Hi, I was thinking and this is the only place I feel I didn't speak correctly:


I would love to hear if I overlooked anything. I can tell you that the conversation H and I had before I left was not good. I was trying my best not to be pulled in, but the conversation was all about how I did this. I asked for NC, he asked me not to check his cell phone records. H saw it as one in the same. That's the reason why I left, I felt nothing was going to be accomplished.

He is still not living in reality. It is easier to put blame than take responsibility for your actions. So now of course everything is your fault.

You have every right to check anything you want. Just by him telling you not to check is phone records says a lot.

You mentioned something about him wanting to read your book. Let him read surving an affair. Let him try to pick it apart! I truly think that by the time he is half way through it, his tune will change a little. Radical Honesty baby! You can accomplish that without Love Busters. It is hard to do but it can be done.

I am in a living ****** myself. OW is trying to make contact and I even had the "pleasure" of talking to her last night. The whole situation sucks!

Do your best not to yell or loose it. You are doing well!

7142

7142-I agree that his not living in reality, it's all "fog" talk! As a matter of fact, I am intending to go out of town this weekend. he'll be working, but I think he needs that time to himself. Who knows, he has SAA in his truck now, he just might pick it up. Being PA, I don't foresee it, but one can always hope. I also agree that it would be the best thing for him, if he were to do it.

He seems to think that I want him to "be educated", to do research, or study, SAA and MBers. I repeated several times that I'm not asking him to do any of that, but if he chose to understand me, there are 26 pgs. here to do so! I don't mind him reading anything here. I have nothing to hide!

I'm sorry that you are having a difficult time with OW. I'll have to read your post today!

I think HL had mentioned one time or Broken, I'm not sure, it takes 21 days to break a bad habit. I think I done yelling, and I'm afraid to go back to it. I think that's a healthy fear to have and to keep myself in check. I know if I do start again, I need to put on the breaks and examine why I'm doing it. It's a hard lesson to learn and I wish that I would have learned that yrs. ago!

Rin,
Please stand firm with what you have asked of him. Now is his time to learn and make decisions. It is not always a bad thing to separate yourself from a situation that you feel is not working. You can regroup and pick your way. I would suggest refraining from long arguments. It sounds like he's got you repeating the same things over and over. Say them once, calmly and do not repeat yourself. Your answers to his questions are how you feel, and shouldn't be overlooked. You are spending your time repeating what he is saying, so that he knows you are listening. Is he doing the same?

If he wants to read, let him read, and when he wants to discuss things rationally, good. If he wants to take the book and tell you why it is wrong -- disagree and walk away. You sound like you are holding up well, you sound like you are becoming more clear and defining your needs very concisely; it's time for him to do the same. Boundaries must be followed to trust. No if's and's or booties! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good morning Temp! I hope that you are well today! I am doing GREAT! Still need to get some sleep, but otherwise, doing well1

Unfortunately, no, H is not listening and repeating at least not all of the time. It truely depends on if he's in PA mode or not! He thinks when I say that I don't feel safe, that I mean physical. He doesn't see that safe can be emotionally. I feel he's being abusive when he discredits my feelings, and thoughts, he says he isn't. He sees my boundaries as ultimatims, that I'm trying to control him, or win the game. He doesn't understand that if he loses, I lose in return. (Like LA said)

He talked for 45 mins, before I decided to leave. I was not going to be cussed at, and have him try to make me feel guilty or ashamed of my actions. I'm not any of those and I won't be down the road either. I understand what you are saying about repeating myself, I will try to make a conscious effort not to do that in future conversation. I call they conversation, because I refuse to argue. I feel arguing is an unhealthy expression of anger which leads to comments or actions/reactions meant to inflict pain or hurt. I wonder if there a difference between heated discussion?

Temp- you're wonderful, thank you for the compliment about holding up, I was indeed a nervous wreck. Repeating in my head what I wanted to say, trying to choose the right words for me was not an easy task.

LA- You deserve a lot of credit for mentoring me in owning.

Rin,

Take the credit for owning...because all I did was share...and you acted...you chose your new belief...this is honest and true...and you inspire me.

What's to argue? This is in reply to your conversation/discussion/heated discussion/argument thingie...

His opinions are his...listen and repeat...he no longer can guilt you...only inform you. You decided that. For you.

Your opinions are yours...what's to argue?

Stop yourself from a hair further than that for now...you aren't trying resolve something here...rather, I believe you are being resolute about your boundaries and an important marital boundary.

New place to be, Rin...what's to argue?

((((Rin)))))

LA

Wow! What a night you had.
I'm very impressed that you didn't let it get you down today -- you sure 'sound' good this morning.

I think you did a great job. Even the doormat comment was fine, letting him know he doesn't have the power to do that to you.

I don't quite get the whole stealing your computer from work thing, and then still hiding it from you last night ... doesn't your employer have a problem with that? What does he hope to gain from taking it away from you? That piece has me confused.

But I'm glad you're doing alright today. I hope you have a really great, relaxing, fun weekend with your kids.

-AmI

LA- I am so enlighted when I talk to you!

Definition of argue:1)To put forth reasons for or against something.2)To maintain in arguement;contend. 30To dispute; quarrel 4)To persuade or influence, as by presenting reasons.

If we are talking about a person's feeling and thoughts in this regard, then there is nothing to argue about, only to own our own!


So...In actuality I'm being firm or determined to enforce my boundaries?

I hate sounding clueless, but how does this not come off as something other then itself?

LMAO...Believe me I'm taking the credit for that one...LOL...I think the use of the word share is down playing the role you are playing. I'm going to call you Humble LA, from now on. The investment that I chose to make in myself was well worth the time and effort!

AmI- Thanks, I am good today. I woke up with Pep's song on my mine, 'Yestersay,' and I have a new policy since my awakening. Let yesterday be yesterday and today be today. In essesence, I try not to let yesterday effect today, sometimes something may carry over (like H called me a B**ch yesterday) but I will not damage myself my holding on to resentment.

The laptop was a x-mas present from H, he was to my knowledge withholding it from me as some sort of punishment. I said that was fine, until I get it back none of your bills will be paid! (I have a cashflow or say a budget with our income and financial obigiations set up on it.) I don't know if stating that fact helped but after I left, he texted me saying it was on the sofa and that this was BullS...!

I'm contemplating staying home this weekend. H has to work Sat. and Sun. from 6am to 7pm. I haven't had much sleep in the past 72 hours; I would hate to get on the hwy and end up doing something stupid. It's bad enough my head aches. The whole idea of getting away for the weekend was to give H time to think and maybe read, if he chose too. I think that space will him some good;however, this time he won't spend all night looking for me! LOL

Any suggestions or thoughts on that?

If it was me I would stay home and get some sleep. That is most important if you can. Second, grab yourself some good movies, make some popcorn and be as nice as nice can be. Make the weekend about you! Take a bath, make yourself look even cuter than you already are and maintain in a good mood. Heck, go to a kickboxing class. By the way, that is so much fun not to mention tention release. Do not pay any attention to him. If he chooses to talk to you, answer him and continue on doing what you want to do.

Have a good weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

7142-you are God Sent! Do you remember (On Gilmore girls) Willy Wonka night? Or at least that's what I call it, rent movies and do a junk food supper! The kids look it, it's the only night, mom doesn't require the kids to eat healthy stuff! I love Willy Wonka night, rent kid movies, and laugh with them. I haven't done that in a long time!

Oh, the "NEIGHBORS" invited the boys to a B-day party tomorrow, I don't want to go but I would hate for the kids to miss it just because their MOM's holding a grudge. H still talks to them, but I feel I can't until I let go of this.

HA, that sounds like lunch today! He talked and talked like last night never happened. Anyone else think that's PA behavior?

What would be different from the past is the fact that I wouldn't be angry. I use to do it to get back at him, now, it would be that I don't have anything to say to him.

Or I can put up my kickbag H was suppose to do six months ago! I wanted it to releive some pent up aggression. You know that always makes you feel good, like you said! That would be a bad decision, I could still stay in the spare room. He)), I might ask him to move to the Spare room! I like my bed more! LOL

Oh, ok.... for some reason I thought he took your WORK computer. I was confused. I still think it's kind of strange that he'd make such a big scene of taking it. And I'm finding the BS comment amusing ... I would have been tempted to respond "I agree, I think that hiding my computer from me IS BS...."

As far as getting away this weekend ... I'm not sure. I'm kind of thinking it would be good to get away from there for a couple of days, but that's probably not very Plan A. 7's idea sounds much more in line with Plan A.

Do you think that getting away from the house would help settle down the arguing? Or do you think the fact that he will be working so much will be enough to do that? Maybe you can be home during the day (sleep in, take naps, all that decadent stuff) and then have fun plans away from the house with the kids in the evenings. Let him know where you are so he can join you (or at least isn't hunting for you), but don't plan on him going.

Either way -- keep your chin up. You're doing a great job!

-AmI

Then have a Willy Wonka night!!! Why not? I am sure the kids would love it!! Heck, I would love that. I have not watched much of TV in a while but Gilmore use to be one of my favs.

Now, is there anything beside going on the motorcycle that you two enjoy doing together without the kids?

Reason I am asking is Mark and I went away together just for 24 hours and had a really good time. We did discuss the "A" guite a bit but reconnected also. This was early into his NC and he was still in the fog very heavily. He is not in the clear yet but it has gotten better. Even with last nights events. I put on my listening ears and really listened to my WH. He talked about a lot of things and this is when we started figuring out when we started drifting a part and what happened to us. Some of the stuff was hard to hear, it was all worth it.

We had forgotten how to be husband and wife and not just mom and dad.

Would that be possible for you two to go somewhere together FUN without Lb's?

Keep your chin up!!

7142

I think it's funny too, the comments, the "hunting", and all the extra energy that he put himself through. I guess that's a great example of reacting, instead of acting. If he left, I would have sat my buttocks on the sofa, or decided to go to a movie or something. I wouldn't have done the pitty me syndrome. Look what you did to me!

I'm the type that would have gone to the store, bought new locks, and went home to change them myself!

Anyway, Thanks for the post!

Oh, does anyone remember when OW mysteriously got BF's phone number? Well, H called OW to find out how she got it! Yeah, That was nice!

Well, OW denied the whole thing, and the three TMs I found that started this whole thing was H trying to contact her. He says she never replied!

I told him, well she's creating a pattern of denial! I wanted so bad to say, first she lied about sleeping with you, and now, she lying about contacting your BF to get with him! Oh, That's funny! Fantastyland is loads of fun! RMFAO

I hope I'm not being to bad. I had to share that one, I just found that info out, maybe thirty minutes ago! LOL

Well, things are quiet tonight at our home. H was in a good mood. H stopped by the house on the way to bring a co-worker home. It made me very happy that he willingly stopped by the house to let me know where he was going.
H acting very loving, like nothing's wrong,, just nice as day. He can be very charming when he wants to be.

LA-I was wondering what you or anyone else thought about OW lying to H aboout her calling his BF. I'm in LA withdrawal, I need something deep to think about! LA-I need my fix! You know you said that you really like gifts, that it was your primary language. I often wish/hope that I would get a surprise gift for no reason what so ever. You know a flower once in a while, a card just because, a plant, or a b-day gift, mother's day something. I crave those things. I'm so disappointed when a gift day come by and I get to go pick a gift out for myself or get nothing at all. Well, I got to go H came in and is trying to talk.

Rin,

I'm with you...I'm reading and following. I'm watching you be brave, wrestle yourself, think through...stay aware.

In your question about OW...I hear a hidden request...I hear you saying, "Isn't that right?" when we both know, what you think is valid. You're not crazy...you're taking in your H's truth as your own...or refuting it as if his truth is THE truth...crazymaking. What do I think about an OW lying? Isn't that redundant? Are you really asking why H can't see how manipulative, controlling, deceitful and terrible OW is?

That's what I wanted my WH to see when he was in contact. Even after...took six months afer NC to get to that...even after H saw she wasn't real, was a fantasy...because he had to get to fantasy and then consider as reality, for me. For him, he stopped considering once he got that he was addicted to fantasy...not a person. My fixation on OW made her real, a human, defined...can't you see, can't you recognize, I would urge and push...

Don't walk that way, Rin. OW isn't real. She isn't. I swear...this is about your WH and his choices...and it is frustrating to know and believe that until NC truly happens, he won't get to the fantasy realization...all takes time...the clock is reset...again...how debilitating, frustrating...fear-filled. Think, though...BF talked to WH about OW after her call...that's contact...information...that was the reset...and when WH said he would find out from OW, how she got BF's phone number, if he saw her somewhere, well, that was vague disclosure...

Understand, please, your WH lies to himself...you can't get wayward honestly...your part is to not believe WH...you have that choice. We can be lied to; their part. Believing is our part. Accept you bought in, chose to believe...he didn't make you...you needed and wanted to believe, still your choice...and know it isn't disrespectful to not believe...his truth remains his. Yours is yours. Some of the anger you are experiencing is coming from being mad at yourself...choosing your part to believe.

Accept you did. Do better. More respectful to yourself and to WH to not believe, for now. I didn't allow myself to begin believing my DH, and then, in tiny bits, until recently...and I still limit those bits. I hear his truth and choose to not believe, to buy in, to depend...yet. I'm still learning a lot...

My H sympathized with you tonight...said your H hasn't gotten to understanding that he misses the feelings he gave himself with fantasy...he'll get there. It's startling, that realization...resonates, makes sense...and that is the beginning of the end of the fog...clarity.

Will happen, Rin. With or without you...that's his, not yours to press or show.

About gifts...keep going on that...the symbol of gifts...to be validated when it isn't due...to be affirmed, appreciated, when you haven't earned...that surprise gift, of just because you're you...well, that's what you're craving from yourself the most right now.

Give yourself the time to be...not do. Acknowledge to yourself you are lovely, complicated, amazing, wondrous...and smile, as you know you do, broadly, like when you're pleased with a reaction in someone else...and look in the mirror with the smile and know it's for you, for just being.

You.

Without a word spoken or an action taken. You're marvelously made. Celebrate that. Know this. Choose that as your truth. Appreciating you from the inside...

And if what is behind the expected gift (and then disappointment); or your desire for the unexpected gift is different, share with me, please.

That's a gift to me.

LA

Here...I get validation, acceptance, admiration, love, honesty, affirmation, respect, etc.

Here...the place where all of my ENs are being met...I see that my efforts are not fruitless...I see progress, however slow...here I see the changes that I have made...

I did have an expectation, perhaps masked as hope...to one day get all these things at home...from my H...

Small material things are to me a sign of affirmation...it says to me...I put myself aside today...if only for a moment...to think of you before myself...just because I am me...it's a non verbal thank you...a show of appreciate...the thought that counts...

I decided to treat myself today, having messed work last week, due to H's Dad, funds are tight, but I intend to use my weekly cash to go shopping for myself...at least a few tops...I like dressing the new me...it makes me feel wonderful...in the past, I dressed for H, if he didn't like it that affected me, dramaticly...it's for ME now...because I want too.

I'm giving myself permission to validate my own thoughts and feeling...it's my "Good Job" prize...for hard work, all of my efforts...just because I want too.

As far as the Truth...I am wishing it were true...wanting to accept it as my own but at the same time saying to myself I can't believe anything he ssys right now...I can'y make it my own no matter how hard I wish...

Yes, I would like to see H see what I do...I pointed out the pattern...the only way it would be my truth would be if I hear the conversation for myself...to hear her deny it in front of me somehow...I'm not focusing on it...however, i was happy to think that it could be the truth...hoping it were reality...excited to think that reality maybe a step closer than I think!

I know BF was shocked, OW called him at work, in another city...he was wondering how did she get his number when he didn't give it to her...frustrated that she had called him at work, when we don't even know the number to his work...I can understand his need to know...I don't fault him...they had met with a few hours contact and here she is tracking him down like an animal...I find that strange myself, and wonder how, why...I'm glad that he called and thankful...I firmly believe that God has a plan...

H fell asleep in the spare room, go I got my pillow, and came to the couch. This is difficult for me...to not be next to him in the same bed...I am trying hard to make a statement...I will not brush this under a rug...Mulan wrote an amazing post on SMIH's thread, which I intend to show H whom can draw his own conclusions, that was indeed my life...from my stand point H's kissing @ss right now, and as soon as I let my guard down, stepping closer to him only for him to swing with the pendalum in the other direction...

I am trying to change anything in this situationWell, I'm getting sleepy myself. I wanted to write more but I'm closing my eyes trying to type. I can't finish my thought right now...exhausted!

Ok, I believe the act of giving a gift is the selflessness behind it more of than the gift...it's the fact that the person purchasing it took the time, effort, and thought to purchase it, make it, and then feel confortable enought to give it. I believe that the person giving the gift is rewarded at the same time or should be...I know that I'm proud of myself when I've put thought, effort, and energy into it.

H appears upset with me because I slept on the sofa, and not in our bed. I like the sofa, plain and simple! H just left for work. We talked, or really I talked...I said that if he wanted to open up and tell me what he was thinking I would listen. He said why, whenever I say something I'm wrong (to sum up what he said). I said that I'm not trying to punish him, his body language said I was...I explained that I would have in the past, but not anymore...if he left a coke can, I thought he was trying to punish me, and I would do something to try to get back at him...I'm not doing that anymore, it's unhealthy...I pointed out that by making himself a victim is PA behavior...body language and a bad look on his face...I said that I done the same thing it the past...felt like he was saying it's all my fault...i would take things he said personally...hold angry and resentment...take it out on the kids because I couldn't take it out on him...if I see myself starting to yell again, then I'm going to examine myself and determine the problem...if he choose to open up to me, I can not take what he says personal because it's his opinions, feelings, and thoughts, only as information...

I explained that I'm trying to handle things healthier now...I don't want to be happy one day here and one day there...I want to be happy everyday...

He said that he jumped out of the bed this morning, thinking that he was late, I said I wouldn't let that happen, I try my best to take care of him, I have me alarm set, and when I saw that he was up already, I thought good and went back to sleep.

A major point I presented was that I'm trying hard not to read into things, over examine them...what he calls thinking to much...I'm trying to take things for what they are...like he said "it is what it is"...

H left without a word, and drove off fast, and on time! I felt like I did a good job. I tried very hard to stick to me and although I started the conversation with "Why are you condemning me for my choice to sleep on the sofa?" I had to stop later, because I realized what I had done, apologized for my tone, and choice of words, saying I didn't mean it like that.

I'm thinking that I should have gone somewhere's for the weekend. All I've heard is that I'm doing this on purpose because I have to find something to be unhappy about (which he has said sooo many times in the past to me), I heard that my behavior is the reason why he chose to do what he did because I'm always looking for "dirty". (I gathered that if I'm going to accuse him of something then, he might as well be doing it!)

That's all find and dandy, it's his!

So, as far as timeline go, I understand that we star over from BF's call, which would be June 30th, but there was a TM out on June 19, and the last that I knew of was May 29th. His last TM was July 7th. I'm not sure where to start the NC. I can see how the fantasy can try to draw WS back in. So, where would I start this one?

He said that he put OW name back in his cell after I deleted it which was June 24th.

Oh, we did talk about the party today. H asked that I think on it this way "the child didn't do anything, that he thought I should go over and put up a happy front for her." Which is true; however, I don't want to put up a false front, go over, eat their food, etc. I feel that I would be two faced and that's not me. IF I can't be true to myself, then, I can't be true to others. I'm big on being honest, and that would not be honest.

My other option is calling the H, because he's more inclined to take what I say at face value (perhaps a face to face decision would be better) and not read into things. Explain the situation and I'm trying not to hold any resentment, but it's going to take time for me to deal with it. Explain my feeling about the party and ask if the boys can join without me being present because I feel that if I participated with a happy exterior then, I would consider my actions two-faced. I don't things none of the kids should be hurt because of my choices.

I thing this would be a wise decision and since he's the one that confronted H with the information, he's the one I need to talk to. It may go along way to clearing up the matter, and then not! What will be will be!

well, I'm getting sleepy again so I think it's best that I end this here for now!

Okay, gifts as a form of selflessness...we'll get back to that, 'k?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Let's talk neighbors, friends...you made confidantes and feel betrayed.

What I heard was you spilled to them about your ONS and the W told her H who told your H, is that correct?

Lemme know...I'm here.

LA