This website endorses marriage at any cost. That I cannot condone. While marriage may be sanctified, it isn't always consecrated. Am I wrong to find this wrong? I think not. Human beings are mercurial beings. We change with time, place, situation, age, etc. To think each of us will be exactly the same for one partner through out one lifetime is irresponsible.

Lest you think I'm some adultress, I was discarded by my ex-H. Yes. He had an affair and left me. Woe is me. I NEVER had an affair while married. I was a 'good' girl. Whatever.

But, what I found was this... love is beyond bounds. I loved my husband. I love me, now. I'm hoping to share my love with a partner in the near future. However this partner manifests, I hope to be open to it.

?

No, it doesn't. The site provides a system for recovery should you 'choose' to restore a broken marriage.

Individuals who post on the site may endorse staying in the marriage at any cost but they are individual opinions.

I don't recall ever reading any material on this site that would support your claim.

In fact, Dr. Harley says in numerous places not all marriages should be saved.

There are several people here, myself included, who elect to divorce after trying to save their marriage.

The interesting difference about the Marriage Builder approach is that Dr. Harley emphasizes romantic love. The goal is not so much to save the marriage, but to restore romantic love to both spouses, which usually results in the marriage being saved.

Did you read the entire site, not just the posts of individuals? That is key.

Not at all cost, but it does encourage both spouses to exhaust all efforts before resorting to D. It encourages the BS to look at themselves and change things they are doing wrong, even though A was the fault of the WS.

On the surface this may seem unfair to the BS. However, I am to the point where I realize that I'm glad I can look back and say I tried my best. I can get a D without feeling regrets for things I could have done.

This site is based on a Biblical view of marriage. When we marry we should become as one person (or team) and as such we should change together with time, place, situation, age, etc. When this doesn't happen, it's because there is a problem in the marriage. This site is optimistic that any problem can be fixed if both spouses really try.

I don't know about the vows you took, but mine included "until death do us part." I married for life and I meant it. Unfortunately, my STBX didn't take his vows seriously.


And I consider this statement and this viewpoint disrespectful of marriage, irresponsible and possibly immature. Sorry, but I feel that way.

I have a great respect for marriage. What I do not respect is keeping two people together who clearly should not be together. I was married at the age of 20 with 3 children by the age of 26. That's a lot of life and stress going on. We stayed married for 15 years, and my vows did mean a lot to me. I wasn't the one who had the affair; however I now realize the best thing that could have happened to me was my divorce. Why? I'm happier. The ex-H is happier. The kids are happier. The xtian god forbid human beings should be happy, eh? No wonder I'm not a xtian. Thankfully.

Totally disagree. If you respect marriage and the vow of marriage, you do not make the second statement.


So? Do you think you are different from a lot of others who endured much more and made their marriages work?


The fact that you didn't have the affair doesn't give you a permission slip to end the marriage. I would be curious as to exactly what you may have done to try to save your relationship.


Hmmmmm.


They may appear to be. They are young; you are young. Study the long-term effects of children of divorce. Children do NOT fare better with divorced parents. No matter what they may appear to be reaping. Long-term, it hurts them. Terribly.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do. And, if you feel so strongly that this site frightens you, perhaps it is not the right place for you.

Hmmm, are you showing me the door? Do I truly frighten you that much? Interesting.

As for my children, here is a synopsis for you:

oldest - male, 20 yo - in college, doing well. We are quite close and enjoy long conversations.

middle - female, 17 yo - she is living in Japan on study abroad. She is a talented artist and a 'go-getter'. Not to mention, she is in frequent contact with me AND her father (and step-mother).

youngest - male, 15 yo - well, this one escapes easy explanation! He is bright, funny, cute, goofy, and more things that I can possibly say. Suffice this... he is in a band and wants to be a chef. I'm thinking a travelling musical chef could be a winning combination, lol.

So, what think you Girl (your name gives me MUCH to think about).

Actually though, this is not about personal attributes. This is about divorce. Divorce ain't fun. Or easy. Or pretty.

But, divorce is REALITY for many of us. That reality does not have to be a nightmare. Is that what you wish? That those who married in error should be bound to a nightmare forever? No doubt you find humans incapable of error. Hmmm? Wait, wait wait, xtianity teaches that people are inherently sinful and full of error. Yet, marriage is permanent. Weird.

There's a door?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I respect that this site frightens you, LK.

What I don't get is your payoff in being on here. Yes, divorce is a reality for many...too many, is what Dr. Harley says...and he's attempting to show another way...

Wasn't for you. I get that. Many here don't make it. Some do. Some make thriving marriages after infidelity.

You sound like a flamer...you don't own that YOU believe Christianity teaches that people are inherently sinful and full of error...you state it as fact.

How does that work in your marriage?

LA

You don't have to be Christian to believe in till death do you part. I am an atheist, and I believe that marriage, like parenthood, is forever. What difference does it make if you "change"? You don't abandon your kids when they change from cute little toddlers who think the world of you into sometimes snarling preteens who think you know absolutely nothing - and it is hard to imagine a change more drastic than that.

It is not up to me to show you the door or not. This is a public forum and discussion board. You choose to belong and post as long as you abide by the rules.

Frighten me? You do not know me at all.

This site is not about Divorce.
This site is not about Infidelity.

This site is about how to built and keep a good Marriage. It is about keeping love and romance alive.

Had you and your XH read this site right after you married and you probably would not be divorced. Or at least not divorced because of an Affair.

And you probably would be very happy. And your kids even happier.

This site comtemplates Infidelity because it is a great cause for Marriage failure.
But Infidelity in many cases is just a reflex of a bad stage in M.
This site is mostly about creating and building a safe strong marriage.

So if you read the Infidelity articles, you'll find many situations where Divorce is advised.

But, the BEST about MB principals is not about keeping the M at all cost, it's about people re-building them selves while trying to safe the marriage.
It's about helping both Spouses on how to heal after the A.

Quote:
We change with time, place, situation, age, etc. To think each of us will be exactly the same for one partner through out one lifetime is irresponsible.
_________

I don't think this is as much offensive, it sounds just immature to me, os based on some kind of inner anger.


Well, guess what, This site helps people and their MARRIAGE to GROW, to change with time, place, situation, age.

Of course... this takes lots of work.

Quote:
I was married at the age of 20 with 3 children by the age of 26. That's a lot of life and stress going on. We stayed married for 15 years, and my vows did mean a lot to me.
_______________

Isn't it wonderful when a relationship survives all this and much more????

Read the WHOLE website, and maybe you will be able to guide your kids t built a strong Marriage from the beggining <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Not all make it after an Affair... but ask those who made it HOW MUCH REWARDING it is.

I am yet to find a Happy person with so much bitterness over nothing.

Lirekal,

Why are you posting, anyway, other than to extol the virtues of your ex-H's OW and of divorce? Aside from trolls, people come here initially because of some issue related to marriage.

I am the product of divorced parents. It has been many years and while I can look and say my mother is defintely happier with hew new husband. I would still give anything to have my parents together. I mean when I got married I had to worry about where my father was sitting where my mother sitting and all that stress. The mess of the divorce never goes away. I can tell you what they fought about, how it felt for me, and how it felt watching my father move.

Now since I was older I did not have to deal with going to my fathers home for the weekend. My sister did and she resented it each and every time. As a result we do not have the greatest relationship with my father and blame him for the divorce (he had an affair).

I swore I would never put mu children through this. I believed that I would do everything if needed to save my marriage. Well, my H had an affair and even after that I was willing to work really hard and try everything. It did not work H was not interested.

I agree children are better with both parents living together. I think people do change over time, but you need to embrace those changes. Not say oh, you changed I want something new. I think people do that because it is so easy. It is much easier to find someone new that it is to deal and work with the person you have. I truly think that divorce is so commonplace that people think it is no big deal anymore.

The thought of my children being shuttled back and forth rips me apart. I never ever wanted that for them and all the stress that comes with divorced parents.

So I think this web site should stress marriage and I think more people should take the vowes more to heart and when something goes wrong work it out TOGETHER. I do believe that there are some marriages that should not be saved a friend of mine was battered I do not believe under those circumstances she should have stayed.

Just my opinion.

Hello again,

Well, interesting responses indeed. I suppose I came (back) here because I was here 7 years ago and find this narrow view of human relationships problematic. At one point in time, I thought this site was the end-all and be-all. All I'm saying is this...not all marriages survive. Mine did not. Why? Honestly, I think we were too young when we got married and weren't very good at marriage. We grew apart. We went through our twenties getting married, having three kids, going through financial difficulties, etc. It took a toll. Ultimately, we have become friends. He's not a bad man, and I'm not a bad woman; we just weren't very good together. Sometimes it takes more courage to admit failure. Believe me, it was hard for me to admit failure.

I suppose I hope I'm offering some hope to people who find themselves divorcing. It doesn't have to be the end of the world. The children do NOT have to be damaged. The co-parents don't have to hate one another. Life goes on, sometimes to new places you never thought you'd go. It certainly happened that way for me. And for my ex.

As for my kids, well, I know it was hard for them. I certainly know my daughter suffered, especially in the beginning. But, with love and reassurance, she knows that her mom and dad and step-mom all love her. Hey, life ain't easy. If this is the worst my kids ever go through, then I am thankful. Especially considering the atrocities of human history.

So, you may find this very interesting, but I spend the holidays with my kids, my ex, and my wife-in-law. Along with my ex-inlaws and my own family. My kids know they are loved by many people. Xmas Eve (which means little to me, but a lot to my kids) is spent together with the ex and wife-in-law, and me. We all love them. And we want them to feel secure and loved. Is that wrong?

For those who want to fight for their marriages, good luck and I have nothing but respect for you. I suppose I just want to offer some hope for those who decide to end it. It's not failure, just a change of plans. Life is what you make it. Any god who condemns human beings for admitting a mistake is a god I have no interest in knowing.

I too am a child of divorce, though I was an adult when my parents divorced. Perhaps because I was an adult, my perspective was different, but I was happy for them. My parents were not happy together. I knew this when I was 5 years old and they stayed together far too long. They stayed together for "the kids". As a result, our lives were miserable. Believe me. I saw the misery first hand. So, I have the perspective of an unhappy child and a happy mother. Which is better or worse?

I await your responses.

So, that's the size of it. I'm an imperfect human being who strives to be better. Thankfully, the Goddess allows do-overs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (I have a special place in my heart for mercy).


Blessed be.
Lirekal

I could not disagree more. I have yet to know of any children who were not damaged by divorce. Sometimes the extent of the damage doesn't show up for years, but it is always there.

An OW NEVER has the children's best interests at heart - otherwise she would never have an affair with their father and destroy their family.

I am horrified by the statement

Quite possibly having your parents shot by terrorists in front of you would be even worse than divorce, but just because there are even worse atrocities doesn't mean you should minimize the effects of divorce. Most of the other horrible things that can happen do not involve BETRAYAL by someone you trust.

It doesn't matter what religion, or lack thereof, you believe in - there are no do-overs in life.

Just out of curiousity, why would you come here, to a site for rebuilding a marriage, to strike up a debate? That's just odd.

These are people who choose to save their marriage and are looking for help in doing so. They PICKED this place to come to. Marriagebuilders is specifically designed for SAVING MARRIAGES! It's not here to "bash" people who chose divorce. I'M divorced, so I'm certainly not judging you for that! But I come here to learn, NOT debate! For you to come in here, and throw yourself into these concepts with your opinions, is like going into a Catholic church, and asking if you can preach Mormanism. Not that either one is "wrong", just that it is where people with the same beliefs choose to gather.

So we are all happy, that you have found peace in your choice. Now let these people have the peace in theirs! HASTA!

LK,

Thank you for your last post. I understand better what your intent was...and I was wondering why you felt these people had shame in divorcing...of not saving their marriage, when they are walking away by choice, having done everything they possibly could?

LA

First of all, this website does not endorse marriage at any cost.

Second of all, even if it did, so what? Why would I care that you condone or condemn a site? People who like this site, read it and post here; people who do not, read and post elsewhere. We all have different view points on things. So what?

Third of all, please let us know what is really bothering you. You sound like you are really, really hurting. Are you just angry that other people were able to save their marriages, while you were not? Is that what is bothering you? We are here for you.