Here is my short history. anniversary ten years 10/05, then need for space from H 11/05, I knew about A he wouldn't tell me, I uncovered info and confronted 1/7. Since then we have had lots of talks, arguments, ideas......H has said no contact since 1/12. There have been several questionable events which have turned out to be nothing I can find. H swears that he has had no contact. A month ago I confronted him and asked for the whole story. I said I needed to know everything to move on. I think this was hard on him, but he did it. I waited about another week while internalizing these ideas. I haven't said anything about the A since. I asked him to commit to the MB contract and to finish reading SAA with me. I asked him to wear his wedding ring as a symbol to this. He made some comments about not wanting to, BUT put it on the next day and has had it on ever since. Wears it all the time. H has been making comments this week about how much he loves me- which he hasn't initiated in a long time. H said to my son don't you know I am a magician- I made my happy family disappear. He has also started to make comments about things that he felt were wrong that he has done. Honestly I think he is ready to move forward, BUT


I am not sure I am able to heal without:

1. a sorry for what he has done (the reason that it was done was out of selfishness to remove himself from the pain of our stressful lives. While leaving me with more stress.) He said it was a way to get away from our problems, but was never willing to leave the kids with family to take us all away from stress!

2. H has trouble with intamcy and has never been willing to give me a true validation of his love. We were married by a notary alone. I asked for a vow renewal this year. I wanted him to say to me and everyone that he loved me and announce it to the world. H has come a looong way in the 12 years we have been together. I have helped him grow emotionally and he knows it.

3. H has trouble discussing the situation, going to a MC, or spending anytime focusing on fixing the M. He says why do I have to work on it- it should come natural when you love someone (I know you will all disagree that you need to work on a marriage as you grow). He wants to be happy all the time and that is his only goal. He puts up this facade and then does work on things and tries to make change. By the by two MC later and the H refuses to go again! MC have been hurtful to both of us. MB is great!!!! but can't afford counseling through here.

4. H has trouble being a big enough person to admit problems and grow from them. I am the opposite. I will risk all humiliation to grow as an individual. I have let down all my wall to let him come in, but he sits and looks at me.

5. I need to know he loves me and is commited to only me for the rest of our lives, because he loves me and nothing else- not because of kids, or circumstances,or anything else, just because I am a neat person and he loves me.



I am about to throw in the towel after months of working just because I am scared that I will never get the things above that I need to grow. anyone else feel this way? Anyone else have a spouse who refuses counseling, but wants to work in his own way (WH is almost just avoiding it because it is too painful!)

any help that you can give me would be great.

Is he willing to do this? If you cannot afford MB coaching, this might be a good beginning, and once you have completed the book and the exercises, you might scrape together enough money just for a session or two to get yourselves on track and/or keep yourselves there.


Fabulous!



As much as I understand, I would encourage you to be content - heck, be THRILLED with the fact that he is being proactive in his declarations of love. As far as sorry is concerned, it is merely a word. My STBX said it time after time, but stayed in the affair. Look instead for signs of remorse. Behavioral changes can indicate true remorse far better than can words alone.


I think this is way premature and demanding. You may not believe it, but he is healing from this as well as you. Baby steps.

I have more comments, but need to log off. I will be back later this evening.

OK. I'm back. Here is the rest of what I wanted to say.


Not terribly surprising. Remember, this is embarrassing to him, he is ashamed and guilty.


That is what I am hopeful he will glean in terms of knowledge and understanding from SAA.


I'm curious as to why you see it as a facade.


More common than you know. Mars vs. Venus thing. Men and women are so totally different in these regards, and understanding those differences - on both sides can help bridge the gap. That's why the EN questionnaire is recommended.


Well, of course you do. We all need to know we are loved. What do you think you would require on his part to make you feel this way?



Well, don't toss that towel just yet. He is with you and is making honest efforts and some progress. This is not a quick process and it is not a painless process.

Let me ask you this: you say MB is great. What does he know about this site? Would he be willing to post here and get support? There is no reason he would need to identify himself as connected to you - unless he so chooses. This might be a great place for him to honestly ask for help and support and to air his concerns, limitations, etc.

"Look instead for signs of remorse. Behavioral changes can indicate true remorse far better than can words alone." Thanks I really needed to hear this! I do see very very few and could easily be missed signs of remorse or thought of remorse.

Oh about"I asked for a vow renewal this year. I wanted him to say to me and everyone that he loved me and announce it to the world." This was previous to the A. I asked him to recommit and give me a ring.... to show he cared-not for the materialism of it. He gave me the ring and began the A the next week he said it was because of the ring and how I was upset at how he presented it- he said, here it is. It cost as much as two kayaks- YUK!! IT MAKES ME FEEL IT WAS ABOUT THE MONEY. I just wanted to hear his love for me. What I got was an A and still no I love yous.


Because WH has trouble with admitting his feeling he puts up a front like, I don't think that this will work because ...... I think that you did this- I truly listen to his ideas and then think later it is an excuse for what he did and i know it is because it changes constantly. Supposedly for ten years he hasn't love me... but we had children??? and lots of good times?? Very little LB, and great time. We are the type of couple other people say you two look so happy!! (I hear it constantly). So anyways, I explain how things are and what needs to happen from the saa book. I paraphrase for him because he can't concentrate (his words) on the book. Then the next day he tries the things from the book. Do I believe, It won't work and I hate you, or the next day I love you and here is what I will do??


"We all need to know we are loved. What do you think you would require on his part to make you feel this way?" I am not sure. I think this is the real problem I am having now I don;t now what I need?? This make me sad and confused. I think do I even need him? I know I love him, but my insides want to push him away. Mostly because he can't show me that he loves me. I will know when he does. He just hasn't given all of himself. I think for me that entails total honesty- even about what he is thinking in the car ride from here to the store. It also entails sympathy for my pain and remorse for what he has done. As my H knew that my father did this to my family and became so selfish that he neglected me. It caused me to not speak to him for 7 years. Then H repeated his behavior and is showing me that he is selfish and uncaring. I am having deep trouble getting past without any remorse from him. I tell myself he need to feel loved before this can come, but "I am all out of love I am so lost without him I know I am wrong believing for so looooong."- Sorry I have been listening to too many songs about love.

So basically H need to begin to take over some of this healing and initiate recovery. I wait and feel more resentful as we continue to focus on just being happy (which i am not).


Lastly, I want to say H is too tough and manly to post here. Althoguh he is a soft and gentle man . I think this is his facade he hides behind.

confused and wanting someone to talk to me and tell me it is worth it.

Hang in there, but don't expect him to be remorseful just yet. Sometimes it takes a long time, but most are very remorseful.

Right now recovery is mostly on you, but that can change.

Cfc, my H said he "got it" over 18mos ago. I knew he didn't, he kept justifying his actions and making excuses for bad choices. I finally convinced him to come to MC. After 6mos he had stubbornly continued to maintain his stance.

I told him I couldn't contribute to this contaminated relationship anymore and asked him to move out. He started dating but continued to try and convince me he deserved a 2nd chance.

He finally started IC about 5mos ago and committed to 10 sessions to show me he meant business. After the 5th or 6th session he told me he thought he'd need more than 10 sessions.

Since then he's made huge changes and we are back in MC. IC was a huge step for him because he subscribes to the same macho mag as your H. He didn't really buy into the whole "psycho babble" thing but ended up suprising himself.

All this to say change is possible, we're not there yet but definitely better off than 1yr ago.

sorry what is IC?

And I guess to sum up my question, I want to ask why do I feel so empty? I wanted H to do just what heis doing now for the past 6 months, but now that I have it, I am confused. I think I want my cake and to eat it too. I want H to say he loves me and wants to make it work. I feel that up until this point I have been telling H what needs to happen. He has done everything,but I am scared he is going to say I am controlling again. He said that was one reason he had the affair, but this was not true. At the time I was telling him to do whatever he wanted to make himself happy and he did!


Last night he was trying to do things to make it work and I was cold. NOt rude or disrespectful , just not warm caring and inquizative (sp?) as I aalways am. What is worng? What should I do now? The more I try to take care of myself the less I need him and the less I want him.

Maybe he is right we haven't loved each other for ten years???!


COnfused and needing help. H will be home in an hour and i don't know what to say.

This was probaly confusing, but helpful to work my ideas out.

That's exactly how I feel! And H said "he refuses to kiss anyone a$$ including mine" but then I got the affair never happened! So, now, I'm even more confused and don't know what to believe or what I need to move on! I'm leaving for my Individual Counseling (IC) in a little whole and I think H needs it to. It must be their up bringing, not being aloud to express their emotion. In 13 years, I don't think I've ever seen my H cry, even after the death on a close relative!

I feel like I'm the only one trying to make things work! just keep in mind, you Have to keep on track! Marriage is hard work! we all know that!

wow I think you are in the same marriage as me. Do you feel that you don't want to wrok on it sometimes. I think I hav eto assume he loves me, because he will never be able to kiss my hjfg;dh or say his true feelings- too manly!

Cfc; IC is individual councelling. It took about 1yr for my H to finally to buy into trying it. I think his initial incentive was to convince me he was making an effort but after a few sessions he found it very helpful for him personally.

For me part of that empty feeling was because he was finally willing to make an effort but not until we were just on the verge of oblivion. All the time I asked for attention and communication didn't seem to affect him but now that he's about to lose everything, he's ready to try.

Of course it feels like you might be better off on your own-if you turn towards him it feels like walking back into the fire and trusting him that you won't get burned. That's alot of trust that's not backed up by a lot of history.

If you still feel love for him then you're already one step ahead of me so I'd say it's worth another try.

Try to relate to him based on his present behavior rather than past(even if "present" has only been in existence for a couple of weeks). This might make it easier for you to address his EM.

One step at a time and eventually we'll get there.

cfc

I guess it's normal at some point to feel that way. I called mine the anger stage, when hatred feelings started. It was when I started to think... what am I doing here? Maybe I'd be better without him, etc.

It's just a normal reaction I believe specially if WS are not acting for our expectations, and from what I read they seldom are.

As BS we'de like them to tell us uncountless times "I'm sorry" I love you" etc, but they have their own issues, and one is that the saying it it's a reminder of their wrong doing.

And yes, rebuilding is much about us, BS, and it get's harder then the anger phase. Be strong.

Policy of Radical Honesty, as much as you can make him understand it, is the key. I am still strugling to make my H follow it.

You should be able to talk to him about how you feel, he needs to understand and support you when you feel that way.

Are you in plan A? Have the A been exposed?

Do you talk about it? Does he know why? The real why, not the lousy justifications they arrange to easy their guilty feelings and trow responsability at the BS.

My anger stage lasted at least for 2 months <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

CFC- I probabaly am in the same marriage as you! LOL H got pi$$ed that I checked his cell phone bill Say I was treating him like a child, said if he really wanted to talk to her there are other phones he could use! I told him you don't earn trust back that way! H said he knows! Tough guy complex I guess! I'll keep you up to date!