Hello everyone. I am new at posting, but have been reading for a while. I could really use your advice. (I had written a long explanation, but it disappeared before I could post it. So I will try a shorter version, and if you have questions, please let me know.)

I believe my H is having an EA with a woman. We were good friends with her and her H for years. They live across the street. OW works with H. I suspected the EA a year ago. I confronted H and OW about it in the beginning. Both denied, Said I was crazy. I exposed it to her H a few months later (with copies of phone records, communications, etc, and information regarding another A that OW had the year prior.). All along, H has refused to acknowledge it as an EA. He doesn't believe in them. He claims they are just friends. To him, the only thing that defines an A is sex, and he completely denies having sex with her. I tend to believe him about that, but I am not totally convinced.

After exposure to OW's H, things did improve a bit in our marriage, and their contact did decrease quite a bit. We have discussed things we can both improve upon. H explained to me some things I have done that hurt him in the past, and I have worked on those. H has worked on a couple of the issues that aren't OW related. I pretty much went into Plan A - not knowing it was a Plan A.

Now, 5 months later, things have gone back to the same old patterns. They are working together again (my H has a landscaping company, so they didn't work together over the winter). The phone calls have started again. I also found out that the EA affair I thought had been going on for a year, has actually been going on for at least 2 years.

Our mutual friends are now on the side of OW and H, who have claimed all along I am crazy, insecure and trying to cause trouble. They have heard their side of the story all along. They haven't heard mine, nor are they interested (they avoid me completely), so exposure to them is nearly worthless.

H and I have gone back and forth about divorce. We're at a stand-still now. We get along great for the most part. As long as I don't bring up OW. Once I do, the fighting begins.

H has finally agreed to go to counseling, and we begin in 2 weeks. Though he says he doesn't know if he wants to stay married, because he doesn't know if we can fix our marriage. Part of the counseling requires all ties to a 3rd party be severed. H refuses to do that, because he claims there is no third party. I don't know how we can move forward if he can't acknowledge that their relationship is not healthy for our M. He has agreed to stop seeing or talking to OW outside of work if I agree to stop fighting about her. That has been the past month, and the signs are he has stuck with this. But they work together everyday.

I don't know what to do. Are there any suggestions as to how I can get H to see why I view their relationship as an EA. (The lying, the sneakiness, the hundreds of phone calls, the late night phone calls after her H and I are asleep, the hundreds upon hundreds of dollars speant on cell phone calls between the two of them, his refusal to change their relationship to save our M, etc.) I don't know how NC can even begin if he doesn't see or understand the need for it for our marriage.

I really wish I would have found this site at the beginning because I would have handled things so much differently.

Thank you for reading.

Hi msg,
I was in the same boat. This site helped a lot. I asked for advice, and got some great replies, and then I passed them on to H. His initial response was "they are all angry betrayed people- I never had a PA"

So, I read through the articles and found specific info on EA's, and heard other people's EA stories. I shared all of these with H, and the light started to go on in his head...

I had copies of the e-mails they were sending back and forth, and forwarded them to H's mom and sister. I made him try to put himself in my shoes and re-read the e-mails. I forwarded the e-mails back to the OW, and told her to do the same.

I threw the e-mails back in his face every time he tried to deny what it was. When H began to see how this would look to other people, like our immediate family, and OW's H (who also got copies of the e-mails), H FINALLY quit denying. It hit him like a ton of bricks, and when he realized how serious it was, and that he stood to lose his family, he agreed to do whatever it takes. He is leaving his job if OW doesn't first. They are both aware of what they've done to me now, and are actually BOTH looking for new jobs.

msg, Get people on your side. Don't go to THEIR friends, go to YOUR family and friends, HIS mother. You have to hit him where it hurts. If you have proof of the "nature" of their conversations, and that they were NOT business-related, that would help. Don't give up until he sees the error of his ways and is BEGGING forgiveness.

msg, there is no way to magically force him to come to his senses. He knows what he is doing is wrong, regardless of what he calls it. He can call it a baloney sandwich if he wants, it is still destroying your marriage. And he still does NOT care if it does. If I were you, I would read everything on this site and get the book Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley.

Have you exposed the affair? Does his mother know? What does the OWH say about all this?

Nothing short of moving away frm that OW will ever save your marriage, if even that. It sounds like this has gone on for so long that the affair is pretty entrenched.

Listen to ML ... she is great at this stuff.

There's also a book called "NOT Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. It has short, easy "tests" to determine if something is an EA or not. And a chapter on whether or not A's have to include physical contact. You may be able to show those to your H, although he probably won't be interested. The book will also be helpful for you, though.

msg,

You mentioned MC begins in a few weeks. Even if your MC isn't familiar with MB concepts, there may be hope for you there. My FWH's IC told him flat out that his R was an EA. She didn't let him sugar coat it at all. She told him that he wa playing with fire, and told him that he could lose his M if he didn't end it.

Your WS is still in the fog, using any excuse to justify continuing the A. Many of us have been there, and will help you through it. You will get some great advice here. Apply it and you will make it.

Most importantly, take care of yourself.

(((msg)))

HIT

Thanks everyone. Reading all of the stories here has been a huge help. It is so nice to have a place where people are supportive of working on the marriage vs. just leaving!!

His mother knows some, but not much. They have a quasi-estranged relationship. I had called her in the beginning for advice on how to talk to H, and told her a bit about what was going on. She immediately began giving me his excuses word for word, so he had talked to her first. Since then, she does not talk to me.

I have talked to a few of my friends. I have tried to only talk to the people I know are supportive of our staying together. That has backfired in the past with some, but others have been very supportive. They don't want to talk to H about it though, to stay out of the middle.

As far as "proof" of the nature of their conversations, I have none. I have records of the phone conversations, dates, times, etc. The sheer number and the timing of many are suspect. To me what defines it as EA is the fact that he has told me on many occasions that he will not change their R to save our M. He just refuses to give an inch when it comes to her. Also the lying and sneaking that took place in order for them to communicate. When he has promised to change things (3 times), he has broken every single one. In fact, he increased his behavior with her instead. H doesn't use a computer, so something more concrete like e-mails or chats is out of the question.

I don't know what OWH thinks now. We haven't spoken since I gave him copies of the phone bills months ago, although we do wave at each other when we're in the yard, etc. Since then I have found out their calls began 2 years ago, not last year like I had thought. So OWH does not know that. The calls from her cell phone immediately stopped the day he received the coies of the phone bills, so I am guessing that was because of OWH. That lasted for a few months, and she was still calling from home. I also think she had been blocking her number to call him. The only reason I can think she would do that is so I can't show "prove" to her H that they still talk. OWH can easily contact me, and since he hasn't, maybe he doesn't want anymore information? He is also still very friendly with my H. I just don't know.

I am continuing to read and learn here. As many of you know, this is so very difficult. I am trying to learn how to talk to H about my feelings about OW without it turning into a fight, and I haven't accomplished that yet. I don't see how we can make progress unless we are able to speak calmly about it. Or at least until I am able to speak calmly about it.

Thank you all again.