The problem here is people do not understand the meaning of marriage, why do we marry in the first place? We made a choice to be with someone, to marry, raise a family and grow old together. Did you know everything about your partner before getting married? Chances are no...My XW and I talked about people having affairs many times and we always said that we will never do it to each other and I believed her. Well I was wrong. Yes people change, people expect that the euphoric relationship will continue forever, too bad, having kids, life responsibilities of a family will change anyone. The question is "How do we adjust to this change". My XW and I spent six years giving attention to our kids, was it a mistake? probably, but it was a choices we made because we felt it was important. Without communication, our marriage began to drift, without talking to me and instead confiding to another guy, she was convinced that she was unhappy. She fell in love with him and without remorse had an affair and left me and her kids.

No this site is a good site, it has helped me learn, cope and to a point recover from my XW affairs. It has helped me understand that I am not alone on this road. If I were to find another love in the near future or ever feel like rebuilding my relationship with XW, I will direct her to this site, god did not make us perfect, so therefore there is no perfect relationship.

The law in this country makes it so much easier for people to divorce, in the best interest of both parties, but our kids are the ones who suffers the most.

I will admit to marrying too young and for reasons that were more about my own insecurities rather than truly understanding what marriage was. I suppose I'm wondering if everyone here thinks that the mistakes of youth should haunt us forever. Honestly, I've never been happier than since my divorce. Now, that's not to say it started OUT that way. Goodness no! It was a difficult road, but I really love my life now.

Also, I did not mean to imply that my children were not affected (or even damaged by the divorce), but I do think that growing up in an atmosphere where parents are constantly bickering is damaging too (and sometimes more-so). What I think is important here is that my kids learned that life has it's hard times, but we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and move on. There's something to be said for the ability to start over when necessary.

As for why I came here, I truly didn't mean to denigrate trying to save a marriage. I suppose I only wanted to offer hope to those whose marriages do fail. You don't have to hate yourself or spend your life in self-flagellation because of it. There IS life after divorce -for the the spouses and the children.

As for the OW, I decided my children were better served by being friends with her than hating her. Now, don't get me wrong. It took a lot of work on both our parts, but we now get along quite nicely. My kids don't have to choose which parent goes to band concerts or graduation or (someday) their weddings. I just didn't want them having to choose. Me, dad, and the wife-in-law (that's what I call her - he he he) sit together at functions. We confer about the kids and what is best for them. It may not be ideal, but my kids are well-adjusted and wonderful human beings that I am very proud of.

I don't expect my opinions to be particularly popular here, but I do hope they give comfort to some. Divorce isn't pretty or fun, but it is sometimes necessary. And, I figure, why make life a misery when it doesn't have to be?

Blessings,
Lirekal

L, I agree that divorce is sometimes necessary. I'm divorced, for the reason that my XH was an alcoholic/drug addict. The drugs came into the picture after we were married. And I have accepted my new life after divorce, and like you, wish to offer hope to those, whose marriage didn't last.

I think the reason for so many here getting defensive with your post is because of your title, "This site frightens me". That doesn't send the same messege as "Offering Hope after a Divorce", to let others know that there is life after a divorce. So that was a little misleading.

I also, am friends with my XH and his wife. I'm happy that he has found happiness with someone else, because I couldn't be that person for him. I wasn't happy, and his substance abuse was the cause. My kids didn't need to be raised around that either. So I do understand that viewpoint. BUT...this site does not scare me.

Best wishes to you...

Jen

Thanks Jen,

I appreciate your response. I suppose the title of the post is quite off-putting. Well, I'm not perfect and I've never pretended to be. Bad title. Hopefully my responses since have redeemed me to some extent. Or not. Who knows? All I know is this, there IS life after divorce, and that is what I meant to convey.

Blessings.

Well, I do see what you meant, and I understand your point. So as far as I'm concerned, I think you are redeemed! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I agree with alot of what you say concerning divorce. No, it is not something we think about at a young age, when we were unable to see the clear picture, and truly grasp the reality of marriage. I was 19 and pregnant with twins, at the time, then I had another at 20. They are now 18 and 17. Their father was just here for the twins' graduation, and we get along great. His wife, however, didn't come. She still feels a little shy around my family.

My XH is clean and sober now for 6 years, and I don't think we would have ended up anywhere near friends, had I stayed in the marriage. So there was ALOT salvaged in divorcing. It was benenficial in many more ways than the marriage, itself was. The kids, as well, now see their father in a different light.

So I'm right there with you, as far as offering hope to others that there is indeed, life after divorce. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thankyou, Lirkal, for clearing this up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Jen

And, thank you Jen for reading my responses. I've always been too abrasive - it's one of my less appealing qualities. I really never mean to be, but it comes off that way. You know, there are some people here who truly can save their marriages. I wish them well, truly. At one point I did love my ex-H. I don't anymore, but I don't hate him either. Is it wrong to be friends with the ex? I don't think so. We were too young. Good grief, I had my first child at 21 years old. I was practically a baby myself.

So, thanks Jen. I hope others will read my responses and realize I never meant to be so abrasive. All I ever wanted to do was to give those who divorce some hope.

Blessings,
Lirekal

(((Lirekal))) I think others will come to the same understanding that I did! It was no big deal, really.

And I think, (if you wish), you are able to change your title. I'm just not sure I remember how. Oh, I think you can click into "edit" (on one of your posts), and go in and edit it. Yep, I believe that's the way you do it. But only if you want to. I think your true messege comes out in these latter posts!

You're a nice gal with alot to offer! And others will come to realize that and appreciate you for it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Thankyou, Lirekal!

Jen

PS... I would also like to apologize, for being rude. I have the special gift of shooting off my thoughts just a little too soon!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Hey, my mouth often gets the better of me too (or my fingers, as it were). Jen, no hard feelings. This should prove that we human beings are fallible, eh? I've never been one to hold grudges. And, I was wrong. I've never shirked from my stupidities. Don't intend to start now.

I'm trying to figure out how to change the subject title, but perhaps it is too late. Maybe I should start a new thread and explain the problem? Good grief. I can be obtuse at times. ''''sigh''''

So, all best my friend,
Lirekal

Hey, Lirekal.

No hard feelings!! Fresh slate, here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My computer went down, but I think I fixed it, temporarily anyway.

I changed my title once by going into the edit box (at the top right hand corner of one of your posts), and just erased the old one, and put in a new one.

But your idea of starting another thread is good, too!

Anyway, you have a good night...I need to get to bed! And thanks again, Lirekal! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jen

I like the title change, LK...thank you. Nice to meet you.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Good job, LK, with the title change! Looks good!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Hope your day is well! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Jen

How exactly did you get to decide that they would be "friends" with her? Don't your kids have minds of their own? My older kids did not want their father, much less the OW, at their graduations, and at least one of them would refuse to go to their siblings' graduations if their father were present. Since they care about their siblings' feelings far more than they do about their father's, he has missed several graduations already.

Why would you even want to encourage your children to be anything more than civil to an OW, someone who is such a horrible role model, even if your encouragement could make a difference to anyone older than about 8, which I doubt?

Nellie, it is better to teach our children acceptance than bitterness and hate. And by this, I DON'T mean acceptance of the behavior of the cheating parent and the other person. I mean the acceptance the we do NOT have the power to change the choices of another.

I don't believe for a minute that it is healthy to be negative. This can be just as damaging to a child as the actions of a wayward parent or the other person.

LK's messege is to offer hope to those whose marriages did not survive. And sometimes, they just don't. We need to HELP our children, when this is the case. Sometimes a failed marriage is beyond our control, but instead of dwelling over it this, we need to ACCEPT it and move on.

My parents divorced and remarried before I was 10 years old. I am not "damaged" in the least. My parents were respectful and peaceable toward each other. I loved my parents. I loved my stepparents. I loved my siblings all... MUCH later on, I learned my stepmother had had an affair with my father when he was married to my mother. I went to my mother and asked her if it was true. She told me it was, but that there were more things wrong with their marriage, than just his affair. I was able to still have a good relationship with my stepmother, because my mother said that ultimately, my father and her were the people in their marriage -- and they just couldn't make it work.
Luckily, my mother had long since married my stepfather who ADORES her and treats her as she deserves -- so I could see my mother ended up in a happier place. Perhaps that's why I could forgive my father and stepmother? Because my mother was also happy in her own life?

I strongly disagree that this site pushes marriage at any cost. Some people have extreme views in both directions -- divorce and maintenance of a marriage at all costs -- but this site is supposed to be about building a GOOD marriage. About love, and marriage as it should be. At least that's what I get...

Nellie,

I meant I (me) became friends with the OW (now wife-in-law). I have never forced my children to like or dislike someone. Fortunately, she is a good person. Yes, she made a mistake, but she's not a demon. Soon after my divorce someone told me I could be "bitter or better." I chose better. This was probably the most useful advice I've ever been given. Why be nasty? It doesn't solve anything. And, it only serves to further inflict damage on all concerned, especially the children.

Now, I don't know about you, but my kids have had considerable contact with the OW, as she and my ex-H were married a few months after the divorce was final. That was over 5 years ago. Should the kids be miserable when they visit dad? By embracing the OW myself, I gave my kids permission to like her. And I've found that she is actually a very nice woman who is very good to my kids. I think my marriage fell apart less because of the affair and more because of mistakes me and the ex made.

NOw, I know there are probably many affair partners who are not good people. There are many marriages affected by affairs that don't end in divorce. For those less fortunate than me, I am very sorry. I refuse to be miserable for the rest of my life, however. For the marriages that succeed - my compliments and admiration.

Blessings.

Your children feel that they need your permission? And if so, would they feel that they do not have permission to dislike her?

If I had pretended the OW was a "good person who made a mistake," I would have lost the respect of my two almost adult children immediately, and of the younger ones as they got older. When my H began his affair, our younger children were too young to know what adultery was, but the older ones did, and felt VERY strongly about it. They told me in no uncertain terms that if my H ever decided to come back, and I let him, they would never come to visit if he were there. One of the kids has not spoken to him in seven years. Even if I had somehow convinced the younger kids that the OW was practically Mother Theresa, do you think that the older ones would not have disabused them of that notion?

It is not possible to be a good person and an unrepentent OW at the same time. No unrepentent OW can be a good role model, anymore than can, say, an embezzeler, no matter how "nice" they are.

You wouldn't encourage your children to ignore the fact that someone is immoral if that immorality manifested itself in stealing material goods, violence, or other criminal activity. Having an affair and then marrying the WS/OP is morally equivalent to robbing a bank and then keeping the money.

Bellemere,

No marriage is perfect - an affair results in the WS deciding to refuse to put any effort into the marriage. The reason your parents could not make it work was because one or both of them decided not to try, almost certainly because of the existence of the OW.

Nellie, kids need the reassurance that it's "ok" to like the other person. So they won't feel like they are betraying their parent. And this ALSO assures them that they are not in a tug of war battle! They know they are not being USED as tools for the adults to get back at each other with. LK is NOT taking away her children's independence. She is teaching them ACCEPTANCE of the things they can NOT change.

It IS possible to love someone, but NOT love their actions. And in LK's case, this man IS THEIR FATHER. And if their is ANY possibe way for them to maintain a relationship with him, then it IS in their best interest! FOR THE KIDS, NOT the adults!

Why on EARTH would we want to teach our children bitterness and hate? Why would we encourage that? NO, they don't nor should they accept BAD behavior! But they SHOULD accept WHO they have for their father! Because THAT will NEVER change, even if we wanted it to! And like it or not, OW is there and a part of their father. So we need to make the BEST of it, FOR THE CHILDREN!!!

No, it's not always possible, in all cases, to do this. But if it IS possible, then it should be done!

And Bellemere is a PERFECT example, that we don't have to live our lives as VICTIMS! It was NOT nice to insult her parents, without knowing ALL of the facts! The very fact that Bellemere has adjusted so well to her situation, was because of GOOD parenting, NOT a BAD marriage.

Good grief, this is indeed Marriage Builders, but this is the DIVORCE/DIVORCING forum. Where is one to inquire/opine about divorce on the site if not for right here?

I am not the same person at 40 as I was at 20. I will not be the same person at 60 as I am now. My W liked who I was at 20, but will what she found adoring at 20 be annoying at 40? You know, I made some pretty boneheaded decisions when I was young (I still make some) and I think many people do too. One of the mistakes one makes in youth is to marry without really considering what it means. It is hard to see 60 when you are 20.

The fact is that people change; sometimes radically. What we value changes with time and experience too: love, sex, money, kids, hobbies, family, vacations, homes, second homes, travel, religion, friends . . . the importance of all these things change as we mature. Often what was important at one time no longer is and what was a passing interest becomes a passion.

One thing that this site tries to do, in my opinion anyway, is to try to get both spouses to consciously be aware that our mates have needs; that these needs are not static, and if we want to have our spouses to feel romantic love for us we best stop love busting them, find out what these needs are, and start meeting them to the best of our ability.

I certainly agree that all marriages shouldn’t be saved. I think that kids are harmed by divorce, but they are also harmed by being exposed to a couple in a dysfunctional, hate-filled, neglectful marriage. Which harms kids more? I guess it would depend upon the kids. My parents divorced whist I was a toddler. My parent’s divorce wasn’t particularly devastating to me. The fact that they couldn’t be in the same room for most of my life certainly was though. Many of my friends would come to my house; spend the night or the weekend, to escape from their parent’s bickering. Funny, I was supposed to be the poor divorced kid and here come a gaggle of kids from intact families seeking the quiet of my poor home. (My Mom is a great cook and loves to cook for others, I’m sure that this helped entice some to come and stay a while).

What was my point? Nothing more than Welcome lirekal!

I agree with you that bitterness and hatred serves no one. However, I also know very few people who could have a chatty pet name ("wife-in-law"??) and chuckling little friendship with the OP a scant five years after a 15-year marriage with young children ended.

I think many people here thought they had a good marriage, were willing to work on any problems, had strong feelings for their spouse, were stunned and hurt by the betrayal, etc. That may not have been the case for lirekal.

In the former situation, I think a middle ground between hatred and delightful friendship is something to aim for -- polite chilliness perhaps. I don't think any BSs should feel guilty for not having the kind of relationship with their exes and new spouses that lirekal apparently has, especially in such a relatively short time after the marriage ended.

Hoopsie, I agree that it is very rare to be cozy with the OP. And that might be a little extreme to the norm. BUT, if it is possible in any way, to be civil and get along, that is the best way to go for the sake of the children. Afterall, there will be MANY functions that everyone will be involved in. And this will teach the children that you don't have to hate, in order to disagree with something or someone.

And I think it was very rude of Nellie2 to insult Bellemere's parents, just because she has adjusted well to her situation and was able to cope and function after her parents divorced. It's as though Nellie is disgusted by the fact that people are getting along fine. I see this as bitterness at its worst.

Even Marriagebuilders was aware that a "Divorce" support board would be needed, for those whose marriages did not work, for some reason or another, can come together and support one another.

Just my take.