O.k. - I've been dark for a good two weeks again now(or longer, I can't keep up).

Got a note from WH asking again about taking DS to see his grandparents. He said he would like to talk to me about what it would take on both our parts to be a family again. He said that continuing to isolate us from each other is making permament separation more likely.

I am planning on calling him tonight to let him know that my stance has not changed from day one. A NC letter sent to OW is what it will take on his part. Then I will be silent.

It could be another ploy to get me to break Plan B. Or a "nice note" to manipulate me into letting him take DS out of state.

Regardless, if he can't do a NC letter then I still feel uncomfortable about him taking DS out of state.

Kim

I'm not good at this plan B stuff so let me lend some support, more than advice.
Doesn't he already know about the NC letter?

OH WOW? So he DOES NOT KNOW what "it will take," despite the fact that you have told him endlessly and sent your PBL several times?

Is your husband mentally IMPAIRED? Or is he feigning STUPIDITY in order to buy a new opportunity to MANIPULATE you?

How about sending him a note with something like this:

"Please let me know when you have ended your affair and all pursuit of your affair and have demonstrated this with a nc contact letter sent to the OW and her H and a copy to me. At that point, we can begin discussing what it will take to reconcile."

Methinks he is just trying to get you to break your Plan B again so he can get you back under control. He needs a fix to stay out there and pursue the OW for a while longer.

YOU SAW WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE WHEN YOU BROKE PLAN B, DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE, KIM!! If he is SINCERE, he will do what it takes.

Oh, GEEZ. You guys are so right.

I just keep thinking about what SH said - to keep repeating, keep repeating, keep repeating.

And then DARK.

SO, that's why I was thinking to just repeat to him my terms and then be silent.

A "supposedly" positive move by a WH? Thought I would just repeat my terms.

Kim

Repeat this term:

"Please let me know when you have ended your affair and all pursuit of your affair and have demonstrated this with a nc contact letter sent to the OW and her H and a copy to me. At that point, we can begin discussing what it will take to reconcile."

This is always your sticking point, because it is your bellweather of his SINCERITY. If he won't do that, there is no need to go forward because you will know he is not sincere.

Kim, previously he REFUSED to send the nc letter to the OWH because he was "afraid he would hurt the OW." You should realize by now that was only a ruse to protect his AFFAIR, not the OW. Because once he saw that you wouldn't give him any money, he dropped all pretense of wanting reconciliation and went back to pursuing his affair with the OW.

Please tell me you aren't you going to allow him to trick you into hiding the nc letter from the OWH again? BECAUSE IF HE IS REALLY DONE WITH HIS AFFAIR, HE WILL NOT CARE IF THE OWH IS NOTIFIED. I would make it very clear to him that the letter must go to the Owh and that you must be able to CONFIRM WITH HIM that he sees no sign of the affair.

The terms have to be repeated in order for him to know that you are SERIOUS about upholding them. So send him a note with the most important STARTING POINT. When he does that, you can talk.

I SOOOOO want to call him though. And just have that conversation on the phone.

I won't be able to get a note to him until Tuesday. And that is our 14th Wedding Anniversay. I would have to put a note in DS's bag.

Can't I just call him and tell him what you wrote above on the phone??

Mel, after speaking with SH, SH said he would "consider" allowing WH to leave the NC on OW's voice mail........

Kim

Does he not have email?

Kim:

Your like a puppet with this cheating husband of yours. The man has so much power over you still (and that is saying alot considering how much he has already lost). This is NOT something positive. It is more of the same BS.

Why is it that you think your WH is so "stupid" that he doesn't know the terms for reconciliation. He is an untrustworthy man...but on this point, he has never wavered. This is more of the same "testing" you...and ofcourse MORE of the same reaction from you. I know you are besides yourself know dying to talk to him and feel him out.

You'll be back here again. He just wants to make sure you are "still there"...then when ofcourse you confirm you are..he can go back to the single life he lives.

Yeah, I know all the old party line of "fog" and all of that BS, but this ain't it. Your WH knows full well what he has to do. You know all of this too, but are so desperate for a "positive" sign that you will take anything at this point.....don't know what else to say.

Sorry that my opinion is not full of comfort and hope and optimism regarding this latest episode of Groundhog day.

Lem

I am sitting on these thoughts. Have not done anything yet.

Moveforward, I don't know of an e-mail address for him.

Lem, I see your point with this Groundhog day thing. He knows what my condition is. Why would it have changed since the last time?

Lem, I am stronger than you think I am.

Kim

But will you allow it knowing and understanding that the entire purpose was to NOT interfere in his affair? The reason was because he WAS NOT SINCERE, as you can now see with your OWN EYES.

Lemon is exactly right. There is nothing positive here. A positive step would be for him TO DO THE THINGS NECESSARY TO COME BACK. He ain't gonna do them. He is just whistling to make sure that ole loyal dog is still out in the back yard waiting for the master.

Sorry to be harsh, Kim, but that is all this is. If he were sincere, he would be jumping through hoops to PROVE to you that he has sent a nc letter and is complying with your terms.

But, there is NOT MENTION of that. Oh no. Not only that, but he continues to show his DISRESPECT by demanding that you allow him to take DS to see his grandparents after you have already made it clear the ANSWER IS NO. Does that sound like a guy who any interest in doing what it takes to reconcile? Doesn't to me. This is just more fools gold, this is just more of him testing to see if you are still out in the back yard and will come running when he whistles.

Guess I just need to be hit on the head a few times.

And that's why I come here. To keep me straight.

Why is it so hard for the BS to keep things in check? For me, I don't believe that I am "desperate" to get WH back. Is it b/c we are blinded to the trickery that the WH has up his sleeve?

I was always very naive growing up. I guess that is still kind of true.

Thanks guys, I'm off to bed.

Kim

Kim

here is your homework assignment...

what is the purpose of Plan B ....

write it out

write out your goals for Plan B

Pep

If this is truly his concern, then why won't he do the things necessary to STOP the seperation? The truth is he doesn't want to do them and won't do them. He still believes that your conditions are negotiable.

Pep - Got your homework assignment. I will work on that. Sometimes I am so clear about this and others I am not.

Mel - It's the same 'ole, same 'ole. Always something that I am doing to keep us apart. WH still can't take responsbility. I am seeing things clearer(I think) after a fitful night's sleep.

I am thinking of three options right now 1)do nothing(staying very dark) 2) write a note following Mel's guideline and put it in DS's bag for tomorrow or 3) call WH's bestfriend in tell him the conditions - even though the bestfriend is not an official intermediary I believe that the friend would realy the info, it might be better since WH won't be getting a direct note from me.

I guess the question is really whether or not this warrants a response. Do I go with the "repeat back to the WH and keep it simple" route?

Kim

I think I will go with the simple note.

"WH - I am ready to talk to you about what it would take to build a better marriage and stronger family. I am ready to look at your letter to OW at any time. This step is not one that we can skip. Happy Anniversary. Love, Kim"

Not exactly word for word on Melody's........

Kim

I don't think you should send a note.

But if you are don't say you are ready to talk about M and family until AFTER the NC letter to OW.

I started writing a journal to my H...of all the things I want to share with him....maybe he'll show up one day.

Its tough w/ your anniversary here but is THIS the man you married? That who you are waiting for isn't it?

Kim, I think your note leaves a manipulator like him a WIDE berth to do some more manipulating becuase it doesn't sound firm or resolved. If you are not absolutely specific about what the next step will be and very specific and FIRM, he is not going to believe you are FIRM. He will only do exactly what he has done in the past. NOTHING.

He will use it another opportunity to try and negotiate your conditions. He does not get it because he does not want to get it. And it will stay that way until you are straightforward and FIRM in your resolve.

I don't think he believes you are steadfast about your conditions because you don't sound firm in your communications. I sure wouldn't think so from reading this note. You sound accommodating and weak, an open invitation to a manipulator. You are trying so hard to be OVERLY NICE, that it comes across as WEAK to him, I suspect. I don't he takes that seriously, nor does he respect it.