You know what - I should celebrate. It's OVER. That job and workplace was the source of so much AGONY and pain. Affair aside, the commute and the stress were brutal for her. For us. Add the A in and what that company, the building, the name symbolized and...I'm glad it's gone. Like the end of an era.

Still sad...

BTW - to anyone out there who's listening and may think that the WS can work at the same place as OP -- WRONG. Access via email, IM, covering contact under "work" related topics, etc. is just way, way too easy. Takes a very strong WS to shut it down properly.

When the affair was born and nurtured in the workplace, the APs have all these well-worn methods of communication. They've got their dance. Workplace is like a petri dish for the affair - it cultivates the existance of the A.

I don't believe WW was initiating contact with OM over the past 4 weeks. But she wasn't refusing it either.

This is not to say that a WS cannot refuse contact at the workplace - preferably while they are looking for another job. Mine didn't.

Now that I know WW will no longer be going to that place or be on the same email network, etc. I see how much easier it's going to be for ME and HER to begin inching past this whole ugly mess.

Hey, MDC...

I was watching you work this out for yourself...sometimes I do that.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You're very good at working your own life. You know that. The monetary aspect is worth whatever adjustments you can make for the sake of NC.

That's my belief. I was a slave to security, in the form of money...wouldn't spend it where we couldn't afford it...worked two jobs and didn't see my kids...until they made sure they were seen and I changed my life. Money can rule you or not...affairs have a way of making the finances a lot less important.

The cost of affairs is huge...whatever it takes in lowering your standard of living is worth it, if you get to keep the family you're working for...IMO.

Like a Mastercard commercial...baby diapers, $20; airline tickets home, $900; No Contact...priceless.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Maybe looking at how WW feels about pulling her half of the financial marriage...being a mother...feeling demands and expectations...from within and from you...knowing you prize her over anything else...that your marriage comes first...will change everything. Getting to your nitty gritty and hers...for a new marriage.

Remember, where your focus is, there is your treasure. If you worry about money for more of your thoughts than of her; if financial security (FS) is bigger than your mutual presence, there is where your marriage is formed, priorities made.

Of course, this is coming from someone who lived below the poverty line for more than half her marriage...who placed money ahead of health; who justified anything using survival as an excuse...and didn't get that the family was worth everything...

When our money issues went away, so did our marriage...because when I had FS, I then focused on what else was missing...I was in the routine of missing...fixing...focusing...

You can see where turning that focus inward made all the difference. I know you can. Discovering what is there instead of what is not...what mattered versus what was lacking.

You are on the road, solidly, MDC. Your WW owns what she did or did not do...you are partners and you signed up to be half...and you're doing great with that half. You're seeing the blessing...accepting reality, and choosing your priorities.

Celebrate.

LA

Wow. SO much like me. I was fixated on finances. Really did think that as long as I was providing for my family I was a good husband and father. I did not put our marriage over financial security. My priorities were wrong.

Different now. All this has shown me - all too clearly - that my family is ALL that matters. Funny how I'm now willing to do what ever, move where ever, for the family. Career doesn't matter. Driving one junky car doesn't mattter. None of that matters. I don't know how we're goinig to get through this - but we are. NC IS priceless. I can see that now. Already.

Would you believe I feel a little disappointed in myself for not insisting on WW leaving the job before this? I did tell her that it was what I wanted - that we would figure out the $$ somehow...

Also, with respect to finances - I felt like I could have lived without a lot of things but was working to please WW. Which is where my resentment began. It felt to me like SHE was the one that did not value our lives, our marriage and our family over finances. That she was complaining about what we didn't have - or what we'd never have. I got sucked up in that and took focus off the M.

Am I blaming? No. It was my decision to reprioritize. Perhaps she has learned that family is THE most valuable treasure as well.

Great stuff, LA. Thanks

Hey, MDC...you're welcome...to my life. Sounds a lot like yours.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I projected my FS concerns onto my H...I saw him as wanting more, a spendaholic...his fault...when in my own miserly way, I was the one who put money ahead of the marriage...he spent money to feel better about feeling inadequate...fun stuff, being human.

Do not get down on yourself...you said, "I don't want you working with him. I want you to leave your job." Hey, that's respectful, isn't it? No demand...expressed desire. Nothing to be down on yourself...don't do it to you or you'll do it to someone else!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Naw! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Did you find the ENs within the FS? Admiration, appreciation, pride of being an adult, being our parents (or not); lots of stuff in money...that isn't about money at all.

The only things you need is your marriage, children and internet connection...and this remote control...and this thermos...

Name the movie.

LA

The Jerk!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ding Ding Ding!

It comforted me, that movie...because Steve Martin nailed the inner child in an adult body so well...

Where's your inner child and how are you caring for him?

LA

LOVE that movie. In fact I quote that line at least a couple times a year.

LA - as usual, you nailed it. Since our FS sits are so similar I will have specific situation questions for you as they come up - and they will. SF has been MAJOR feature since day 1.

I too saw my W as being a spendaholic - when all she was doing was being human. Yes I put money in front of the marriage. WW would point it out and I would say - no, no, no, no. Money is IMPORTANT. It keeps the light on.

Stage was set from BEFORE the marriage. I was laid off 3 mos before the wedding. 1 month after the wedding (honey moon baby) W was pregnant. I was still umemployed and FREAKING out about being a new husband, new dad - and no job. I've been in the freak-out mode since. I don't think I've ALLOWED this family to be OK with money. I have made it such a major feature.

Thanks for the pass on the job. I needed to hear that from someone. I will do it for myself - recognize when I am respecting myself and give appropriate credit. I will. Still learning.

What am I doing for my inner child.... I am LIVING life. I'm not stressing. I'm giving myself permission to be - ME. Not obsessing about the future. In the present. And I'm celebrating the end of the affair. There's a little boy in my saying "yipeeeeeeee".

LA - was planning on starting counseling July 1 when insurance kicks in...

Is that too long?

I could be screening counselors now in preparation. Not looking forward to weeding thru the chaff. I guess I'm feeling burned about counselors right now because the last couple days I've been thinking about how much damange the last one caused to me and our M.

Hope that that MC's words are not still ringing in my WW's head. It took me a LOT of work to get past them. He take was this - you were bad to your W in the M and she waited for you. Now she's being bad to you in the M - and it's time for you to wait for her. Made it sound so natural, understandable that WW went and got a "boyfriend" as he put it.

Each counseling session - we did 2 together, 3 on my own - was permission for WW to be in the A.

We could do Harley. But it's SO much $$. And as damanging as those sessions were, WW and I got a lot out of going toggether. Being in the same room together talking about our M.

Harely is probably best bet because he'll reinforce MB principles.

If you plan on just being in the marriage until 7/1, I don't see the problem. I would talk about your fears and desires for what counseling will be like...and save your questions about details you want from the affair for that third-party time...if you want to...

Why not try a christian-based marriage counseling search in your area...I think those are the search words I used to get to mine...and you're right, finding someone is a gift..and know God will give you that opportunity.

I liked the presence of MC, too...whatever you decide, pray about it and be led...

I'm with you on how destructive counselors can be!!! When I was in my A, my BH was depressed (ya think?) and his counselor had me in to do a reality check...I was terrified...and she pretty much said the same thing your counselor did...BH was the bad guy and got what he deserved...gosh, I can't tell you the depth of my remorse when I woke up...owning my own cruelty (I leave hers to her own) and the vastness of my disregard is rough. Mortifying...and I'm not using hyperbole here.

I like your inner boy saying "yippeee!"...I think that's your adult self, too.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree that I saw my H as a spendaholic, given my own miserliness...however, he is still struggling with his self-admitted spending to soothe and comfort addiction. The difference is, we have separate accounts...makes all the difference.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And he's come a long, long way...this was something I knew about him, he was upfront about, when we were dating...he was in consumer debt counseling then...not a hidden thing. Not a secret addiction.

There's a balance...again, how you perceive can be distorted...can still be based in a reality, when you adjust your focus, where there is two parts. I'm really glad you grasp your own part so well...I hear self-forgiveness in your post...knowing how you started off, given your patterns, there's no shame in you putting money in the wrong priority slot...nor me. Rejoice you are choosing differently.

Hey, did you see Bird's latest post? (Brokenbird)

Great to see you and get updates...

You rock.

LA

LA - I know we need to talk...about something. At this point I'm just enjoyinng my W and kids being home, having my family back and being out of the woods, as it were.

My next step is going to be sitting down with WW and going over PoJA. Just PoJA. And let that sink in for a week.

Also going to order a book of questions. So we can have dialog. Reconnect. The A is over but the connection has not been restored. Fortunately I feel a deep love between us. But a weak connection. Does that make sense?

LA, I'm surprised at my anger for the MC. It's pretty heavy. I felt betrayed by him.

I just looked at Bird's post and commented. He and are are on the same path.

Thanks as always, LA. 8 weeks ago I made the universal plea to God - "help!" - and I know that he sent you to me.

MDC -

Still around? Haven't heard anything in a few days. I hope things are going well for you and your family <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for thinking of me, Bird. Going OK I suppose. We're not talking about the relationship at all. Kind of in a holding pattern until we can get to a counselor. I bought a book of questions so we can start talking to each other - not something we've been good at.

We're working well together - cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kids - so our lives are running smoothly. It helps that WW is not working anymore. There's a gap between us. To be honest I'm not looking forward to workingo on the M - I could be wrong but it seems like it's going to take a tremendous amount of energy.

Hey, MDC!

About reconnecting..Seven Principles that Make Marriage Work...by Gottman...has some really cool re-connecting stuff in there...playful and potent.

A tremendous amount of energy...please 'splain yerself, Lucy.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Could this be those old MC's words in your head, about waiting around...when in essence, MB asks you to wait out the withdrawal? Does it rub you raw with fear (behind the anger)? I'm wondering because it isn't what the MC's meant...it means, you choose, MDC...you were betrayed. You could not have earned the affair. You're free to go. In fact, be sure you want this more than anything you've ever wanted in your life...it is that hard...and that amazing.

Get set inside you, only you. This isn't a chore list...it's a life list...you're creative and marvelous, MDC. The questions book, enjoying your WW home...do you have an agreement to be transparent in place?

Are you monitoring any contact?

Without the work laptop that hated your keylogger, are you protected all around now for monitoring?

How's your sleep? Your exercise? Sounds like I am a book of questions...heehee. Free.

LOL

((((MDC)))

LA

LA - by tremendous amount of energy I mean that it's going to be ME that leads the charge. Nothing is going to happen unless I make it happen. I'm venting - I know that BS doing the heavy lifting is par for the recovery course. Doesn't it take a great amount of effort? I see recovering BSs lamenting all the time about what a pain it is to get WSs to come along in the recovery process. Just seems like a load of crap to me. That THEY do this to the M then we're the ones that have to come in and architect a plan for putting it all back together.

It's only been 2 weeks since NC. Maybe I'm angry that there was contact when I thought there was not and NC should have been going on for 6 weeks instead of 2. Maybe I'm diappointed that WW has not offered a single word on the A, our M or our R since she's been home. Maybe I think that there's something(s) she's not telling me - like I think that there was something more to her getting fired than she said there was. Maybe I'm angry at myself that I didn't expose and I feel like she's "getting away" with something. Our neighobors came over the other night - we really haven't seen them since all this garbage kicked up. I wanted to stand on the table and yell "WW had an affair and nearly destroyed our family!!" It feels like retribution and I'm unhappy with myself for thinking this way. I don't feel the purity and centeredness that I had before she came back. All jumbled up. I knew this would happen.

Right now we're basically good roommates.

I suppose I need to recognize that she's in withdrawl. MC words aren't hanging with me - consciously anyway. I hadn't thought of it the way you put it.

Contact is being monitored. There hasn't been a single blip. I'm suspicious that there's another phone. Our a courier carrying messages from our house. Something.

We kind of have a transparency agreement in place. She asked me what I wanted and I said complete honesty about the present. And I would do that same. Well I'm not. Because I'm not sharing THESE thoughts with her. And I'm spying on her like crazy.

We were SUPPOSED to have a transparency agreement in place when I left her in Shreveport. I was working hard during that time at sharing myself with her. She was sharing nearly nothing with me - she was in contact with him.

It makes me angry that she's so freaking contrary. I was ordering the Questions book online when she asked me what I was doing. I told her I was ordreing the book so we could get to know each other better. Reconnect. "That book's not very good." Shooting me down. I know how I oculd have responded but I didn't - "Do you have a suggestion, sweetie?"

Same thing happened with I shared some things I read out of a disipline book to deal with our 4 year old. She would do this in the past. And I have not had the cheerful, plan-A attitude that I need to have. I have't bitten back either - which I used to do. My response has been neutral/positive. If that makes sense. Better than negative, I suppose.

The things that she used to do that got under my skin are having their effect again. Not as deeply - neutral/positive, not negative - but they bother me. Like she called our girl a "freak" the other day. And dropped a mean f-bomb in front of her. So I ask her not to swear like that in front of the kids. What does she do? She FIGHTS me. That's part of what wore me down in this M to begin with. WW FIGHTING. This has nothing to do with the A. It's WW, pre-A. Pre meeting me.

If I dropped an f-bomb in front of the kids and WW called me on it - which she would - I would sheepishly and sincerely apologize.

LA I know exactly what I'm doing here. You're going to have a field day with me. My expectations - wanting her to BE like me - were MY contribution to the pre-A marital breakdown.

I would like some of what Hurtingless has got. Equanimity. His WW is no more reasonable than mine yet it appears as if he's got some peace in the way he deals with her.

Maybe I AM making progress, LA, because these things I'm describing aren't getting to me in the same way that they used to. I guess I'm frustrated that they're getting to me at all and that I'm not responding how I'd like to.

No I have not really been taking care of myself. That's part of the problem. I haven't engaged at work. I'm engaged in the surface of life - cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kids - but not the underbelly.

MDC,

:::putting on my DJ patrol garb and grabbing my night stick::::

" Nothing is going to happen unless I make it happen."

Choosing to believe this DJ will make it manifest in your life. You will not see what she does, not value what she does, and eat your own lunch. Hardest part of recovery is giving yourself permission to DJ this way on this matter.

Choose differently.

Order your anger, MDC...venting is great if you can put it in order after you've written it all out.

Prioritize it...what makes you most angry? List them out, descending to least angry.

Then you'll be less angry when you finish it.

I read a lot of expectations, fear, entitlement and resentment in your vent. Those are all yours. No judgment. They feed your emotions, and give you false information because usually, they are false beliefs.

Thank goodness for MB...just realized something on Ears_Open thread...which I think will help you out here:

"I don't feel the purity and centeredness that I had before she came back."

Our issues are incubated in a relationship...with our caretakers...it is reasonable to only be able to work them out in one, isn't it? Like removing the problem instead of fixing it...you faced yourself more when she was gone with the kids and now, you're facing her more.

Still within your control.

Rely on me to throw stuff in your face...

""That book's not very good." Shooting me down." How did that shoot you down, and not the book? You feel shot down in a lot of ways...here is where your O&H shut off valve is stuck..."I feel shot down."

And it's God wanting you to get that Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work book, instead. (lol)

You are overrun with a lot of stuff not in the present...you're triggering to the marriage pre-A, during A, your own childhood issues and a ton of emotions and expectations in your head.

Cut yourself some slack. I think your eye of the storm peace gave you the belief you weren't in a storm at all...that's okay. Know you are. Know you're in the fight of your life. Withdrawal sucks. And it sucks your focus into her.

Which is within your control.

Breathing, remember that? You did a lot of that. Remember to breathe.

Might say the first step of Plan A is AIR.

Holding FWW to your own standards was an issue pre-A. Would that be correct?

Tell me all that's involved to holding someone else up to what is your own standard? What does it involve? Expectation, judgment? What does it create, resentment?

And you know the book I would raise my children over with? Only one...Between Parent and Child...changed me as an adult.

Okay, so you caught yourself, Mr. Fancy Pants, and already saw all that I posted. Was this a trap? LOL Didn't see where you caught your focus consumed where it has no control, though. Neener.

"cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kids"

An idea for you...to change these from the perspective of chores, to the perspective of worship...each act...cooking...cleaning...caring for the kids...lifted up as an act of prayer. Would that help your center? Privileges instead of must-do's (and hey, what's with all the have to's in your post?)...being present in your own action doing them, celebrating you are there with the ability to do them at all, not in a bachelor studio apartment, missing your family like a hole in the center of your soul.

You know you can bash back, right?

I can take it.

Bring it on.

You're going through WS's withdrawal...which is the most resentment making time there is...who are they to mourn a fantasy? Gosh, been there, felt that...it is us denying reality as much as they were...are...and you want to be worked for, don't you? This is their work...this is the rough road back...and you want them back. You just want the pain to stop. Know this. You are centered with truth, not emotions.

(I'm so glad you post...more! More!)

LA

Update, please...

LA

LA - I've been lurking and not posting. Not thinking too much about recovery. Or anything really. No discussion to date of A. I haven't done anything with it. Have not researched MCs. Stalled out...

BTW - NC since 6/9. OM has made a few feeble attempts. All very off-putting to W as she has told me.

How is your RC time with your W? Those 15 hours of UA?

Inquiring minds just MUST know.

You sound down and numb to me. Then again, I have to guess, uhm, don't I?

Financially, has she gotten another job? How are your stress levels?

Can you open your mouth and say "Ahhhhhh Ha!" for me?

LA