Focus, Rin...are you saying that you believe you aren't talking about NC and what you need well enough for your WH to understand and comply with?

That's what I'm hearing...no respect. Rin, he gets it. He knows. You've said it before...I want a NC letter, to know where you are, what you're doing while I build trust in you...reports immediately of any contact..visual, audible, psychically...

He knows.

He knows...he's heard...he isn't complying. He doesn't believe. You can't make him believe what you believe. You know that. Stop. Be still. This is temporary. This is now. Do not picture what you will feel if...put what ifs aside...and those if-only's, too...

Two months of withdrawal...can you do that? Two months before you require him...9/5/06...to state what he believes, what he's choosing to do or not do...two months...you frog-leaped past withdrawal with the HD purchase...I think you wanted to save him the mourning...and yourself...doesn't work that way...does it?

We want recommitment...he didn't leave you for her...he's staying...doesn't mean he doesn't know what you want or need...trust yourself to state once...eloquently or not...he gets it, Rin.

Trust yourself more.

There is no fault here...there is you, fearing, anxious...with no control...and hearing rebuff...sarcasm...no cooperation...no validation or acknowledgement.

Those are your words to communicate...and you have all of them inside of you when you stick to "I feel" and "I believe" statements. Simple and true. Breathe more, Rin...stay out of more contact thoughts...stay present.

I don't believe in "when the time came"...we choose our time to express ourselves...to share. We choose..."it" doesn't come.

Sarcasm is abusive. Strong statement...think on it. If you can say, "I hear you being sarcastic. Sarcasm hurts. It twists communication. Are you being sarcastic?"

Rehearse...what you believe. You want comfort and reassurance...is that true? Or do you want protection from pain or fear? Do you want him to lie and say "We'll be fine" when he doesn't know, doesn't believe, feels attacked, guilty...whatever he's believing or feeling? Or do you want his truth?

In my experience, withdrawal has no reassurances or comfort, other than what I gave to myself...no hugs...and this is harder when my expectation to GET to withdrawal was for it to be recommitment...and it wasn't. It was clearing a drug from WH's system.

Let's go to hug...affection...reassurance and comfort...hugs can acknowledge, empathsize, approval, embracing all of you, acceptance, connect, apologize, be of like mind, same wishes; they are a big symbol...can you get to what hugs really represent to you?

In your list...if H can cause your unhappiness, would that mean that he can also be the cause of your happiness?

What you've listed sounds to me what you see you need to recover the marriage...which only begins after withdrawal...why give him the list now? If you were to make a list of what you need to heal from his A...would it be the same or different?

You're more than willing to do your list in return...what if H's list on what he wants for a thriving marriage is different? Would you be more than willing?

I can understand his statement that OW has nothing to offer him...just as he saw OM...making them people, judged accordingly, labeled as non-threats...put aside. Would make me wonder how well I was judged by him...reasonable. Unsafe. Now, if it was OW has nothing to offer because it wasn't about her as a person...and he might mean that...we don't really know yet...then he's really getting the fantasy part...

Pressure...stress...is behind P/A behaviors...because the base is fear...like you read about the pendulum...my way out of that constant reaction to reaction was to get really safe...during contact and withdrawal...to own my power, say I felt fearful...it was mine...I felt angry with his contact and hiding contact...and the anger was mine...the fear was high...the hurt was horrible...and it all was mine. I had asked so much of my H throughout our marriage...to fill me up, be my best friend, protector (even from himself), to comfort, reassure, please, delight, romance, not be angry or disappointed, not be hurt or resentful...I could take three months and not ask for a darn thing. That was me and my choice. Later, I asked for daily calls, communication exercises, RC time, reading emails and books...some he chose to do and others, he didn't. Each step of the way, I chose, also...and by putting myself first, I chose not to resent within myself, doubt, jump into the future (okay, not too much), dwell in the past...and stay aware...like an opthamologist...better? worse? Better? Worse? According to my perception, my view...not THE truth...and I liked it...better and better...until 11 months after NC, he was willing to protect me fully, without resent or P/A; no fear behind it--full caring. 11 months after getting his A was a fantasy...8 months after admitting he did love me but didn't want to tell me because I didn't deserve it (high truth); and counseling, weekly...for over a year, at that point.

You can get there, Rin...see why I urge self-focus? You have no control...you never did or will...when my DH CHOSE to say, "The risk isn't worth it to me...I want to protect you," that was worth everything to me. Still is...because I know he had to get to where he had to get...no help from me, no guidance...just sharing...and he got there. Is still there, 8 months later...

How are you with looking at two years to recover?

LA

Before I address your post, LA. I would like to talk about my lunch with DH. I was researching withdrawal, in refer to N. I did look up a lot of words this morning, and at lunch, I was waiting on DH to bring the food. I re-read my list and wrote a few things down; DH walked up and I picked it up. He ask, I told him what it was and handed him the paper with the definitions, and info on withdrawal. After having read it and a few moments of silents, I asked where he stood with withdrawal. DH said that he has been through that a while back. I asked if he was having the same feelings with the renewed C; he said "no." I left it at that!

I asked if he ever felt the need to be comforted and what that meant to him; he replied "sometimes" and "everything would be okay and a hug." I said so reassurance, he said yes. I thought that was great and told him that I thought the same exact thing. We talked about self-comfort, which of course, I realized what I asked as soon as I read your question. I get that, I know that answer! Duh on my part!

Okay, now for the meat and potatoes...LOL

When you say this I don't think I know what this is?!?!


I need to practice more...I know this...you're right...when I get anxious I focus on "what's yet to come." I understand that I need to live for today and not tomorrow. Living for the future days can be as bad as living for those passed.



Yes, I do want to be comforted and I want reassurance, but I can wait if that's what has to happen. Even with he statement at lunch about being in withdrawal awhile back and that he does not have those feelings now; he could be in self-denial. Who am I to know, I just thought there were some signs. It would be easier for me if I knew "where he's at in this process." Same goes with everything else on that list, is I have to wait, I can wait, but I don't know where I am!

oh, So that's why I focus on myself...to get through the rough patch...

I titled it correctly, I'm just not there yet, I guess...


I'm going to say that with the conversation at lunch and the conversation last night that DH is headed in that direction.



yeah, i got that earlier...in this post! I'm going to go mourne for myself just a little, then, I'm going to brush myself off and get back into the rodeo. I'm going to take a break!

Rin -

Been busy (and will be for the next several weeks), but I do follow your thread (and a few others).

I can totally understand the problem with getting a sitter to watch the kids. Our sitters keep graduating high school or getting jobs. It's very frustrating. If MP & I were anywhere near you and your husband, I'd offer babysitting swaps just so we all could get time together to work on our marriages (independently, I mean). It's really tough to work on a marriage (even a good one) when you can't get time together without the kids hanging on.

Perhaps you could see if there are some couples in your church in the same predicament that would be willing to set up a baby-sitting co-op? We've tried, with very limited success.

Today you wrote something that caught my attention:


I did that last night - the withdrawing thing. I guess my little kid keeps throwing tantrums or something. I don't know. You're right on the money with what you wrote....but man, it's hard.

Keep posting. Even when I don't have anythign to say, I tend to learn things from watching you and LA interact <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Rin,

Refresh my memory, did you both fill out the Emotional Needs questionnaire? You can print just that off the website. Based of the above post it got me wondering. Even if you H does not want to read the books or go on the website you could sell him on the questionnaire. I mean he would benefit greatly from it and maybe that is how you present it. Tell him you then will know what his top 5 emotional needs are and he will know yours. Rin, you gotta do this. Sounds like now might be the right time. My husband and I did it together. We went over each page together. It was very productive and we both learned a lot.

Ya need to find someone to watch the boys! This is so important! You need to go and have fun together not just sit around and think about this stuff 24 hours a day. I know where you live is not cheap but there has to be something you two can do. There have been some good suggestions in regards to that also.

Your doing great Rin! Focus on getting that done if you have not and review it as much as possible.

7142

Broken- thanks for the advice. I'll do my best to keep sharing. I'm glad that you are learning some new things...remember to take time for yourself! Keep your head up!

7142-I did mine, he didn't, hasn't, whatever! Tomorrow night they will be sleeping at the sitter, so we'll have the whole night. I think he's planning for us to go riding the bike with a friend of his to bike night! Thank you for your thoughtfulness! You are blessed that your H did that with you! Good Job!

Hey, Rin.

No advice from me, I've been in the discouraged and wondering camp myself quite a bit recently. So I'm just hanging in there with you. Your lunch conversation with your DH did sound pretty encouraging, though!

On a side note ... I'm pretty sure that Mr.W is the FBS, and Mrs.W is the FWS -- just FYI in case you call out to FWS's in your title or anything. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there!

-AmI.

Thanks AmI. You have a great night!

I just tried to lay down to get rid of this pounding headache but it didn't work!

Pounding headache...ibruprofen works for me...

Guess I won't add to the pounding.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

"Yes, I do want to be comforted and I want reassurance, but I can wait if that's what has to happen."

Would you consider comforting and reassuring yourself? Could that be part of posting and reading here for you?

"Even with he statement at lunch about being in withdrawal awhile back and that he does not have those feelings now; he could be in self-denial. Who am I to know, I just thought there were some signs. It would be easier for me if I knew "where he's at in this process." "

This would take working on communication...listen and repeat...only...to begin with...

"Same goes with everything else on that list, is I have to wait, I can wait, but I don't know where I am!"

You are here. ()<--

That help?

You are right here, right now...you're being advised to do a lot of stuff...do the RC stuff first. Have fun, relax...rejuvenate yourself...celebrate who you are...and see H in the light of your chosen companion...even if only for a few hours at a time.

Eliminate your expectations of how RC should go, how you should feel...what he should feel or see...toss those shoulds to the wind...and practice being.

You've got great advisors...who care. Does that reassure you? Give you comfort right now?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

Thanks, LA, I'm going to chill out for a while. I need a break from all the stress. I was very tired, overwhelmed, and definitily not focused on me, with a ponding headache, on the way home. I did get up from my nap and take some ibruprofen (Rapid Relief). LOL

H got his book that Pep recommented today, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintanence," he started reading it right after! I'm still reading "You can be emotional free," it's slow reading only because I've has so many other things to focus on recently.

Today was really rough at work, and just all around. At four the boss come to me to prepare a HUGE bid and it had to be out by Five! Not to mention, I had three other things that HAD to be done by five! I did it, I always do, with twenty minutes to spare. I'm good at running against the clock. You need something done in a hurry, I'm the one that gets called. Explain much about me? I'm a hard-worker and will do anything to get the job done right and on time, even if I had to do it myself! I'm good at it, proud of it, and love being dependable. That's me, and that's enough for today. I'm vegging a little more tonight!

Checked Cell record, Contact @5.22am, 7/11, one minute! Looks like outgoing!

Take a minute, Rin.

I have been right where you are, head exploding, boulders in my stomach and heart racing over the latest revelation.

This is no place to act from!

Take a minute ... hour ... day ... whatever to get your body and mind back before you do anything.

Remember, you confronted him about contact on 7/13 -- after the call that you just found out about. AND, you've made some progress since then. He's at least listened to you talk about NC and why it was important since then -- even if he didn't "get" it.

You've made progress since 7/11, don't let this set all of that back.

Can you calmly ask him about it? Figure out your feelings and share them -- calmly?

"Honey, I saw the cell phone bill today, and your last call to OW was on it. It brought a lot of negative feelings rushing back to me. I feel threatened and insecure when you have contact with OW, and those feelings are amplified a thousand times when it's kept secret from me and I discover it on my own instead of you telling me about it."

That may not be what you want to say, but whatever you do, make sure you have calmed down, centered, and can breathe and think before you do anything. Act from all the knowledge and new skills you have gained instead of reacting in anger.

Wait! Breathe, think, feel before you decide how to act.

(((hugs)))

-AmI

Rinderella,

Sorry to hear about the set back.

I think that Ami has it right. This contact was before you confronted about the NC.

Sit back and calm down a little.

You should discuss it with him as part of radical honesty.

When you found out NC had been broken he had an obligation to tell you the whole truth about the contact.

Explain to him when you find out on your own it makes you trust him less then if he just told you everything.

Use the I feel..... when you have ....

Rin,

They all are right! Do not do anything that will turn this into the love busters of the century. You have been doing so well. He is coming around very slowly and tonight you were going for a ride. Remember? Follow their advice and take a deep breath. I have been through this numerous times before the final NC.

7142

Well, I saw the bill right before I left for lunch. I had the time, date and number on a piece of paper. He saw it, asked what it was, got mad but no loud. I stayed calm, but I was shaking. We talked about it at lunch, come to find out, he's doing it to be rebellious. He's asked me not to check it, I've asked him not to call. I check the bill, he calls her. I called him on the PA behavior, said he was intentional trying to hurt me. That every time I see a call, it hurts, being back my insecurities, and anxiety. He tried to change the subject to me. I said that I was not going to do this, I was not going to allow him to change the subject to me trying to make him the victim.

I told him that one thing I can promise is to always be O&H with him, even if I'm wrong. It's hard to admit when I', wrong but I'm working of that. I said I was very proud of speaking up for myself and it seems to get easier each time. I said I wasn't afraid anymore. He asked afraid of what, I said the unknown, his reaction, my voice. I said I was tired of being dysfunctional, I was taught growing up that lying and keeping secrets was a way of life. Not speaking up was a way of life. I kissed him and came back to work.

He just called me to ask a question regarding where I went last Thurs. Wanted to know why I didn't turn on a certain bridge, I said I felt you might have been following me, so I chose to go down to the next one, and turn there. He was quiet! I said by the way, I'm learning to love unconditionally, something that I've never learned. Me love for you has always been conditional, same with the kids, and other people. I'm learning and that's why I'm able to let go of the anger and resentment that I use to have. With conditional love you want to punish. I said I'm still going to love him if he calls OW or not it's going to hurt me, and now that I know he's doing it on purpose, it hurts more. I said he was still the man that I want to be with. I said what I think he needs to decide is where he has conditional or unconditional love for me? I said I didn't want an answer that was for him to know. He said whatever! I said have a good day. I got "Yeah, okay!"

I feel amazingly great about it! I faced my fears, expressed my feelings, moved my buttons, was O&H, and my point was made. I surprised myself!
Thank you GOD!

Rin,
I am so proud of you!!!
I still haven't had the talk with my WH yet.

Don't let the one minute get you down.

Others here may not agree but to me that barely counts as contact. and see he was just doing it so you would get upset.
Don't let him win. Don't let his thought control your feelings.

Hang in there!

Blind

Thank you guys soooo much! I love the concern and greatly appreciate it!

Funny, today, I don't see it as a setback! It was a move in the right direction for me! That's what matters, he's still going to be him, unless he decides to find himself!

I'm proud, I overcame a lot of fear, and learned a lot as the words seem to come from nowhere. I feel great about myself, and have no need to focus any more on the situation. It's the past. I explained about the trust issue and about my LB when I see C. I'm not explaining it again, and if I see C well that's him trying to hurt me, and I'm not going to be dragged down by it. I feel if I ignore the behavior it will go away and if the calls increase then I have another decision to make, but not until I get there!

Just wanted to let everyone know that we've spoke several times this afternoon and there no tone to his voice. He called me baby. We're good it seems. Babysitter cancelled for tonight! Just got off the phone with my cousin, she's going to babysit from tonight to Sun. WOW< BABY!

H is very happy when I called him back to let him know I got one! We're GOOD!. I'm GREAT!

enjoy the time alone together!!!!
Blind

BS-Thanks, I will be flying high, regardless of his mood. But I've determined that my mood, is a reflection of his! I call out "okay, PA mode!" OR "I see PA." I don't take it personally, it's his choice, and I remain happy, no ill will forwards him. PA mode is getting shorter and shorter for the time being...I'll have to keep an eye out for a switch in game plans! LOL

Rin,

Wonderful!! Enjoy your time together and remember to have fun!! Us moms forget what fun is unless it is with the kids!!!

7142