Also, I've gotten legal counsel. It doesn't matter who moves out in this state. I sat down with the lawyer a few weeks after D-day, to help figure things out!

We're text Ming back and forth right now, I'm using reverse babble!

"I hear you believe it is deceitful of me to check your cell activity, is that correct?"

Leave it. Do not fall for his stuff...it's his. Leave it there, Rin.

Stop texting at all. You believe what you believe...that marriage is between two parties...whenever a spouse brings in a third party, that's adultery...whether they are sleeping together or not.

You believe that contact continues the affair. You are his wife. He is your husband. There is no privacy in marriage...cannot be deceitful to check on the veracity of your marital partner. You are a union...you share all marital debt and assets...being private is different than having privacy...

When you tell your spouse you're going to the restroom and will be alone...that's O&H; being private is when you do something alone...texting OP is not doing a darn thing alone, now, is it? OP nullifies privacy.

When you do not tell your BW that you are contacting OP, that's being deceitful...lying by omission, continuing your affair.

This is for you, Rin...not for him. Stop talking to him except in listen and repeat...you want to hurt back...I can see it...and entitlement is nothing in marriage...if you thought you got guarantees with your vows, please rethink that...

You got voluntary participation...and he is voluntarily not participating in your marriage.

No deserving or entitled to check on what is private...it is because it is NOT private...understand?

LA

It matters who moves out in your MARRIAGE...can you get an order to make him move out?

LA

I'll check on that, and yes, ma'am I got it. Thanks for the clarification.

Believe me, I'm not faling for all that Sh*t he talking! I've learned to much! That stuff is not mine, it's all "fog" talk!

Thanks for explaining the difference, I wasn't clear on that! So, is it your opinion that I need to do Plan B or did I hear you say Plan A, listen and repeat, listen and repeat?

Up to you, Rin...I lived with constant contact for three months...it was ******...none afterwards.

I am not telling you what to do...listen and repeat is respectful...period. I threw my H out so fast when she called the house, I didn't even know I was doing it...I kept repeating, "Get out."

"I have nowhere to go."

"Go anyway."

I called him at work the next day and said, "Move out."

He did that night.

My experience isn't going to help you, I don't think. I know that if you choose Plan B, he will have to be out of the house...and I don't advise you going anywhere...that's saying he drove you, when he can't...

What if he moves out, you do Plan B...and if he won't...then you stay in respectful, present and distance mode...separate rooms, rexposure within the family, no date nights, and you proceed with legal separation?

Your choices, Rin...because you know you and you know him...

I would be quiet until I could speak clearly...for myself.

LA

Rinderella,

In a D it may not matter.

In a custody hearing it will matter!!

For many reasons. If you leave the kids as well it could be considered abandonment. If you agree to leave the home the court likes the kids lives to stay as normal as possible. IE staying in the same house they are accustomed to.

Do not leave and go three hours away unless your kids are going with you.

For now stop any and all conversations with him unless you are face to face.

You are playing into the control game he is playing with you. Turn off your cell phone.

If you need one more text say. I will only discuss this with you in person.

Go do something for yourself away from your home so he cannot contact you there as well to play his game.

All you can do right now is to not get caught up in the negative distructive behaviour.

I'm choking in hear. Oh, that's the smoke screen our WH's send up. Wow, it's thick! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> You can reverse babble and see where that gets you.

Yknow, when he says,"whatever u want, however, whenever, I give up, ur not going to be happy until it's all ur way, so here it is."

You can say, 'really, great let's do that, my way, cool' very levelly and seriously. Or, " you say the nicest things, your support is incredible" (not sarcastically, just stated like a sentence from a boring book).

Or tell him how his actions affect you, that every call takes a piece of you and children and destroys it. Not LB, but being honest, cold, hard truth. Every time you are deceitful, it takes a bit of your integrity and destroys it. Every lie is like a blade slashing your skin, and the wounds remain open as long as this continues.

You have to figure out what will work for you, not him. Work on YOUR plan. I'll be on the lookout; any headway you make will be good for you. I'll be on the lookout

temp

Oh, wow ... what a development.

Wish I had some advice for you. All I can really say is hang in there and use your head and all the things you've been learning.

Thinking about you!

-AmI

NC -

Ouch. I'm sorry this is happening to you. Unfortunately, it's an all too common theme around here.

No Contact is something that only the WS can do, and only when they want it. The BS can help, but the desire must be there on the part of the WS.

Like many others here, I've had to deal with repeated contact. When MP returned right before New Year's, one of the things she had agreed to was NC....it took 6 months for that to happen (3 months to get the letter, which OM returned unopened and unread). I'm still not 100% positive that it's in place, but more things point to it being so than don't.

You know your H better than anyone here, and you know yourself better than anyone here. You are in the best position to decide what you need to do, to protect you and your kids.

From the stories I've read here, NC is seldom established in one move. It's usually a progression. Painful for the BS, but seems unavoidable. The question I would ask (indeed, the question I asked myself) is "Am I willing to wait for my WS to insitute NC, and how long am I willing ot wait for it?"

You know what you want. Hold out for it. You do not want to be party to a third person in your marriage, nor part of a love triangle. Perfectly understandable. Your WH has to make a choice - you or the OW. Only he can make that choice.

Be careful of phrasing your boundaries like an ultimatum. Ulitmatums are a sure way for me to get MP to do exactly what I don't want her to do - your H may be the same way.

For example, you could tell WH that he needs to choose either you or OW - he can't have both. He might view that as an ultimatum (or might not). A better way (from a boundary perspective) might be "If you are unable or unwilling to make a choice between me and OW, then I will remove myself and our family as an option."

Not quite as ultimatum sounding (to me at least), but still gets the point across. Note that I'm not advising taking the kids away from him and preventing him from seeing them. But if he chooses OW (or doesn't choose you), then the family does not exist any longer.

I don't know that I'd go straight to Plan B at this point. Plan B is usually used after a solid Plan A has been in place. You're doing a great Plan A, but it's been about 2 months? Harley usually recommends 3 months for women, 6 months for men. It is up to the individual to decide. If you feel you're losing your love for him, then Plan B might be called for.

If you go for Plan B and he won't leave, and you can't get him to leave through legal means, I would consider taking you and the kids to go stay with someone (family or friends). not_so_u_neak (I know I'm spelling her name wrong) did that - left a note at home for her WH, but didn't say where they went. Did wonders to bring him to his senses, though there was a relapse (which was quickly fixed when she busted him again and threatened to leave again). Look up her "Some Things Can Make It Through the Fog" thread.

If you want some insights in how to deal with ongoing contact (even of an intermittent variety), you might look for ForeverHers - he went through 4 years of gradually decreasing contact, and this was after finding out his wife had been in a LTA of 6 years.

Lots of ramblings in my post, and I'm hardly one to give advice, but hopefully there's something of value in it for you.

Hang in there. Affairs strike me as a 7-headed Hydra...it takes time and effort to kill all 7 heads.

Post as often as you want - people here will support you and be her for you.

Thank all of you SSOOOO much! I guess the shock has wore of because I feel like a good cry now! the pain is back but I know what I need to do, it's just getting the courage to do it! I could have the biggest, hardest cry right now! I know I was doing a great plan A, I'm proud of my efforts, even given the results!

I guess the "infidity diet" is back. I ordered two tacos, and could only eat one! I stopped answering the TMs before lunch.

Temp-I was reverse babbling and he would say "I know"! So, I don't think that's going to work. I would agree with him and he would just agree back. Like the last one: "Whatever bet the first thing u did was look for her #, not how much the bill was." I wrote back "You're right that's the only thing I was looking for!" he replied "I know!" that's when I thought, well, that's not working!

HL- I wouldn't dare leave the kids with him! Not on my life! I plan on going get my nails done this afternoon, the kids are spending the night at the sitter's. This was arranged before I found out. So, I'm still looking for a place to sleep for the night, and then, I can pick the kids up after work and leave out of town. Or depends on how I feel this afternoon, the spare room is nice, a little hot, but nice. At least, I can lock the door. I really don't want to be in that house tonight. I don't want to hear all of his Sh*t!

When I spoke with the lawyer, he said that since I'm the primary care giver that the kids would go to me regardless. H would have to prove my unfit, and there's no chance in HE)), he can do that. I know how much child support I would get, and how things would go. I still have all the papers that the lawyer gave me, visitation plan, monthly expenses, child support. I have my journal, plus I have Mbers for records.

I sure could use a shoulder to cry on and a great big hug. I called a friend, and another one of his co-workers. I don't think talking to MIL will do any good, the last time she said that we had to work it out! Of course, my co-workers know, and I could call more of our friends but I'm exhausted right now!

AmI- you checking in is the best, all I ask is for your prayers! I can tell you this learning to own my own has been a dream come true. I don't feel trapped in his feelings, thoughts, etc.


I think the only thing I can do right now is not talk to him, create a distance, make him miss us. Maybe the weekend will be enough, he will be working all weekend!

Good I am glad you have your ducks in a row at least legally.

That unknown can sometimes lead to feeling helpless.

I am also glad that the kids are insulated right now since they are going to be at the sitters.

When you get your nails done get the french tips those are cool.

I like everyones advice to you but most importantly keep your head up.

Broken - you did an awesome job of relying your thoughts! I'm constantly amazed at the insight that everyone has. I really don't want to go to plan B yet.

Okay, I have to run to the bank for the company. I'll post back soon!

I feel very overwhemled. I'm so glad that he has tried to C me again. I've got enough to process right now!

Broken-


I'm very glad you gave me those stats., it's helpful in my decision. It's amazing how you can still love someone after so much pain has been inflicted, but I don't love the man that I see right now. I love the man that was once my H. I may have to face the fact one day that I will never have him back.

Last night, he took the book "I Cherish You.." off the kitchen counter and brought it into the living room. I thought that was a good sign.

Should I let him come up with his own letter, or should I help him with the NC letter? Who usually does that? Of course, it's one of my boundaries, that I will not give into, and I will not demand that he do it. I thought about suggesting that he does his own research on Mbers, to find out what the content needs to be. That may be wishful thinking on my part! LOL

I can't even figure out what I need to do for me tonight. I want to go home but at the same I don't want to deal with the lies, the attitude, the PA games, etc.

I need to get some sleep, I feel so fuzzy!

Hey, did anyone check out the MB photo album? I'm so pretty!You can also get a image of WH too with the new bike! You know, we all love comments about ourselves! LOL
Funny, I can joke right now! That's a good sign! Last D-day, I felt like doing something really bad to myself, but now this time!

Funny, I talked to my M and SD this morning too. They called me! Just to check in! Mom's a nurse, so I was telling her I can't sleep and she went straight to "there's something bothering you!" Everything okay, so without going into detail, I mention what was going on! She said to call anytime, and she knew I could handle it because I was strong like her. SHe shocked me when she said that!!! I use to think that her sticking it out with me SD was a sign of weakness, but not so anymore!

Look at ME I'm growing up! LOL Okay, back to work for a little while. Thank you all for the support and for listening today.

Rinderella -



The above was taken from Dorry's Recovery Guide For Wayward Wives (I edited it since in this case it's a Wayward Husband).

He needs to write it. You need to approve it. And then you should be the one to send it.

He also needs to agree to complete transparency and honesty, and to be 100% accountable for his time. This is often the sticking point for WS'. He needs to understand if he truly wants his marriage and family, he is going to be under a microscope for a while. It's a consequence of his choice to have an affair, and he made it worse by renewing (or maintaining) contact.

You can find some sample NC letters here.

Just remember as LA (I think) said. Your H is not a bad person, he's made a bad choice. Your job, if you want to save your marriage, which you do, is to continue Plan A and be a lighthouse for him, to show him the way back to you and your kids.

Rinderella,


I am so sorry! I am here for you if you need anything. This is not listed on my profile so it is not like it is common knowledge, but Between D-day and 6/6/06 the last NC, we had numerous NC's attempted. I did not find MB until end of May. This is when I found the affair portion of the website, printed it and asked my WH to read it. Even though he was still in contact with the OW it opened up his eyes to the reality of "Special Love" he thought he had found. After he read it things slowly started turning around. 30 + days after true NC has been established, fog, withdrawl and all the hard facts have come out. He is doing better day by day.

Is there anyway you can convince him to go on the boards?

Keep your chin up! You are strong and willfull woman. You will know what is the right thing to do.

You have a lot of friends here!!

Thanks for the information, I'm sure it's in my SAA book, but when he came by the office this morning to steal my laptop he said I didn't need it.

******, he went straight into the car and took it. It was my X-mas present, and I followed him because my bag had all of my bills, passwords, and books in it. He gave my everything out of it except SAA and almost didn't give me my cell phone charger. I just kept repeating, I need it that why! He tried to close the truck door on me! Or should I say he was trying to close the truck door when I got in the way to get him to give me my things.

I don't understand why he didn't want me to have it?!?! LOL

Rinderella -


Perhaps he felt taking it away from you would serve to unnerve you. Or maybe he actually might read it. Who knows?

He's angry because he's been caught, and he knows he's in the wrong. He's slowly being forced to face the actions he's taken, and the consequences of those actions.

It's often said around here - Your marriage can survive anger; it can't survive infedility.

Just let it roll of your back like a water off a duck. He has no right to be angry, and he knows it. You can't control him, but you can control how you react (or don't) to him.


Yes, I did. I've thought about sending in a picture of me, but I'm not sure I'd want somebody identifying me on the off-chance they were perusing the album (ok, so I have a small paranoid streak in me..don't know why). Then again, it might send people running away from their computers screaming in horror <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But I agree with what others said - your husband is nuts to risk losing you. The personality in your picture matched what I sense from your posts - very energetic, bubbly and out-going. Hopefully your WH will wake up and see what he stands to lose in you and the kids.

7142- Thank you for the encouragement. He's a stubborn mule sometimes. He even calls himself an @sshole. I never say a word when he does it, that he's thought not mine! I don't think there's anything he will read, but he had a tendency to surprise me! I appreicate you letting me know that you guys had several attetmps at NC also.

The main thing I have to remember today is to keep a level head and not LB. I have to say I'm more worried about my actions then his! Surprise! (That a girl! Go RIN!)

It makes me feel good that you find me strong and willfull. I feel weak right now, tired, hungry, and mental exhausted.

Rinderella,

I hope your evening did not break out into world war III. We all get nuts once in a while and have things happen. Heck, go to my thread and read what happened to us tonight. It is some crazy stuff.

Anyone that goes through this is willful and strong. It took me a long time to realize that about myself. Without those things how can you continue on and still remain the "magical mom"!! You do need to try and eat and keep up your strength.

If you need anything just let me know.

7142

Ladies and Gentlemen, I have successful made it through the night, I feel a stronger woman! (Like LA says: Kudos to me!) I came home from getting my nails done, and I didn't speak. I looked for my laptop and asked where it was. I was told that it was picked up and when asked why, I got no response. I used one of the others to check in here but didn't have time to post, just read any replies. I felt that would give me the courage I needed to handle whatever was coming next.

I sat on the sofa, and began reading HNHN. H appears visualibilty angry, would ask questions from me only to tell me I was wrong. It was the first day I had ever noticed that he did that. When not asked questions, I tried hard to listen and repeat. It one instance I had to repeat what I hear three times, b/c I heard it wrong.

I asked for NC, and NC letter. He said "I'm not writing a f***ing letter." At that point, I realized we were not going to get anywhere and picked up my purse, grabbed HNHN, and walked out the door. H followed, asked only if I was coming back, I said no. Yhen, after closing the door, and reopening it, I said that I might as well come pack my sh*t or he could do it for me, I replied that we his choice, and drove off.

I went to a friend's and had full intentions of staying the night. I decided to try and let him cool off before anything else was done. I went to sleep about 9 and was woken up by my phone, H still sounds angry, and was demanding that I come home. I refused, I didn't think I was be safe, I felt we would have argued all night, and I didn't have the energy.

He had been driving around to all of our friends, and my relatives looking for me and wasn't going to quit until he found me. I was willing to let him do it, even though he said that he would be really angry if he found me. I felt like he just kept threating me, he would ask me to come home and I would say no. I started crying at one point, and I can't remember what all I said but his tone had changed and that made me feel better. Then, he said that if I came home, even if I was in the spare room was better then his driving around all night. At one point, he said that he would do this all night, then, go to work tomorrow, and if he got hurt it would be on my conscious. I said no it wouldn't because I wasn't the one who chose to drive all night.

I agreed to come home if I got to sleep in the spare room, and IF he would leave me alone. He agreed. We didn't say a word to each other, and when I felt like I was safe (meaning I needed to find out where his disposition was) I went to bed.

I got up twice during the night, and at @5, I woke up to him standing in the door to my room. I said "what?" He replied that he was just seeing if I was sleeping! (OKAY!)
Anyway, I got up and went to the living room, he stole my phone to find out where I was last night, said he would have eventually made it there, and that I could bring home all my little notebooks today for him to look at. I asked what notebooks, anyway, I had referred to the notes that I took down on the phone calls I have made the night before. I ran down the driveway, and handed him the scribbled on piece of paper, and ran back into the house after saying that these were the notes I was referring to.

He immediately called and said TY, He wanted to know why I had called his friends yesterday, and why I was bad mouthing him. I said that I wasn't that I reiterated that I love him very much, and wanted my M to work! I explained that I exposed because of SAA, and he wanted to know if my leaving yesterday was in the book also. I say no, that was my decision, that I wasn't going to stay and be told that I was wrong for thinking and feeling what I did. He said that if I wanted him to read the book he would read the book. I said I didn't want him to read the book, I was just stating where I got my information on exposer, and I did what I thought I had to do, that Thousands of M had been saved.

H started to justified that the book was just a survey of a certain number of people...blah blah blah...but he would read it and if he liked what he read he would read more.

Somewhere during the conversation, I said that I loved him very deeply, but I would not be made to feel like I was a doormat. I thought he was a good father, etc. and that I had felt more love for him recently then I had in years, and when I saw the contact what little trust I had left.

He said to try to have a good day, I said I will because today is a new day! I explaine that I was thinking about going out of town and gave him two of my opposion, he said that was fine that he would be working all weekend anyway.

He's really feeling the consequences right now. Last night, he kept trying to ask what proof did I have. I had to explain "like you said to me once, not everything is about sex." I guess he was thinking when I say A, I meant sex, no! I felt there was still an EA, if contact was still being made!

I feel really great about how I handled things, and my chosse of words. Last night, I even have to start over, because I didn't like my tone, so I began again. I extremely proud of myself, and that's what counts the most!

I'll check in later! Have a wonderfully, blessed day! And thanks, Broken, 7142, HL, LA, AMI, TEMP, CarenMC, and anyone else I may have missing. You are all dear to my heart for all the support you give! I have my own little group of ANgels on my side!

Now, LET"S PARTY! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />