I wonder if I will ever get off my anti-d's and would like to hear anyone's experience with going off...when you knew you were ready, etc...also if anyone knows if some people just always need to stay on them (even without a diagnosed condition like bipolar or similar)

Background...

D-day 7/2003

Severe clinical depression by 9/03, went on 100mg zoloft

12/03 felt like I was crashing again, MD upped me to 150mg

5/04 Recovery going very well, thinking about going off meds and find out I am pregnant (our 4th)...due to very difficult pregs which affect me mentally too, MD advises to stay on anti-d through preg but drop back to 100mg

3/05 baby born

6/05 start obsessing about getting off the anti-d's...I am not depressed, we are happily recovered...I try and immediately don't feel like myself...MD and all friends and family tell me to get over myself and stay on the anti-d's...I just had a baby and am nursing this is no time to stop...I get over myself and decide to wait until baby is a year and I stop nursing to go off them

9/05 - 11/05 We put our house on the market to make a move closer to our church/daughters school. I keep house in perfect show condition and then single-handedly while caring for the 4 girls-one a nursing infant-I pack up the entire house and then unpack into our new house all by myself.

Somewhere in here I try to go off meds again and within 4 days I am completely irritable and mood swingy...I go back on them.

1/06--My mom is visiting, I am in a terrible place...I think I am crashing from the move, I have started weaning my last baby who is about to turn one, and my menstrual cycle is starting to return after about 20 months. My mom confronts me and advises to up meds back up to 150mg...I talk to MD and she agrees.

Present--I am now taking 125mg, wanting to go back to 100mg and just get off them. I am done nursing. I don't feel depressed. BUT it seems when I try to go off them I get terribly irritable, cranky and dark-headed.

Can anyone give me thoughts/perspectives/experiences with your anti-d's and whether you think I will EVER get off them?

Thanks so much for your time and response,
Blessings,
Glad

I have stopped taking AD's many times in my 20 yrs of dealing with depression. I think I have always decreased the dose gradually. When I started taking Zoloft this time, I gradually increased the dose until I found the level that worked. When I stop taking them, I will decrease slowly and just hang tight at any level on my way down, if I seem to be getting worse.

Talk to your doctor about it and take the MDs advice. But I don't think you have to stay on ADs forever once you start taking them. For me, I have dealt with major depressive episodes several times. On average, I seem to take the ADs for a year or so, then slowly come off them. And, on average, I seem to have about 5 years of 'remission' before another episode will occur.

When I start taking ADs, I feel really foggy for the first little bit. If that was your experience also, I would think you should expect to feel a little weirdness as you come off them.

None of this should be taken as medical advice, please talk to your doctor. This is just my personal experience with ADs.

Jean, thanks so much for your response and experience.

My problem with discussing this with my MD is this...what I have found is that they pretty much let me call the shots regarding the anti-d's (I have discussed with a PCP as well as 2 different OB dr.'s and that was my perspective with all of them).

If I want to go off, they say okay, if I want to stay on, they say okay, if I want to increase they say okay, if I want to decrease, they say okay.

So I feel like I am directionless in how to really know when I should go off them and how I should feel going off them.

Thanks for the perspective that I might feel wierdness as I come off them. That is helpful. The time I tried to go off I was so surprised by my major irritability so immediately that I thought that meant that I must need them still.

I welcome more feedback, please! I really appreciate your time.
Glad

I have no experience with Zoloft. I was on Wellbutrin, Prozac, and Adapin (long ago). Like Jean36 I have dealt with depression off and on for almost 20 years.

I quit the Adapin cold turkey and felt great for three months, then crashed for six months, then came back up.

I quit the Prozac cold turkey and took a dip for a few months, then came back.

I tapered off the Wellbutrin and did okay, but then the life situation took a major turn of events and I went down again for about 18 months. Coming back now. Due to the nature of my work AD's are no longer an option.

My W is tapering off her Lexapro. She's down to half a tablet daily; when she tried to go less she just couldn't hack it.

Guess what I'm trying to say is - it's different for everybody. Check with your doc. If he tells you you'll be on then for the rest of your life, get a different doctor. In the meantime, here are some things I've learned about dealing with depression:

1. Exercise. Yes, it's trite. Yes, you are already depressed and don't feel like exercising. Do it anyway.
2. Get outside. Fresh air and sunshine will do wonders. You can combine this with #1.
3. Get out of the house. Go do something. Take the kids to the park. Have your H watch the kids for an afternoon while you go shop by yourself or with a girlfriend.
4. Eat right. High-fat foods are emotionally comforting but will drag you down physically. I'm not saying eat bean sprouts and tofu for every meal; what I'm getting at is to eat more fresh fruits and vegetables, and stop eating fast food. You'll feel better physically, which will affect your emotional state. And you'll feel better emotionally cause you're taking care of yourself physically.
5. Avoid depressive triggers. For me, it's female infidelity and shows about babies with serious medical issues. Change the channel. Change the course of the conversation. Flip the page. Get up and walk away. And don't dwell on it.
6. Recognize the mental ruts of depression. This takes practice...but basically there are trains of thought that will take you straight to depressionville. Kind of like triggers, but they're more internal and happen via patterns of thought. Learn how to break them.
7. Recognize when you're tired. When you're tired you're less able to deal with internal and external triggers. It's okay to give up and go to bed. Sleep will do you good.

Hope this helps. Again, talk to your doc about the best way to approach it.

I just googled "tapering off zoloft" and there is alot of info, mostly from people sharing their own experiences.

I liked BB advice about the lifestyle changes. And I completely understand your frustration when dealing with MDs that seem apathetic to the fact that this is our brains that we are messing around with. I don't like being casually given meds that are going to mess around with my head. I always let my sister and close friend know when I am changing something with my meds. They can help keep an eye on me for adverse reactions.

Glad, after d-day in January 04 I went on Lexapro. I have my MA in Counseling and knew I was in a major deprresive episode because of the A circumstances. About 6 months later I switched to Wellbutrin because of the sexual side effects. I think it was about a year later I wanted to get off the Wellbutrin. I called my psychiatrist and this is what she said to me. She told me the thinking is that a person should be feeling good for at least a year before trying to get off an AD. Well that answered my question because it definitely hadn't been a year. About 4 months ago I ran out of the Wellbutrin and there were no refills. The pharmacy tried to contact the doctor and this all took about 5 days. I realized I felt fine without the AD. Another year had passed since my conversation with the psychiatrist and I was obviously ready to get off of them.

This is the thing. If you get off of an AD too soon the depression can get worse. So don't play around with this. Are you being monitored by a psychiatrist? My internist prescribed the Lexapro, but I ended up with the psychiatrist who is trained to fine tune the meds. Recovering from an A is hard enough. Add a new baby to the mix and it's got to be really rough. Don't wind this on your own.

I was diagnosed with severe depression about 2.5yrs ago, it took 3 different dr's to convince me I had depression. I was too independant and stubborn and resisted with great bravado. It took about 5mos to find something that worked for me and have since been on 250mg of effexor xr. I have spent inumerable hours in IC and recently felt like I could go it alone.

I began to wean myself from the meds but immediately felt irritable and shortly thereafter, miserable. My MD used this analogy. Yes I have learned and incorporated new tools to develope a new lifestyle and have been progressing positively: let's say you take courses and have tons of practice on how to drive a mac truck- you become very successful and talented driver. In the meantime the coke bottle glasses you have been wearing due to diminished sight capacity have now been broken and can't be repaired until next month.

Would you then take on the task of driving that mac truck without the glasses? How successful an endeavor do you think that would be?

Similarly, you may very well have adapted to your new lifestyle with new baby, house etc but without the meds (your glasses) you may not be able to handle the road as well. Perhaps in time you may not need the glasses anymore but I would caution you from making that assumption if your reaction was similar to mine.

I second the notion of seeing a psychiatrist I had one appt 2yrs ago and he was able to sum things up quite quickly. I intend to return to him before I try weaning myself again.

Good luck, hope this was helpful.

I have not used ADs (but thought about it). I have a very strong aversion to using ADs because of things from my own personal history - basically, I don't like the idea of anybody messing with my brain's chemicals - I'm cross-wired and short-circuited enough.

What I have tried, on the advice of my IC, is Saint John's Wort. That has worked for me, and it's naturopathic (sp?). It doesn't make me super-happy, but both my wife and I can tell a difference between me using SJW and not using SJW. As a bonus, it's had a positive effect on my sex drive.

So - you might want to talk to your doctor about moving from a perscription AD to something like Saint John's Wort.

As for the doctor's telling you do what you want, push them to give you direction. That's their job. If they don't want to take a more pro-active role in your health, even when you ask for input (which sounds like what's going on), I'd suggest finding a new doctor. Apathy in any professional (regardless of what their profession is) is not a good thing, IMO.

Y'all THANK YOU SO MUCH for your feedback. I appreciate everyone's responses!

BITBUCKET, YOU SAID:

"In the meantime, here are some things I've learned about dealing with depression:

1. Exercise. Yes, it's trite. Yes, you are already depressed and don't feel like exercising. Do it anyway.

GLAD: I do not feel depressed anymore, thankfully. I used to be much more active when I just had a couple children, but it has been hard to carve out excercise time w/ the 4 of them...something I am currently trying to reincorporate back into my life and I definitely think it will help in getting off AD's when the time is right.

2. Get outside. Fresh air and sunshine will do wonders. You can combine this with #1.

GLAD: My children love to be outside, we have a gorgeous yard and climate...I have no excuse not to get my butt outside and sit while my kids play...thanks for the reminder!

3. Get out of the house. Go do something. Take the kids to the park. Have your H watch the kids for an afternoon while you go shop by yourself or with a girlfriend.

GLAD: I am excellent here...my H gives me time out alone every weekend. We are in a community where friends, church, shopping, parks are less than 5 min away. A blessing, especially when I want to hole up in the house...I know a quick outing will in fact, be quick.

4. Eat right.

GLAD: Another area I am trying to get back to my old-self on...always was a healthy eater, always was borderline too thin even after the first 3 kids....my last baby, for some reason not all the weight came off and its frustrating to me...I am still thin by normal standards, but not what I am used to and not in the shape I was used to and that has bummed me out...I see how I am not eating at all like I used to and am planning to change that!

5. Avoid depressive triggers.

GLAD: You know what a depressive trigger has been for me? This website. I wish it wasn't because it is a great sight and I thought I could handle posting now and offering hope as a recovered "success story" but all the pain on here gets me down...not sure what I need to do about this yet.

6. Recognize the mental ruts of depression.

I have done a lot with this very idea. Basically I call it "self-talk" what am I saying to myself about myself and life. My self-esteem took a big hit with the A and the depression and I think it is an ongoing journey to recover that, but I am much more aware now of my self-talk and how it affects me.

7. Recognize when you're tired.

GLAD: I have been tired for 7 years! (4 kids in 7 years) I think it is just a way of life right now with the age/stage I am in with my kids. I do try to get to bed before 11pm.


Thanks for giving me some things to ponder/remind myself of, and implement with the goal of mental health and well being. It is stuff that should be obvious, but I can't be reminded of it enough! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My brain always gets stuck in the "planning" phase and never gets to the "implement" stage of my "brilliant" plans! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jean--
Thanks, I will google those words...I love to reasearch and google is always a great tool. Also, that is so smart of you to have a couple people watching you when you change meds that might notice signs that you don't. I will remember that and do the same when I start coming off zoloft.

CV55--
I have heard the year timeline. So since I got to an overwhelmed and irritable state in January, should that me my starting point again? I was kind of thinking 6 months of regular "female" cycle (don't want to offend any men here!) and then start to taper. In the last 8 years I have probably only had 10 mens. cycles because of all the pregnancies and nursing each for a year with no cycle.

apl--
I love analogies...I learn best with them so I liked your mac truck analogy. Also, good info about seeing a psychiatrist to discuss the AD's rather than regular MD, since they seem to let me be calling the shots and doing what I want with it. I will look into that, I know someone who can give me a referral.

brokenbird--
When St. Johns Wort began its heyday I think in 1996 I tried it to ease PMS irritability. I do think it helped a little, I used it probably less than a year though. I hadn't thought of trying it again.

I have had no problems whatsoever on zoloft...except lately I have been noticing insomnia which is why I want to get back down to the 100mg to see if it correlates with that. I am on a pretty high dosage of zoloft...I have a friend that just takes 25mgs for PMS symptoms and gets relief from that. So I guess with the dose I am on, I am not sure a natural remedy would be enough right now. I think incorporating bitbuckets ideas would probably help immensely though and allow me to go on a lower dosage.

Interesting that it increased your sex drive. That would be a bonus! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree that the apathy in the MD's I have seen is discouraging.

Thank you all for giving me so much to ponder. I truly appreciate your time and efforts in responding to me and what you have said to me has been very helpful.

Blessings,
Glad

Glad wrote:

"CV55--
I have heard the year timeline. So since I got to an overwhelmed and irritable state in January, should that me my starting point again? I was kind of thinking 6 months of regular "female" cycle (don't want to offend any men here!) and then start to taper. In the last 8 years I have probably only had 10 mens. cycles because of all the pregnancies and nursing each for a year with no cycle."

Find a good psychiatrist if you don't already have one. That's step # 1. I'm just telling you what I was told. One year after you begin to feel good again. I didn't go off of the Wellbutrin properly, but I also knew I wouldn't get adverse side effects by stopping cold turkey so I didn't freak out by the delay in getting the prescription refilled. Then I just realized I felt fine without it. You need to be monitored by a good psychiatrist.

"You need to be monitored by a good psychiatrist."

Makes me sound like a real whack-job!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am laughing, but it really points to the societal "stigma" and misunderstanding of depression/anxiety/AD's etc. Even as a sufferer I think "moi?? monitored by a psychiatrist? Thats only for crazy people...wait...could I be crazy?"

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I hope you are reading that with the humor it was intended.

But also on a serious note...social stigma is probably a part of why I want to get off them. Not that the depression I went through or my use of AD;s is some big secret of mine, on the contrary, I am SO THANKFUL that they exist and that they were so beneficial to me at the time. And I would tell anyone that.

I guess I just keep going back to, well, we are recovered and I am not depressed...so why does it seem like I still need them??? Just a frustrating circle I guess.

I definitely think I will pursue meeting once with a psych though specifically to get a better perspective on my needs for AD's that I feel has been lacking in my conversations with my regular MD's.

Thanks again CV55 and all!
Glad

"Makes me sound like a real whack-job!!"

We're all whack jobs, especially after going through these As. Listen, I had to switch over to a psychiatrist because of the sexual dysfunction. My internist who is excellant had switched me over to Wellbutrin, after weaning me off the Lexapro. I began getting these electrical currents in my body. I had heard about people having a cocktail of ADs to help with the SF dysfunction so I called her. We both agreed we were getting out of her territory. This is what a psychiatrist does!

Why do you want to get off of the ADs so bad? Are you having adverse symptoms? Has it been determined if your depression is biological or was it triggered by the A or something else from your past? I think ADs can be overprescribed. At the same time for some of my clients it made all the difference in therapy when they finally got on the AD. If it is biological it's like a diabetic taking their insulin. Trust me in that probably at least half the people you know might be on an AD.

Glad needs to get away from AD's because (self appointed Dr.) Tom Cruise says it's important:

Cruise maintains, "These drugs are dangerous. I have actually helped people come off. "When you talk about postpartum, you can take people today, women, and what you do is you use vitamins. There is a hormonal thing that is going on, scientifically, you can prove that. But when you talk about emotional, chemical imbalances in people, there is no science behind that. "You can use vitamins to help a woman through those things."

Seriously, though, Tom Cruise's incredible ignorance of the subject of mental health permeates through our society. It's not just a stigma, Glad, it's "insane" to take AD's "on the record." In other words, if word gets out that you have EVER taken AD's, you can KISS your chances at reasonable health and life insurance goodbye. (Assuming you live in the States.) I know this first hand. I've even tried to work with health care providers to help them understand from an actuarial standpoint, a person who has sought help for a mental illness has a LONGER life expectancy and a LOWER health risk than others in the general population who take vitamins, St. Johns. Wort, or nothing at all.

(Aside to brokenbird: If you take SJW, you ARE on AD's. They are just OTC (and undosed) AD's in the US. They are not advised for most women anymore, because of their impact on hormonal cycles, and the way they render oral contraception ineffective.)

Back to AD's and weaning off. Nothing wrong with TRYING to wean off AD's, but long term, if you know you are prone to depressive behaviors, you need to have constant monitoring from a doc or well trained loved one who sees you on at least a bi-monthly basis. It is very easy to "slip" back into serious depression, because your brain's neurotransmitters are now familiar with the pathway.

I'm in the process of weaning off AD's myself, and I'm concerned about silently slipping into another major bout without realizing it. Weaning off or cold turkey approach depends on your condition, your meds, and your doc. Sudden drop off of Wellbutrin causes a slight drop-off, but usually handles itself after a few weeks.

Dropping off Paxil, Lexapro, or Cymalta abruptly will result in those "electrical currents" someone alluded to. Not a very good feeling--somewhat like vertigo all the time. Prozac is also recommended to *titrate* i.e., slowly lower your dosage over several weeks. Zoloft has been handled both ways, so it depends on your diagnosis.

BTW, know that many AD's are now safe for use throughout pregnancy. I took prozac through my DD's pregancy and more than a year of nursing, and she is a wonderful little girl with a 161 IQ. Only thing we noticed was a temporary allergy to penicillin while I was nursing her (attributed to a Prozac interaction). No, DD does not have depression, nor does she have a third arm growing out of her forehead.

Just remember the old saying, "Individual results may vary."

One thing doctors always look at is the family background, is there a history of depression in the family. Sometimes depression is brought about by external factors, job changes, moving from one place to another, having children and the death of loved ones. Those are big changes in life that can affect people and cause depression. But sometimes depression can be genetic and passed on through families. I know in my family anxiety and depression is something I got the genes honestly from my mom's side of the family. So I have to regularly stay on some type of medicatation to keep things under control. I can go off medication, but eventually anxiety or depression catches back up and I"ll be on a downhill spiral, so why no just stay even keel all the time. It just a choice I make.

Thanks for your replys.

CV55--you asked an important question "why do you want to get off AD's so bad??" I have been asking myself that. I have had NO adverse reactions at all, I am so thankful for how they have benefitted me and by ripple effect benefitted my children and my marriage. So I have no good answer. I need to get over it for now and just be grateful that I live in a time where there is great, safe help for these things.

imanotherone...I related to your concerns about "silently slipping into another major bout without realizing it". I also nursed two babies and went through one pregnancy on zoloft and they do not have any strange horns coming out of their heads and are beautiful, vivacious children. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have read some people who go off their AD or don't go on one when needed because they "can't" because they are preg or nursing and I say NO not true! If it is needed, it is safer than the ripple effects of the depression/anxiety/moodswings whatever. I also didn't know about the life insurance stuff...that is very unfortunate that those that SEEK help are "punished" for acknowledging they have a problem! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Askme...there is definitely a history of depression/anxiety in my family. I appreciated your perspective so much. I liked this: "I can go off medication, but eventually anxiety or depression catches back up and I"ll be on a downhill spiral, so why no just stay even keel all the time. It just a choice I make."


Tom Cruise IMO lost a lot of fans when he decided to "educate" America with his "expertise" on ALL THINGS.

This has all been excellent for me to think about and I appreciate your time and responses!
Glad

Everything we put in our bodies can have an effect on us. Even too much water can cause a problem, it will wash out the salts and cause an electrolyte imbalance. I had a friend who ate carrots every day thinking they were healthy for here. Then her skin turned orange and her hair started falling out from the beta carotene.

So what you have to do is evaluate the risks as you know them and compare the risks to the advantage of what you are doing. If you are genetically inclined to depression, and the depression is reocurring why not find a dosage of AD's that is suitable for you. It's better to find something you can live with and be happy with than to go through life miserable.

There is a newer AD that I don't know if you have tried call CYMBALTA. It's just starting to get advertised a good bit. It works on seratonin and norepinephrine and may be a little less sedating that zoloft.

I agree that everything we put in our bodies has an effect, I just don't think Dr. Cruise needs to be the one to decide about psychopharmaceuticals.

I took Cymbalta last year and it worked pretty well for me. My IC is a reknowned psychopharmacologist, so I get the best ADs out there. I stopped taking the cymbalta when I found out there is some evidence that shows higher than usual liver damage from this AD. My liver is already working overtime to handle the wine I drink, so why push it? Most importantly, if you're on an oldie, but goodie, like generic paxil, prozac, or wellbutrin, and it's working for you, DON'T quit. The new stuff is only there for the guys who can't get good results with the other stuff. The new stuff is 10x as expensive (and you should NEVER use insurance to pay for AD's, especially if you think you might end up in D-court--leave no record behind).