Okay posting this under subject as suggested by believer.

Here is the link to my situation so far

Don't know what to do WH gone


Email I sent to H:

I hope you are having a great day and next time your boss brings you extra work tell him he should also be bringing you lunch at the same time.

I wasn't sure if you were planning on doing the brakes on my car on Saturday so I just wanted to give you heads up that I won't be here Saturday for a good part of the day so it will either have to be on Sunday or Monday (Holiday) or whatever fits in your schedule. Please just let me know so I can plan accordingly.

Also know you said you would show me how to operate the pump on Saturday, but not sure what time I will be home so if we can't do it on Saturday can we plan another time soon?

How do you feel about you and I sitting down and talking about what each need and or want from each other to make it where you want to come home and what it would take for each of us to commit to working on our marriage?

Love you always


H's Reply:

We worked all day on the ___ presentation so no time for lunch today. If not Saturday on the truck brakes then Sunday or Monday. Same with the pool. I'll probably use Saturday to work on my car. ______ (I removed the name here) said she does not want to see me any more. Please stop calling her. If nothing else please do this one thing for me. Thanks. My rent is due on Tuesday or Wednesday. I would like to avoid having to pay another week.

His reply just doesn't sit well with me. It sounds like he just wants to come home to keep from paying rent where he's at. Am I putting to much into his choice of words?

I had recently confronted the ow a few days ago (it's all listed in my other postings) anyway, I had been working plan A and now with him coming home how do I continue to work plan A and keep the home place a place he wants to come home to when there are some things I need to have in order to feel comfortable with him coming home

For example:

1. I need him to write a NO Contact letter to OW
2. I need all passwords on everything removed
3. I need him to answer the phone when I call him at work (sure there are times he may be busy and I understand that)
4. I also need us to go to marriage counseling together.

I want to email him telling him this but then I'm afraid putting this on him will make him withdraw. But if I don't have those done then I'm not comfortable having him come home.

In addition I know I don't want to have sex with him. That had never been an issue before but now it is because if I sleep with him according to the attorney it's "forgiving the affair" and I'm not ready to do that until I know he is coming home for the right reasons and wanting to work on making a better marriage then we had before.

If this is the case, should I at least be HAPPY he's coming home even though no mention of us working things out?

"Condoning the adultery" is another phrase that's used in connection with SF in your circumstances. In addition to your other requirements about SF, you don't know where OW has been. Those full batteries of STD tests has to be done before even thinking of SF.

LH,

Are my questions coming from the Taker side of myself. If I ask these things will they push im further away. I'm not sure I can welcome him home though without the above though.

However in Plan A, you are suppose to make the home an inviting place to be, not sure that would be doing that if I need those things.

Now even sure how to send an email so that he understands how important they are to me.

Lesie. YOu have done an admirable job. And yes, I would think that you have reasons to worry.

From my own sitcch, I let the Dork back too soon. He didn't follow through on stuff he said and he didn't prove his intentions. AND worst for me was he had not REAL remorse. And without a REAL understanding of WHY he had such poor personal boundaries that he so easily swapped them to enable his adultery.

And Yes it does sound like like it is financial. So IF OW does not want to see him any more, WHERE is HE? Still at her place?

But these are only questions that I am sure you have asked yourself. HOwever, there is a far better chance to do a GREAT Plan A when he is home with you. HOwever, I would suggest looking at the main part of this website and look at the negotiating tactics. SO that you can sit down with WH and say that you are WILLING to negotiate the terms of his return.

#1 would be MC, Transparency, avaialibility and last but not least, STD testing now and every six months for at least two years!

HAve you consdiered having him sleep in a separate room and charge him rent? LOL Well half joking. BEcasue IF you sleep in the same bed, it is still consdiered forgiving. I think.

Leslie, from personal experience, a false recovery is a killer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> and I think you are very wise to be cautious. BUt by reading all your posts, I see that you are very logical and have your ideas and plans firmly in place.

Okay--so I will preface my input with the fact that my chaos started in august of last year, so I am about a year into this being a part of my history, but in no way an expert.

I am, however, confident in knowing that I had my boundaries, my expectations, and my standards, so to say. And I think it is okay to have these things for yourself and for your marriage.

When my WH wanted to come back, I let him know what I would need to recover from this.

Actions, as we have all heard, speak volumes. Words--they're empty without the actions.

He didn't think my list was worth it.

You're much sooner into this than me, and that might make a big difference on the timing, however, I don't think it is ever too early to have boundaries and protect yourself.

As for the SF--true as gold I would not have it until the STD testing was done.

IMHO--now is a good time to let your WH know you're not a pushover, that he can't just walk in and out, that you're worth it, and that you have some boundaries. I fhe really wants to come back, Iwould think he'd get this. And if not, then maybe it isn't the right time yet. He might have some more "thinking" to do about what it would really be like without you.

I may be way off here, so if I am in regards to all theplans and such, forgive me. I am not a save-your-marriage at all costs kind of girl, especially if the "all-costs" part comes in the form of setting yourself up for more and more abuse. I thought I was at first, but then I realized it was okay to have boundaires and stick up for me.

It is very early in all of this for the affair to be over. I think that is to your advantage. But who knows if it is really over? Time will tell. I think it might be, but you need to make sure before you have him move back in.

It is good to stay in Plan A, and it helps if they are living at home. But your husband chose to move out. Letting him just move in with no conditions is not good.

On the other hand, you want to give him hope that the two of you can work on a much better marriage. And also that you won't hold this mistake over his head forever.

I think I would tell him that you need some time to process all of this. Then you can check to see that the affair is over, and you can watch his attitude.

Okay here is the e-mail I sent in regards to email I received from H. I really want to talk to him in person about the things I need in order to feel he is coming home for the right reasons.

[color:"red"]My e-mail: How do you feel about you and I sitting down and talking about what we each need and or want from each other to make it where you want to come home and what it would take for each of us to commit to working on our marriage?[/color]

[color:"black"]H's reply: My rent is due on Tuesday or Wednesday. I would like to avoid having to pay another week[/color]

I have to admit this confuses me on if the reason you want to return home is strictly financial. I don't know if that is how you meant it and I don't want to assume it is, so that is why I am trying to clear this up. Do you want to work with me on making a new and improved marriage?

I know there are many issues I need to work on myself, because it is half my fault that our marriage got to the state it's in. I'm willing to work on them. I know there were needs of yours I was not meeting and there were needs of mine you were not meeting. I want to figure out what those needs of yours are and work on meeting those. I am hoping that is something we can agree to do for each other.

How do you feel about us taking about some of our needs before you make the decision to come home? Don't get me wrong I want you home more then anything, but just want to make sure we are on the same page and want the same things.

Can we talk about this Sunday or Monday evening?

Sounds very good.

I think your situation is very hopeful. But at the same time, you don't want to do the false recovery stuff.

Hang in there and take your time.

What I found out from OW was H was not living with her (according to her) he had his own place. This happened to be at an extended stay hotel. Anyway I guess they thought they had it covered that way he could say he had his own place but according to the OW and the PI, even though he had his own place, he stayed with her. (Is there really a difference)?


My original plan was that after OW was out of the picture that I really wanted H to remain on his own for a few months and for us to work on us, BUT after talking to LH and several others they pointed out to me that working PLAN A would be easier if he was at home. I'm still not sure I completly believe that but then again I'm remembering how it was before he left.


I am hoping that he will sit down and agree to work on negotiating his return. I don't feel that I'm being unfair to him about the things I MUST have in order to be comforable with him returning home.


Thank you for pointing out the sleeping part, I will run that past the attorney. I don't want to hold anything over his head but I do want to continue to make sure I am financally protected if he's coming home for the wrong reasons. LIFE TIME SPOUSAL SUPPORT is hard to give up if he's not willing to try.

As far as another room, unfortunatly we don't have another one available. 4 Bedrooms here, One room is mine (notice I said mine and didn't say mine and H's) # 2 and #3 bedrooms are occupied by our sons, #4 Bedroom is the bonus room over the garage and is our computer and junk room. (no comment here on the junk) lol but if I moved that stuff out I would have no place to put it. SO that leaves the couch and somehow I don't see the couch as someplace he should be sleeping if we want to work on our marraige.


Wow what an awesome way to refer to it. False Recover. I like that termionolgy. Anyway that's exactly what I'm afraid of.

Once again long winded here. Sorry

What is the current status of your marriage legally speaking? Have any papers been filed?

I am in Tennessee. I have read that I can put a hold on the divorce WITHOUT claiming reconciliation (and losing the right to a fault divorce based on the adultery).

Talk to your lawyer about how to protect yourself from a false recovery attempt (financially speaking).

Can't help you on protecting yourself emotionally speaking. If my WH sent a message saying he wanted to come home now to save on rent, I would offer him a decent rate on renting the tool shed.

Does he know the conditions you have presented?

So far all I have done is consulted an attorney to find out what my rights were, now of course this was while h was with the OW. Current status would be Legally Married. I have no idea if H has filed any papers but I don't think he has.[/quote]


I am trying to avoid filing any papers until and unless I see that the marriage is definatly heading down that path. One of the goals I have recently set for myself, was to NOT start something that I don't plan on carrying out. I have a bad habit of starting projects and getting bored with them and they sit unfinished.

I will definatly ask the attorny about the false recovery attempt. For some reason there is just something in my gut sayng that while he may be wanting to come home it would only be physically and his heart would not be wanting to work on anything. (A lof of this is due to the emotional detachment that was so apparent when he was here)


Not yet. I have sent him the email as shown above but that was sent to his work email, and while he can access it from anyway he has not replied. I'm okay with that for now because if he's read it and hasn't replied at least he's thinking about it.

Still no reply from H reference the email I sent. One thing I have learned through this whole process is that I am worth something. I have come a long way during the time H has been gone. I know I can make it on my own and actually survive and find things to make myself happy.

While this does not MEAN I am going to give up hope on H and I working things out it does mean that I have to know he wasnts to come back for the right reasons. Until and unless he does, then we have no marriage.

I think I have also finally realized this is no longer just about what H wants, I have a say in if I want him to return. Since his name is on the mortgage I can't forbid him to come home but I can control my actions and reactions while he is back. I will no longer accept the emotional detachment he was showing prior to his leaving. We are going to have to find ways to talk to each other.

It hurts a lot to think that I love someone so much and had given the power to them to cause me such pain. I don't think no matter where this path takes me that I will ever put so much of my self into caring for another person. The risk of pain is just to great.

I also don't ever see myself in being as trusting of a person as I was before. I would have bet my life on my H never having an affair, so I guess it's a good thing I never placed that bet with anyone. As it stands now, I do not trust him in the least. Trust will have to be earned back. I can not freely give it to him again.

I am going to order a key logger and put it on the computer he uses (I just hope it's not detectible, he's a computer guru). I wrestled with myself on doing this and came up with the conclusion that since I can't believe anything right now that he tells me and I don't want to constantly wonder or ask him all the time, so the key logger I think is my best option.

I think I'm just down in the dumps right now, worried about him coming home, mad as heck that he hasn't answered my email and angry that when I called he didn't answer the phone (left voice mail - saying I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't at his desk right then, but since he's talking about coming home, the least he can do is talk to me on the phone when I call, also told him a return call would be nice)

It feels so strange that something I have worked so hard to get (him returning home) is almost here and now my stomach is doing as many flip flops as it was when he left. Only difference this time is instead of the disbelief like I had when he left, Anger is showing up. I am worried that my anger is going to drive him away before he even comes home, but I can't seem to stop being really mad at him.

Leslie, it's hard, but if you can...relax and let things play out on his end. He's going to do everything he can to be a conflict avoider for a while. You've made your position clear in your emails to him, so let him sit in his hotel room and stew over it, if that's what he wants.

I'd quit calling him and emailing him on the same issues. Make him come to you. I see a chance of appearing insecure and needy if you continue to try to make contact with him. If he has that in his head, it will undermine your position when he comes to the negotiating table to determine under what conditions he is to come home.

Don't worry about whether his name on the mortgage entitles him to come home any time he wants to. You know that, and I know that, but...by asking permission to...he's acknowledged you control that. Don't surrender that powerful negotiating position. He wants something he feels you control. Use that to your advantage.

Anger and resentment usually show up in the dynamics of recovery. Working your way through the consequences of an adultery is very similar to the process of grieving for the death of a loved one. It’s here that a good, professional, and pro-marriage counselor familiar with problems faced in marriages dealing with adultery can be of great value. Would you consider engaging another counselor you’ve shopped around for and made certain had those characteristics? I think it would help.

Here is something Lor posted a few months ago -

WHEN THE ONE YOU LOVE WANTS TO LEAVE by Donald R. Harvey.

There's a chapter near the end about spouses who want to come home with lists of appropriate reasons to return, and inappropriate reasons that I think is right on target. It is written with the WS being a WH, so swap the pronouns/genders for your sitch.

Appropriate/right reasons:
-Definite resolution of the motivation that prompted the departure in the first place.

-A genuine desire to work on the problems in the relationship (this includes those problems created by the separation).

-A genuine remorse for the pain caused by the separation and a recognition of the need for forgiveness.

-A genuine acceptance of the personal role played (contribution) in the deterioration of the marital relationship.

-In the case of repetitive irresponsibility, demonstrated behavioral change over time.

Inappropritate/wrong reasons:
-Personal loneliness yet having no real desire to be with the rejected wife.

-Purely logistical considerations such as needing a place to stay, financial strain, or personal convenience and comfort.

-Not attaining whatever it was that motivated him to leave in the first place, yet also failing to resolve it (still has the "pull" to the other woman or the "push" of feeling trapped in the marriage).

-Wanting to come back for any reason, yet being unwilling to deal with the relationship. "I'll come back if we can pretend it never happened (avoidance). We can just pick up where we left off."

-Any reason that does not include acceptance of at least part of the responsibility for the marital failure and recognitionof the need for forgiveness as oppposed to blaming.

[ March 19, 2005, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]

Believer- That is a wonderful article, thank you for sharing it!

Longhorn- I love to see your posts! I have to agree with you! I would have to sit back and let him stew in his own juices. As a matter of fact, I hope that you have been keeping up with me. i would like your insight!

Leslie- You can do it! From the way you write, you seem so in control and on the right track. I'm very proud of what I've read so far and I get strenght from you. So thanks! Look forward to your posts!

H just left. He had to come over to pick up his car, he sold the one he had been driving and needed the one that was here. I had told him earlier that when he eventaully sold his car to call me and I would pick him up and bring him here to get the other car. Well he never called me to do that (but that's ok, my offer was out there) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He e-mailed me telling me he would be over tonight to pick up the car, I never offered to pick him up again, but I made sure I was at the bus stop waiting for him when he got off the bus. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, on with my saga, we get to the house and I ask him if he would like to come in for a few minutes, he replied, "maybe for a few", but before he could come in the guy across the street started talking to him, so I went in the house and put a pizza in the oven for him in case he was hungry. Turns out he wasn't but my grandson sure loved the pizza. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, h stayed just a few minutes, I hugged him as he left (no return hug from him) I am starting to wonder why I even bother anymore. I asked him if he was going to continue to stay where he's been staying he replied "He was going to move out on either Tuesday or Wednesday depending on when rent was due again. So of course, I say, and do what, come home? He said Yes. I asked him does this mean you want to work on the marriage, he replied YES. Tt sure didn't sound that way in his voice, but I know he's also hesitant because if his memories are like mine, before he left, we were both miserable.

I told him, I think we both should talk before you move back home, and asked if he agreed, he said Yes. Again in an emotionless voice, so I proceeded, (call it prodding if you want, but I was starting to fill like a dentist because I felt like I was having to pull information from him.) I asked him what day is good for you, "He said Monday, I guess". Guess now I will wait and see if he makes the time to talk to me on Monday.

The last thing I told him before he left, was there was one thing I have to have from him before he comes home, I said I want you to think about this, becuase it's very important to me. I told him he has to write the OW a NC letter. He asked what that was, I explained it to him, that I would also help him write it and I would mail it. He said "She's already said she doesn't want to see me", I told him, that's not the point, I NEED you to write her one. I could tell he didn't like that idea, but honestly I think it will be a deal breaker for me if he's not willing to write it.

Strange but after seeing him, I feel sad. I think part of it is knowing this is probably our last shot to get it right or end it. I had just gotten to the point where I wasn't crying everyday, and now, I'm scared to have to go through all the emotions again.

It's like I'm afraid to open up to him, becuase I don't trust him with my heart anymore. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> That makes me so sad just to know that I feel like I have to protect my heart from the person who pledged to love me forever.

What you have to realize is that if the OW has broken up with him, he will be in withdrawal from his fantasy, and will be sad or emotionless. Later he will realize that he was not thinking right, but not now.

I would not let him come home without some changes. At least I would insist on the NC letter.

You say he internalizes all emotion, you know him best, is his agreeing to talk more of a positive then it sounds like in writing

Piggybacking on what believer said, your WH is going to be a mess for a while and it will be up to you to do the heavy lifting until he comes out of the fog. Patience is the key. Give him what affection he can accept but do NOT expect anything in return for some time to come. Even if he was outgoing and demonstrative with his affection and love before, he’s incapable of it right now.

Stick to your guns on the NC letter. Point out to him that while OW has told WH she doesn’t want to see WH, he hasn’t said he doesn’t want to see her. If he’s thinking he can leave that open, just in case, then reconciling isn’t doable just yet.

My thinking is if doesn't, can't or won't agree to write the NC letter then there is nothing for us to work on.

It feels so strange to hug H when and get nothing back because he use to always be good at affection. Yeah even when it was faked by him, I could still count on a hug and a kiss.

From what I understand he will be here it sounnds like for a good part of the weekend working on various cars, and hopefully he will show me how to work the pump on the pool. I am glad he agreed to talk on Monday, that way I can do my best to forget about things till Monday and see what happens then. In the mean time, I will do things I had planned on doing before I knew he was coming over. This should help him to feel safe and secure at home because he won't feel like I am clinging to him.

I think tomorrow as soon as I get home from work I'm going to start dinner and if he is hear and joins me great if not then I'll have left overs for sandwiches the next day.

I am going to continue to look for a counselor (the one I really want to try wasn't taking new clients a few weeks ago but I think I'll try and see if he is now. He is a marriage /family counselor so sounds like what I'm looking for. I am hoping that on Monday I can bring up the idea of couseling to H and see what his reaction is to going. I'm thinking IC and MC, with the same person. This way the counselor will know where we are both coming from and might be able to help put is on the right track to work together on our marriage.

Something else I was thinking, while we are talking on Monday and if it looks like we are both on the same page about working on the marriage should I suggest that we both put our rings back on as a renewed commitment to each other, or should I not even bother with it?

I still have to say you guys and gals that have helped to get to the point I am at in this journey with my H are incredible. Thank You so much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />