I rarely post here, I've read alot but haven't posted much. I did post a couple weeks back regarding Kiwi's stich and retracted what I said. I didn't feel like my ranting would help anyone.

My question. My wife works nights and I work days. It is nearly impossible to get 15 hours a week in alone time. I really believe that we need that time. I've asked her if she would look for a day job but she says she really likes her job. No, OM, doesn't work with her. I really feel frustrated that she won't consider an alternative. She says she wants to work on our M but my question is how???

Any advise on a good approach in changing her mind? I want to meet her EN's but have no idea when?

Do you have any kids?
If no.
Would you consider working nights?
If so there is one solution.

We have kids. That's part of the reason she works nights. I feel like she's my roommate, just passsing each other in the hall occasionally. What kind of marraige can we ever have if we can't spend time together. When we argue how do we make up? There's not time. There's no time to be intimate. There's no time to just be together.

I wrote a post, but it seems that it is not coming up??? Here is goes again:

can you work nights? do you have family to watch kids or neighbors or friends??

can you take a vacation day for one day each week for the next few weeks to get some extra time together without the kids?

CAn you meet her for lunch? dinner?

CAn you go to work with her?

Can she go to work with you?

Soem jobs can, some can't.

What about weekends?

good luck I haven't seen WH all week he has been at class, at work, at second work for $$ and more! I have had 0 hours with him this week. maybe that is whay I am feeling distant.

I think this is one of the traps that people get into becasue it looks like the ideal thing - then they find out they are drifting apart (or an A happens) and realize what they have done by working these kinds of schedules. (This is background, I'm not trying to bash you.)


If she won't consider an alternative you must consider her reasons.

1. She likes her job more than being married to you.

She won't look at it that way - she may say you are trying to control her, and not letting her have freedom. That if you love her you will want her to have this job that makes her happy.

However, you can already see what happens when married people don't spend time together and don't meet needs. If she wont' accept the truth about that, and she won't change jobs, what do you have? I mean, really WHAT DO YOU HAVE?
A marriage, or a joint payment plan for debt and expenses?

2. She doesn't understand.
This one is tough too. If she wants to learn, you can share HNHN with her, and she will come to understand. She must also be willing to make changes once she does understand.

3. She knows but doesn't care.
This goes along with number 1. Is she in withdrawl and distant still? Does she WANT distance right now?
There is much we don't know about her feelings.


There are things that can be done to give you a full recovery. Unless she is willing to do those things you don't have recovery at all. You have limbo.

You need to decide what you will do - since you can't make her do anything, nor should you want to force her.

Do you want to stay in limbo? If not, what are you going to do if she won't help with recovery?

I realize this isn't a direct answer to your question.
I would need more information to help with that directly. Most important is is she willing to read and act upon what she reads? If so, start with HNHN.

If she is not willing, you need to make up your mind what you will do if she won't help. She can do what she wants, but so can you. Be careful with this.

SS

I'm in a similar situation. My H works nights (from before kids or I get home from work/school until about 2-3 am, usually) and Saturdays, and I work regular days. I hate it, but we've found a few ways to work around the schedule.

We make it a priority to do lunch together at least 3 days a week. Is that an option for you? Do you get a lunch hour where you can leave your office?

Also, I try to take him dinner most evenings. Since I'm already cooking, it's easy to do, but it always earns me major points with him, anyway. Depending on how busy they are, we may only get a couple of minutes together, or we could get an hour ... either way, it's a little bit of time and a big EN met for him.

On weekend nights (when I can sleep in the next day), I will go to bed as soon as the kids do, then set an alarm to wake up when he gets off work, and will go meet him at the gym at his office and we work out together. Kind of odd to do in the dark hours of the morning, but since we can both sleep in after we get home, it doesn't hurt anything. Plus it's fun and we both like it. If working out isn't your or your wife's thing, maybe you can cook breakfast or hamburgers or whatever and have a meal with her when she gets home. Or whatever it is that you guys like to do together -- there's nothing that says you have to spend your time together while the rest of the world is also awake.

And if she's off on weekends, then I'd try to maximize that time with her as much as you can. Have something fun, that you both enjoy, already planned so that she doesn't have to put any thought into it.


Also -- what other EN's does your wife have that you can meet without her being there? Can you leave little love notes in her car for her to find? Or have the kitchen clean and a load of laundry done when she gets home? Call her a few times, or send some e-mails or IM's just chatting about the day? I think you can find other ways to meet EN's even if she's not actualy there.


I really do understand how much the clashing schedules suck. We had to get prety creative, but are finally starting to figure out how to get the time in, although there are still occasionally days where we don't see each other at all. That's when the other things help a lot.

My WW works nights as well. We are trying this and while not optimum, it is working.

She sleeps while I'm at work. She is up by the time I get home and kids get home from school. She gets 1.5 - 2 hrs kid time before I get home. We are trying to get 1.5 - 2 hrs alone each evening and make up lost time on weekends.

Not the greatest, but we are tryign, she really is trying hard as now school is out she is trying to sleep with 2 very active teenagers in the house.

It can be done, but sacrifice is everywhere.

Good luck!

POJA and Brainstorm with abandon.

Thanks everyone for the great advise. I will try some of the ideas. I have tried some already but will keep trying. It's just so important we spend time together. When we are together things are pretty good. When we are apart for a couple days we seem to quickly disconnect. This message board has been so helpful.

Still Seeking,

"1. She likes her job more than being married to you. "
Seems like it doesn't it. Or, it's an easy way to avoid having to deal with her problems. Out of site, out of mind.

"2. She doesn't understand &
3. She knows but doesn't care."

She understands. She has read HNHN. We both were trying to meet each others EN's for several months. I have continued but she has pretty much abandoned the whole thing. So, she doesn't care. It sure seems that way. In fact I'm to the point where I feel like I'm running in circles. What's the purpose. In fact, the thought of ending the whole thing seems better than having to suffer this horrible abyss. What's worse? A divorce or living miserably? We've been at this for almost 6 months.

AmiWalsh,

What I would give for someone to make me dinner. Wow, what an effort. All I get is "I need to sleep". Yep, she needs to sleep. Apparently that is more important than me too.

I feel like I either need to end this thing or to take a break. Is that bad? Being the BS, if I really need a break, would it be smart to move out for awhile to see how it goes. I'm just burnt out. I know it seems so contradictive to my initial post but my point is if we aren't working on our M then why be here? My love bank is so low. At first I cared so much and I really would like to work this thing out but I'm fried. I'm so tired of it all, it can't be healthy for me. I find it hard to see where any good is going to come from where we are at, other than the kids? So little faith eh?

I want to feel love, admiration & affection. I want to give love, admiration, affection. If I can't find it here, what are my choices? I feel like I'll forever be compared to the feelings of OM. I can never live up to the fantasy. I'll live my life as Mr. SecondBest. I'm not going to fall into having my own A. So, I divorce and then move on? That's the right choice? What a great thing to have going through your head 24/7. How many people *really* recover or do they just go through life feeling like an ongoing recovery effort is what they *have* to do?

She likes her job more than being married to you. "

can you afford for her to have to work only part time or not at all

how old are the children...

What I would give for someone to make me dinner. Wow, what an effort. All I get is "I need to sleep". Yep, she needs to sleep. Apparently that is more important than me too.

do you make her dinner...
have you broken this down in to seperate issues instead of glumping it all together...

discussing the value and how much you look forward to and WANT to spend dinner time as a family...
POJA a number of times a week this can happen AND work together on a menu plan...

cooking ahead for the week
crock pot meals that cook all day and are ready to go..
making meals the night before for the next day...

are YOU working on POJAing these things...
who gets the kids ready in the am

does she do all that work after being up all night...

you can't go belly up on this..

was there an affair and are you TWO in counseling and if NOT there is NO recovery without counseling in my opinion...

where is the action of the recovery program...

I want to give love, admiration, affection.

then do it...and change your attitude about your expectations...
learn to give selflessly ...
giving up expectations for a while and see if it doesn't free you to be even MORE giving ...

ARK

I actually meant to suggest that you make her dinner and take it to her at work. Are you cooking dinner anyway for yourself and the kids? It wouldn't be too hard to pack some of that up and take it to her, would it? If she gets a lunch hour, maybe she can spend that time eating with you. Heck, you could even pick something up and take it out there if that's easier.

I don't make my H dinner because I expect him to do something "back" for me. I do it because I like that it makes him happy, and I like that it gives us some time together that we wouldn't otherwise have, and I like making his day that much better and easier. Can you do things for your W just to make her happy, and without focusing on what she has or hasn't done for you?

First let me say this.

You need to sit down and really figure out how much "extra income is brought in by your W working nights."

I know this sounds stupid but I watched a Dateline episode one time and there was a situation where the H worked days and the W worked nights and after everything was said and done the total "extra income was only about $50 per month.

They calculated this by using every expense associated with the second job. For instance this family was eating out 3-4 days a week. Nothing extravagant McDonalds etc. They calculated the cost of gas, the cost of babysitters on overlap days etc. They even calculted the extra cost of gas when the grandparents watched the kids but the father had to drive there to pick them up.

My FWW had a night job as well and it was wreaking havoc on the family. After I sat down and did the math it actually was more financially beneficial for her to take a part time day job while the kids were in school. To be honest in our case there were mitigating factors as well. She worked in a womens clothing store and lots of money went right back to the store. LOL. But I counted it.

If I remeber correctly there was actually one family that they followed that it actually cost them money for them both to work. Again I know it sounds crazy but the math worked out.

They went back to these families a few months later and they were happier and living better.

If you sit down and do the math this way and it comes out better for her to work part time during the day you now have a persuasive arguement for her to work days and not nights. Even if she doesn't want to spend time with you she can at least spend it with the kids.

We split shift as well..and we have found ways to make it work with three small children and one in the oven.

We *do* bring each other meals..there's half an hour right there.

We work within a two mile radius of where we live..another choice.

I work nights..H works 2nd..so only ONE child is home during the day..the other two are at school. Sometimes he'll come snuggle in bed with me when the baby naps..sometimes I get up a little early and make up the lost couple of hours in the evening when the kids have gone to bed. On fridays I stay up and we spend the day together until he goes to work [3rd works sun through thurs..so this is not a prob as I just go to bed with the rest of the fam that night]..then we spend the whole weekend together as a family and as a couple. We don't use sitters so all of the income is gain..we make SURE to set aside a fair amount of $$ to do some fun things often. Not necessarily big deal stuff..but fun. For example..last weekend we took the kids to a fair about 20 miles away from where we live. It was hot and expensive..we totally got taken by one of the fast talkers [very expensive teddy bear those kids won] we went on rides that made us feel sick and watched a belly dance troupe.

This weekend we are planning to take the kids to the drive in. Two movies for seven bucks an adult..the kids go free. We'll take the van and snacks and sleeping bags..pull out the seats and after the early kids show they go to bed in the van while we have our own date.

We bought a surround sound system and very often rent a movie for after the kids go to bed..we don't readily have sitters..so this is a nice comfy alternative.

We rack up waaaaaaay more than 15 a week.

If it is a priority it can be accomplished.

Having one spouse stay home can be an option..from a financial standpoint I can definitely see where YOH is coming from..in fact we tried that model and from a cashflow perspective it was fine..just didn't work for us.

So basically..there are options and ways around stuff..but it takes effort and planning and yes..sometimes acceptance of sacrifice. We can't ALWAYS get enough time together..but those are exceptions to an otherwise workable plan.