Heresy, which is the nondivinity of Christ. So far, so good.
But if so, why is the bloodline of Christ such a big deal? Why is Mary Magdalene elevated to Holy Grail status?
"Virtue -- even attempted virtue -- brings light; indulgence brings fog." -- C.S. Lewis
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First, they suggest that the way to God can be found by anyone who seeks. According to the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus suggests that when we come to know ourselves at the deepest level, we come to know God: "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you.'' This message – to seek for oneself – was not one that bishops like Irenaeus appreciated: Instead, he insisted, one must come to God through the church, "outside of which,'' he said, "there is no salvation.''
Second, in texts that the bishops called "heresy,'' Jesus appears as human, yet one through whom the light of God now shines. So, according to the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus said, "I am the light that is before all things; I am all things; all things come forth from me; all things return to me. Split a piece of wood, and I am there; lift up a rock, and you will find me there.'' To Irenaeus, the thought of the divine energy manifested through all creation, even rocks and logs, sounded dangerously like pantheism. People might end up thinking that they could be like Jesus themselves and, in fact, the Gospel of Philip says,
"Do not seek to become a Christian, but a Christ.'' As Irenaeus read this, it was not mystical language, but "an abyss of madness, and blasphemy against Christ.'' Wow, this is interesting isn't it CN?
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Well, my understanding of the book is that it goes on firmly on the side of the Arian Heresy, which is the nondivinity of Christ. So far, so good.
But if so, why is the bloodline of Christ such a big deal? Why is Mary Magdalene elevated to Holy Grail status? I'll postulate that because, divinity or not, Christ was a big deal. Thus, Mary M was a big deal - especially if she was his mate and bore his child. WAT
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Wasn't there something about JC being of royal bloodline, and the fear that the people would try to put this popular eccentric, non-conformist thinker on the throne? I may be off-base (for that matter, I usually am!) )
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I have no problem with those who are enthralled by this book as a work of fiction that robbed certain historical events in order to make the fiction more realistic. However, as a Christian and a Catholic who has seen faith diminish significantly over my lifetime, especially in Europe, I wish those that were able to take the huge leap of faith and logic to this fiction could have taken the same leap in trying to find a true faith in God.
NT NT: If you are listening, I want to say that I, for one, think that this is a GOOD POINT that was very well said. Faith is not only diminishing in Europe..but also in my small, Southern USA town !! Thanks!
Last edited by mimi1254; 05/24/06 06:37 PM.
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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I'll postulate that because, divinity or not, Christ was a big deal. Thus, Mary M was a big deal - especially if she was his mate and bore his child. Ah yes, but if you've read your Malory, the Holy Grail was a very very big deal.
"Virtue -- even attempted virtue -- brings light; indulgence brings fog." -- C.S. Lewis
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And the Merovingians were a distinctly little deal.
So Christ moves from being the Son of God and salvation of the world to spawning a bunch of bumbling Merovingian despots?
I like the original better.
"Virtue -- even attempted virtue -- brings light; indulgence brings fog." -- C.S. Lewis
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A.M., I think you might do better to read the book than to ask questions here. You might or might not like it, but you'll at least get an accurate picture that way. As for me, I think I like the original -- as presented by ALL of the gospels we have -- quite well as well. Peter against Mary Magdalene? He and his followers win for 2,000 years, and only now we begin to realize what happened? Fascinating. Now there's a novel that would really bring in the crowds and bring the talking heads to light. Ooo, ooo, I know!! I could write it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Oh dear. Someone please send me back to writing my little policy treatise on how to make the US Federal Government more efficient. Eeek.
Sunny Day, Sweeping The Clouds Away...
Just J --
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Wishful thinking is the downfall of good scholarship.
Right now I'm reading Czeslaw Milosz's "Native Realm." He says we live in a "culture of suspicion," where we are taught to believe that nothing is as it seems, that there are things hidden from us that must be found out. This is the legacy of Freud and Nietzsche and Marx. I recommend anything by him.
They don't give out Nobel prizes for nuthin'.
"Virtue -- even attempted virtue -- brings light; indulgence brings fog." -- C.S. Lewis
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So Christ moves from being the Son of God and salvation of the world..... If you buy that version. You understand that not all do, right? For those that don't, another fictional story can be just as plausible, if not much more so. WAT
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NT
No offense taken !
GB is now a wholly secularly-governed country, along with Germany, France, the Nordics, the netherlands, Switzerland and Austria.
Religious faith is barely tolerated, sometimes openly mocked, yet even the most weird conspiracy theories are eagerly swallowed down.
DVC is a conspiracy theory AND anti-religious, so its great fodder for the arrogant humanists of the emerging new Europe.
I expect a secular search for the ark of the covenant next. Really.
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Yo bOb - what's more arrogant - belief that you're no better and have no more right to be here than a cockroach, or belief that you're the chosen ones of the universe? I have no intention of debating this, just wanted to provide another perspective. When's your vacation? WAT
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WAT, my two words were deliberately linked to qualify a section of european humanists, not to infer all humanists are arrogant. I despise arrogance in faith be it religious or agnostic. There is a particularly evangelical branch of humanists, almost neo-pagans in fact who sit in high office in Europe, centered in France. A real cabal. Its those, and only those that my comment was directed at. I spent the first 27 years of my life as a rationalist WAT, I have no axe to grind, honestly ! Re holiday we go at Christmas to petit Bacaye on Grenada on 17th December. Ordered a room with a fridge for bait and beer. Don't need anything else ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm booking us an Island hopping holiday in Greece for August sometime this week <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> hyuk !
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And what else is a frig for? Good bait in Grenada - chicken skin. Guaranteed. WAT
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Wishful thinking is the downfall of good scholarship. And imagination is the heart of a good story.
Sunny Day, Sweeping The Clouds Away...
Just J --
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Wishful thinking is the downfall of good scholarship. And imagination is the heart of a good story. And beer leads to heroin. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> WAT
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Not GOOD beer, WAT! When a man finds "his" beer, there's no need 2 move on 2 more harmful things! Stone beers for ol' 2long! -ol' 2long <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Re holiday we go at Christmas to petit Bacaye on Grenada on 17th December. Ordered a room with a fridge for bait and beer. Don't need anything else ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My SIL's family is Welsh. His dad sent over some Bishop's Finger, among other nice ales. But that one is tasty! Wish I could find it here in SoCal. -ol' 2long
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Hmmmmmmm. Sounds a bit scary. Where's that finger been? In Provo last summer I tried some Polygamy Porter. "Take some home for the wives." - and, "When you're having more than one." Funny. Beer was just OK. WAT
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