Don't know if there's still much point, as I'm feeling
very hopeless in my situation (please see today's update
on my "OW not giving up quietly" thread) but below is
the draft of the Plan B letter I am planning to give WH
this week.
I have previously counseled with Jennifer and asked for her
input for a letter. She didn't give much feedback, but did
suggest I make sure I said something indicating I too had
contributed to the factors leading to WH's A and had/could
make changes, rather than making it all just him.
I would appreciate feedback, suggestions, or thoughts before
I write the final draft
Slammed

"Dear WH,
We have had a long and happy journey together in the years
before and since our marriage, and for as long as we've
been together, I have tried my best to create a happy and
fulfulling relationship and to be a loving, supportive and
fun partner.
We have been through lots of ups and downs together as far
as job changes, finances, loss of some special friends and
family and other situations, but through it all I felt we
were close and our bonds grew stronger.
I don't understand why things have gone the way they have
in recent months, but am very sorry for things I have done
in the past that hurt your feelings, didn't show how much
respect and admiration I hold for you, or make you feel
like I understood or cared about your depression.
I want us to be able to rebuild our marrige and believe
both the change we could make individually as well as
changes we could make together could help us build a
new lifestyle which would make us both happy, however we
cannot do that until you end your relationship with OW
permanently and completely. Until then, I will avoid
seeing or talking to you, and will keep contact limited
to necessary issues about our finances or an emergency.

I still love you WH, but your affair has caused me
indescribable pain and suffering and to protect the love
I still have for you it's necessary for me to do this.
Love ,
BS"

One thought as I've written this, is that since my WH has
been such a cake-eater all along and seems totally sure
that I'll be there, waiting for him, despite his horrid
behavior and the A, is it just adding to that to say I
still love him and want to rebuild our marriage ?
Would it be better to say something like "I have hoped to
rebuild our marriage but cannot do it as long as you are
involved with OW. Should you completely and permanently
end this affair, I would be willing to talk to you, but
understand that I am going to do all I can to stop loving
and caring about you so that I can move on, so I can make
no promises" (taken from the example in "Tough Love") ??
Or, does that sound too manipulative, like it's a threat ?
WH is not using to me being very "tough", so I don't
want to sound like I am playing a game here.

Please give thoughts, suggestions, and "critique".
Slammed

It sounds fine to me. The biggest thing you have to worry about is keeping to a dark Plan B. Please work out whatever you can in advance so you will be able to keep contact to a minimum.

Slammed:

I have read your thread and have followed your story. I will leave you with this saying that someone anonymously once stuck inside my lab coat. It was wtitten in block letters on a piece of heavy bond paper. This was given to me during a particularly hard time in my life.

"Most people will be about as happy in life AS THEY DECIDE"..

Think about that as you navigate this crud.

Lem

Well, no. A PBL should make it clear that, when he ends the affair, you are willing to TALK, not leap back into bed with him. You should make it clear you love him, and want to save your marriage. But it should also make it clear that this is the situation NOW, and you are trying to preserve your love NOW. If he comes back in five years, he shouldn't expect a candle at the window. Again, you don't have to say all this -- it's implied in your terseness.

This doesn't require a speech, just make it clear that you are willing to reopen CONVERSATION when the affair ends. That makes it clear enough.

Also, you don't establish an intermediary. Establishing an intermediary makes it clear that you mean business. That this isn't just blowing smoke or a bid for attention.

I don't know why Jennifer said what she does -- this is a situation of multiple addictions, as I recall, and substance abuse. In those cases, all MB bets are off, and you did not contribute to the climate that created the affair.

If I'm reading the situation correctly, I would cut the self-flagellation and have something more vague. "I apologize for any actions of mine that might have contributed to the environment that led to your affair." Or something like that.

Do you all think my letter gives a clear enough indication
that I still love him and would be willing to work on the M
if/when the A ends completely, or is this not stated in a
strong enough way ?

I didn't want to go overboard on taking blame for the climate that contributed to the affair, but do realize
that I was guilty of a lot of love busters and have
realized that now and can change it, so thought I ought
to acknowledge that there were things I did too (although
the biggies and the A remain entirely his responsibility).
WH did mention in one of his early IC sessions that he
felt a big factor in his being willing to work on things
was my willingness to do so also, and to recognize that
there were things I could do better/differently too.

WH does have alcohol issues due to having poor impulse
control when in the manic state of bipolar disorder, but
is not an alcoholic- so maybe Jennifer didn't feel that
fell as much into the addictions mode, I don't know-
He definitely does have a lot of issues though- such as dysfunctional family patterns, OCD, etc.

I don't have anyone to be an intermediary, but since there
are no kids the only necessary contact with WH would be
a monthly update on the finances, and I've been doing that
by email all along anyway, so thought it should be okay
to continue that- it's short, and business like.
Do I need to say more about that being the only method of
contact ?

Last questions- if WH is going to push about getting the
house for sale, I am going to have to deal with him about
getting a realtor, what things need done around the house
to make it more sellable, what the asking price would be,
etc. How would I deal with that ?
Slammed

Personally, I wouldn't put the house up for sale unless you end up getting divorced.

It is okay to email him about financial issues.

How often do you talk to him now?

Slammed,

I like you PBL, it tell him what your boundries are and that you are willing to talk to him once his A is over.

As far as selling the house and I all I have no advice for that seeing how our home is in his mom's name until we paid it off but thats not gonna happen. His sister is buying it now.

My STBXWH is still on his leash as well. He won't or can't come around our home if I am here unless the bimbo is with him. Not that I want to see him or speak to him but its protection from me if I am not home.... You know I may just attack him in the yard and make him do something he does not want to do... gezzzzzz what an a$$.

Anyhow as you know I have made the descion to move away from this chaos and make a life for myself once the divorce is over. But this does not mean I give up all hope because i b elieve the A will end one day. But what it does do is give me peace and a chance to become my own person , a better person..... And who knows once i become that person he may be nothing more than a happy memory of my past.

So Slammed as hard as this is going to for you and believe meits hard you will have peace and a chance to grow.

Get your ducks in a row and let him stew without you standing there waiting.

My prayers are going out to you......


Hurting

I understand better with your most recent post.

What I still think you need to do, however, is make it clear that you will resume talking when the A is over. That makes it clear that you are upping the ante. That's what makes it clear you aren't holding a candle and waiting some more.

Last week, he could talk to you. Now he can't. It's a clear signal things are getting worse and he is losing you.

That's what makes it different than WH just playing out his affair and then coming back. "Coming back" just reopens negotiations -- it does not promise those negotiations will be successful, or what his bargaining chips will be at that time. The PBL makes it clear he will be in a weaker negotiating position, because you will already have become accustomed to life without him.



I still say, find someone. Again, it's what makes it clear that this whole situation is now under the observation of a third-party. It keeps his behavior civil. And it's what guarantees that "once a month" contact won't become more -- that he can't wriggle into more contact.

My intermediary left town between the PBL and D. So I had the situation where I was getting harrassing emails from him for awhile -- which I forwarded to my attorney for reply. I was encouraged by my attorney to reply to some, and I did, with a cc to attorney and beginning with the sentence, "My attorney has instructed me to..."

Still, at the end of this, I had to send an email to tell him I was blocking his email address, and no longer wished to hear from him. Once I pressed the "send" button, I realized I should have done that at the same time as the PBL.

You really don't want to leave any kind of door open for contact. If he's ready to talk turkey -- he can tell the intermediary, contact a relative, sky write, or send a singing telegram. Until then -- nada.

That's what gives the PBL punch. IMVHO.

Thanks for the support and suggestions from everyone.
I may change just a couple things in the note and will
post another draft as soon as I have a chance.

Believer- I don't want to have to put the house up for
sale, but if WH won't continue to pay on it and I can't
afford it myself, I guess there won't be any choice.
Of course, the reason WH wants to get rid of it is so
he doesn't have to continue to pay on the mortgage,
2nd, utilities, phone, etc.. and can use his money to
pay the expenses at the other house. (perhaps also he
is wanting to do this so it's easier to get the new
loan on that other house). I'm going to have to talk to
the lawyer again to get more info about this situation.

We don't have much that requires us to have any contact-
so hopefully just a business-like email will be okay when
needed for discussing the finances since I don't have any-
one to be an intermediary.

We aren't talking any now for about the last three weeks
except for one short call from WH telling me he was back
from going out of town to see his ailing Dad, and the VM
I got Friday about selling the house and such...
Went from him calling almost every day, asking me to go out
to eat about once a week and wanting me to go with him to
his IC and Dr appointments to nothing from his end.
Our last conversation wasn't anything big nor negative, so
didn't think the change had anything to do with me, or us.
I assume either OW has a very watchful eye and short leash
on him, he's trying to prove himself with "good behavior",
or he's just really lost interest in me and us.

Hurting- Thanks so much for the prayers and support.
Your plan to move away from having to see OW and WH and to
be near family and friends is very smart and I'm sure will
be very peaceful and less stressful for you, but I still
have a feeling that there is hope for your situation- so
hang in there with hope as you look to the future.

LM- Thanks for the encouragement. Sounds like someone really
thought a lot of us to have give you the note when you were
needing it most and now you've passed that on to me.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Slammed

Thanks, A.M.
Didnt see your note to respond in my last post.

Can you please give a suggestion of how to change my PBL
to make it more clear about resuming talking when the A
is over. I would like that to be very clear to WH, just
not sure how to do it-

I've tried to think of someone to be an intermediary, but
really can't think of anyone. We have no mutual friends
here, and my two best friends who both are great supporters
of me are so busy and involved in their own issues right
now that I can barely get in touch with them, so don't think
they would be appropriate to handle the task. I could
reword the part in the letter about contact to say something
like "we have no reason to need to discuss anything other
than the brief financial issues each month, so I will limit
all contact with you to that short message via email". ??

Slammed

Not sure this works, but try this. I think one of your "busy" friends could be an intermediary for once-a-month emails. All she'd have to do is forward it to you. It's far less likely to be abusive with another set of eyes seeing it, that all.

I've made changes in caps, and done a little tightening. WSs have short attention spans.

Dear WH,

We have had a long and happy journey together in the years
before and since our marriage. I have tried my best to create a happy and fulfulling MARRIAGE and to be a loving, supportive, and fun partner.

We have been through lots of ups and downs together as far
as job changes, finances, loss of some special friends and
family, but through it all I felt we were close and our bonds grew stronger.

I don't understand why things have gone the way they have
in recent months, but am very sorry for things I have done
in the past that hurt your feelings, didn't show how much
respect and admiration I hold for you, or MADE you feel
like I understood or cared about your depression. I WOULD LIKE A CHANCE TO REBUILD OUR MARRIAGE. THAT CANNOT HAPPEN, HOWEVER, BEFORE YOU END your relationship with OW permanently and completely.

Until then, I will NOT SEE OR TALK to you. YOU CAN SEND NECESSARY FINANCIAL INFORMATION ONCE A MONTH TO X.

I still love you WH, but your affair has caused me
indescribable pain and suffering. I WISH TO PROTECT MY LOVE FROM FURTHER HARM.

Love ,
BS"

It's not that it's that different, Slammed, I just made it a little stronger and changed the emphasis. You will not "avoid" contact -- it simply won't happen.

We have had a long and happy journey together in the years
before and since our marriage, and for as long as we've
been together, I have tried my best to create a happy and
fulfulling relationship` and to be a loving, supportive and
fun partner. [color:"green"]Change that sentence to I have always only.... wanted a happy and fulfulling[/color]


We have been through lots of ups and downs together as far
as job changes, finances, loss of some special friends and
family and other situations, but through it all I felt we
were close and our bonds grew stronger. [color:"green"] change that to looked forwards to these bonds even growing stronger. [/color]

I don't understand why things have gone the way they have
in recent months, but am very sorry for things I have done
in the past that hurt your feelings, didn't show how much
respect and admiration I hold for you, or make you feel
like I understood or cared about your depression. [color:"green"]change depression to feelings give no clinical diagnosis... [/color]

I want us to be able to rebuild our marrige and believe
both the change we could make individually as well as
changes we could make together could [color:"green"]cjhange could to can [/color] help us build a
new lifestyle which would make us both happy, [color:"green"] would to can [/color] however we
cannot do that until you end your relationship with OW
permanently and completely. [color:"green"]get rid of completely... [/color] [color:"green"]The line should be something about your continued contact with is to damaging to my feelings for you. [/color] Until then, I will avoid
seeing or talking to you, and will keep contact limited
to necessary issues about our finances or an emergency. [color:"green"] do NOT put I will avoid talking to you..put while you remian in contact with her I find that I am no longer able to have contact with you. [/color]

I still love you WH, but your affair has caused me
indescribable pain and suffering and to protect the love [color:"green"]get rid of the causing pain part... [/color]
I still have for you it's necessary for me to do this.
Love ,
BS"

[color:"green"]I love you WS. I hold great hope inside that you and I can build a relationship worthy of both of us. I hold great value in our ability to overcome this.[/color]

One thought as I've written this, is that since my WH has
been such a cake-eater all along and seems totally sure
that I'll be there, waiting for him, despite his horrid
behavior and the A, is it just adding to that to say I
still love him and want to rebuild our marriage ?
Would it be better to say something like "I have hoped to
rebuild our marriage but cannot do it as long as you are
involved with OW. Should you completely and permanently
end this affair, I would be willing to talk to you, but
understand that I am going to do all I can to stop loving
and caring about you so that I can move on, so I can make
no promises" (taken from the example in "Tough Love") ??
Or, does that sound too manipulative, like it's a threat ?
WH is not using to me being very "tough", so I don't
want to sound like I am playing a game here.

Please give thoughts, suggestions, and "critique".
Slammed

ARK

Thanks A.M and Ark~
I think the PBL seems to be very good now on accomplishing
what I hoped it would. I tried to write it as though it
would be the last time I ever talked to WH and could say
"in a nutshell" everything I needed to say.

I know that he already knows much of the things I've said,
as I've made it very clear to him previously that I do still
love him, believe in him and us, believe we can both make
changes that would make a real difference in the M, and
that it could only take place when the A is totally over,
but now he'll have it clear, concise, and in writing, in
case he needs the "reminder".

I talked to one friend last night, but she has a lot going on and didn't really want to be an intermediary-
The other friend's Dad just passed away, so I don't want
to ask anything of her right now, so will have to stick to
sending WH the monthly bill list via email. Normally, it
has not required any discussion or response, so wouldn't
think it'd give him much "fix" or opportunity for contact.
(And I don't expect any abuse or anything negative).

At least "being dark" should be pretty easy now that WH has
apparently decided to "go dark" on me- he's not tried to
call, wanted any contact, stopped by the house to get his
mail, drop receipts, get some of his things, or even see
the dog for weeks now....
Slammed

Ah yes, Slammed, but this may change.

You see, he is thrashing around according to mood, and moods change. You have a plan. You have outlined in the PBL that this is policy. You wrote it down because you have made a decision -- a decision not based on moods. That's the differenc.

No relative can be intermediary? As long as he's quiet, it's not likely to be an onerous task. But if he doesn't to go crazy, you want a neutral party in the middle, as a witness.

After reading another PBL draft here today, I am wondering
if I have said enough about the good times we had, nice memories with WH, and possiblities for the future and also
whether I need to say something about being able to forgive
and move forward. What does everyone think ?

A.M.- You are very right about moods changing- especially
WH who is hands-down the moodiest person I've ever known !
It's very hard to predict how he might respond to the letter
but with the recent "cooling" in his behavior towards me,
I wonder if it might just be a welcome "relief" that he
doesn't have to make any effort. (?)

My sister would probably be willing to be an intermediary
(and is a psychologist, which could be interesting) but
she doesn't have a computer. My only other relatives are
my parents but I don't really want to get them involved
in the situation with WH and don't think they understand
enough about MB.

WH did come by the house today (while I was at work) so I
put an update on my regular post. Also had yet another
worry added to my life, and sad news about WH's daughter.
Slammed

No. Don't add anything to the length.

Your sister's secretary probably has a computer.

Thanks, A.M.- will leave it as is.

My sister isn't in private practice- she's a "social"
psychologist", so works on programs that integrate mentally
challenged adults into society, and helps with programs at
a battered womens shelter. Prior to having her two kids she
taught at a college, and will do that again once they are
in school.

Slammed