Since your D-Day was only about a month ago, it seems to me that you did not have a chance to do PLAN A long enough.

This is what Dr. Harley says about this and where I get my POV:



So again I say: PLAN A and then, most probably, PLAN B..but it is best to do an effective PLAN A first...

Given that the A is with a younger woman, I would suspect that it is the highly ADDICTIVE kind like my FWH's so it will be hard for him to break off from her. But, also like my FWH he seems to be a cake-eater, recognizing that you do meet some of his needs. I say, finish off with PLAN A, then get yourself prepared for PLAN B....then RECOVERY....one step at a time..and this may take awhile...

Of course, you have already shown great guts and humility..

I'm encouraging you to stay in the FIGHT and a FIGHT it is...

And..I see PLAN A as including maintaining your SELF-RESPECT as suggested by Dobson in LOVE MUST BE TOUGH...clearly stating your boundaries and NEGOTIATING the end of the affair ...just don't LB, yell, scream or beg.. I said from the beginning to my FWH: "I will not continue to share you with anyone else....it hurts me that you are having an A, etc."

Yes, he is a foggy alien..all that stuff about calling what you did today a "stunt"..let it go in one ear and out the other...try not to listen to his ridiculous comments. He wants to bait you into a fight so that it can be about YOU and not about HIM...

FOCUS ON YOURSELF AND YOUR PLAN..I agree with Orchid on this..but I say that YOUR PLAN NOW should continue to be PLAN A...

Back later...hang in there....

There is no such thing as this in the MB SYSTEM.. Stick to the SYSTEM....

Hi Leslie,

As many have written, your H's actions are very typical of an active WS, unfortunately. I'm so sorry you're going thru this.

From most of your posts seems you're expecting recovery actions from your husband when he is STILL ACTIVE in the affair. Until the affair is over, you can expect anything BUT honesty, poja, ect. He is addicted and cannot be trusted. Hence, Plan A for Leslie.

Can you tell us what things you have put in place in support of your Plan A?

And BTW, there is no hybrid of Plan A / Plan B. First you Plan A, then implement Plan B if necessary. And "yes" you can effectively plan A while separated.

Jo

And the way you'll know you are in recovery and you can believe your husband when he says the affair is REALLY over ....

HIS WORDS WILL CONSISTENTLY MATCH HIS ACTIONS

Well in one of his emails where he indicated the OW did not want to see him anymore. It was in the same email he said he wants to come home. He said his rent was due and he didn't want to have to pay rent again.



Here are the things I have done since D of affair.

1. I first collected evidence of an affair.
2. I confronted H and sat at the table talking very calmly to him (neither one of us are shouters)
3. I hired a PI for additonal evidence
4. I confronted OW
5. I sent H's parent's an email exposing the A.
6. I have made numerous attempt to contact the OW's parents (she is single) finally left a message on their answering machine.
7. I had highlights put in my hair again
8. Took entrance exams for college classes
9. Submitted paper work at work for tuition reimbursement
10. Signing up this week for the actuall college classes
11. Signed up for a learn to ride motorcycle class
12. Read or in the process of reading DB, DR, His Needs Her Needs, Surviving an Affair, Love Busters, Should I stay or Should I go, Fall in Love, Stay in Love, sorry can't remember the names of the other books.
13. Obtained joint custody of my grandson
14. Brought H lunch home one day while he was over here
15. Tried to keep conversation light
16. Invited H to join me for a No Relationship Talk fun day together
17. Cleaned the House top to Bottom
18. Painted One room that was never finished
19. Hired electricial to fix some items around the house
20. Had hose replaced on my truck
21. Talked to a counselor
22. Paid all the utility bills since in my opinion Financial Support is high on H's emotional needs list
23. Took on an extra day at work (so now working 6 days)
24. Watch my grandson at night while son is working
25. Been father and mother to both of our boys (course they are grown but they both still live at home)
26. Gone to a movie
27. Not cried in front of H
28. Not hollored at H
29. I have talked to a lawyer to know my options and what possible outcome would look like from a financial standpoint
30. I picked up H from bus stop
31. I drove H to get another car he purchased
32. Gone out to eat alone
33. I leave after H has been here for a bit, just to make him wonder if I'm moving on without him.
34. I gave H EN questioneer and asked him to please feel it out
35. I have studied and read tons on this advice
36. I told H that a NC letter is important to me even though OW said she didn't want to see him.
37. I asked him, "How would you feel about us sitting down and talking" I guess what I'm saying here is I didn't just say lets sit down and talk.
38. I have apologized to him via letter on the mistakes I made in our marriage


That is what I can think of right now. I'm not if sure that is the type of list you were wanting.



So please someone tell me what there is left to do? What am I missing?

Leslie, you have been doing Plan A. Rest easy on that issue. I don't know how long you worked on it before you even had a name for it, but you've been doing it at least for the past six weeks. I'm sure it's been much longer but you haven’t told us much about the time before he moved out on you to live with OW. Don’t be concerned you haven’t met the requirements for doing a Plan A before a Plan B.

Heck, even if it is just six weeks, that's half the time frame Dr. Harley writes of as the average a woman be in Plan A. Averages are constructed from longer periods...and from shorter periods too. Yours may be one that comes in at the low end of the scale. Regardless of how long it's been, when one gets to the point where resentment and frustration begin to overwhelm one...and when one's love begins to turn to questions of whether there is a good enough basis for a marriage to continue, then it's time to consider a Plan B.

After six weeks of a separated Plan A, and whatever time period before he left you, you need to stand your ground on letting him back into the house. I don't think it would serve any purpose to allow him back without requiring appropriate commitments to the marriage, particularly since, when you decide to go to Plan B, you will want him out of the house anyway. Keep to your plan, Leslie. It’s a good one.

You aren't missing anything Leslie. I think some have not read all your posts and it's leading to some confusion. You're doing more to save your marriage than any ten other women in the same situation would have the heart to do. Trust yourself, Leslie. You're in charge of this recovery and you're doing fine.

Looks like you've done a very good Plan A, Leslie.

I'd say one thing you need to do now is to come to a resolve that you cannot control your husband or his actions. That was one of the hardest single things for me and perhaps for most BS here.

I will tell you after 6 years on this site that your H's affair has very slim to no chance it will last, much more so than most affairs due to the age difference. I know this doesn't make it any less hurtful while going thru it hon.

So although you've done some stellar Plan A work, I believe this affair hasn't really died its natural death even though your H has asked to come home. Seems finances are tight and he decided if he moved home he could have his cake and eat it too. IOW, all he really only changed was the venue.

Jo

LH,

I really value your suggestions so much. You have been here from my first postings and asked me questions, prodded me to do the things I was resistant on doing, gave me a cyber shoulder to cry on when it was needed, encouraged me, and kept me going.

What are you thoughts at this time on starting Plan B?

My questions?

Isn't Plan B turning him over to OW?

Should I wait and see if he tries to return home this week?
Stick with my boundaries (NC letter, IC and MC, transparency)

Should I implement Plan B prior to when he was talking about coming home?

Continue to expose as I think of other people?

Pack his things up (clothes) can't do much about stuff in garage, to much there.

Am I suppose to leave my house (notice I said MY HOUSE) now if he wants to come over to work on vehicles?

What do I do if he violates my Plan B, should I just leave the house for the day until he's gone

Have attorney file papers to require him to pay mortgage payment so that is one less thing I have to worry about? I'm not sure papers can be filed requiring this unless either S or D papers are filed.

Write Plan B letter to H, OW, her parents and his parents, or just to him?

I wish to apologize to everyone here who took the time to give hope and suggestions. In my previous posting, I thanked LH but failed to thank anyone else. This was wrong of me.

I'm sorry

Orchid: If this is what you still see, feel and hear then he isn't ready to come home. Remember Leslie, this is just my opinion. You weigh the facts from what you know and how u r feelings. Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. Your the one with the sane mind. Don't let the WS make you think otherwise.

Btw, you don't owe a WS a single cent. It's your H you want back, right?




Orchid: You have done, a lot. How do you feel? Do you know your personal boundaries? That c/b your next step. Identify your boundaries and if he is still a WS at heart, then plan B. U see the path where plans A, B & recovery are often taken is because the WS is still a WS. If your WS changes back to your H while you are in plan A working on your self improvements, then you can shoot right to recovery PROVIDING you feel safe. If not, then plan B

So the big questions are:
1. what has he done to deserve to come home?
2. has his actions made you and your family feel safe? Safe that the WS is really out of your lives?

Just to let you know, in my case after all was said and done, the one boundary that stayed was that I could no longer tolerate an OP in my life. Even if that meant losing the WS. I realized having a WS in my life wasn't healthy for me anyways so losing a WS wasn't such a big loss. Like yourself there were a lot of accomplishments I made when the WS was OUT of my life. More than I realized. So either my H came back or there was t/b no recovery. Having a WS in the home was not acceptable. But it took me a loooong time to figure it out. I am hoping u r smarter than that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I hate to see a BS go through false recoveries. That's why it was sooo hard to stay away from posting to you. Please 4 give me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know some disagree but when I say plan A your spouse and plan B the WS, I mean that when you see your real H peeking out, treat him well. Let him know you love him but the second the WS emerges......don't shower him with the same affection. Have you noticed when you do it only hurts more?

Again, remember these are just my thoughts and opinions. U weigh it all out and do what is best.

Btw, try calling Steve H for a plan. He will really help.

Hope our posts are not confusing. We are basically coming the same source, just different POVs. What you as a BS must do is decide what pieces work well 4 u, gain the confidence and implement w/o regret.

Resillient helped me a lot waaay back when. She speaks from experience more than you can imagine. Pay heed.

take care,
L.

Leslie,

All of us here know what a horrible experience this is you're going thu. And I want you to know you don't deserve any of it. You've made some great changes and done hard work in the face of a very devistating situation.

Please stay strong and remind yourself often to be good to yourself.

Jo

WOW! That IS a great plan A.

Orchid and Res are right--we all want the same thing for you--first a recovered self and second a recovered marriage--but the latter not at the expense of the first thing.

I think you are doing an amazing job, especially considering how early into this you are.

Motorcycle classes, huh?
See--you're definatley a brave woman <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I know if it were me, and now knowing more than I ever wanted to know about affairs and their nuances, I would not let my husband return home unless and until he met all my conditions, incl. a no contact letter.

Also, my radar would be up for his actions matching his words in a BIG WAY until I allowed him home.

Jo

Don't be confused, because some of us are just tossing around ideas. There is really no need to do anything right now. Sometimes, when you don't know what to do, it is better to do nothing.

When/if your husband talks to you about coming home because his rent is due, I think I would just listen. These WS's have some crazy reasoning. It will be interesting to hear his.

He can hardly say that the OW wants nothing to do with him now, unless he claims they were saying "goodbye". It would be strange for him to say he wants to come home because his rent is due, and he still plans to see OW. But it wouldn't be unheard of.

Leslie, a Plan B won't turn your husband over to the OW. Your husband has already turned himself over to OW. It was his choice to go to her in the first place and his decision to move out so he could play house with her full time. You had no part in either of those decisions and Plan B is not encouragement for him to continue his inappropriate behavior in any sense of the word. You're just saying you will not accept him being around you until he eliminates her from his life.

Sure, wait this week if you want to…and as many days or weeks as you need…to see what he does, now that he knows there are conditions. I sincerely doubt the alien who has control of his body is going to be able to process them in its mind and come to a rational decision, but there may be other factors at play you don’t know anything about that will influence him. Definitely stick with your boundaries. They are logical ones, the things that will give the marriage a chance to work. If you don’t have a boundary of not allowing a third person intruding into your marriage, you don’t have a marriage.

Plan B is for you to decide when to implement, whether it be tomorrow, next month, or on the 4th of July (to pick a random date). When you don’t have the energy left to fight off the resentment over what he’s done, shrug off the frustration at his inability to do the right thing, and when you begin to feel your love slipping, you take refuge in Plan B so that your love does not die.

Definitely continue to expose. Steve Harley has recommended exposing even several weeks into Plan B. Exposure is not a thing to be avoided. It’s a tool to use to smash the obscenity of adultery.

If WH asks for his clothing, let him come by and pick it up. If you’re in Plan B at that moment, you can tell him (through an intermediary, if possible) you will have it all packed up and available in the garage (for instance). Failing that, you should definitely arrange not to be there when he comes by to pick it up.

Your husband is apparently getting some kind of personal satisfaction…a way of still feeling connected to you, if you will…by coming over and working on the vehicles. I understand it will be more expensive for you, but you really need to cut off that tenuous “Leslie fix” when you go into Plan B. Your Plan B letter will ask him to respect you enough to avoid coming to the house, calling or emailing you, etc., until he is ready to commit to the marriage. If he violates that, you leave his presence.

Leslie, more often than not, a Plan B also involves some type of legal action, whether it is a legal separation or actually filing a petition for divorce. Remember, just filing for divorce doesn’t mean it happens any time soon. There’s always a breathing space built into the process. The purpose of those legal proceedings is to make sure you are protected from a petulant alien taking reprisal action against you.

Theoretically, a Plan B letter is just to your WH. If you want to write a letter to his family though, go ahead and do it. It’s exposure…and every little bit helps.

Hang in there, Leslie. We know it's tough, but we'll all stay with you while you work your way through this terrible time.

Leslie:

Sorry you felt hurt by my response. It was not intentionally hyurtful, but I cannot help the way you felt about it. When I was saying "stop begging"....I was referring to you crying and being hysterical asking if your WH wants to come home when he was busted screwing the OW. I do NOT know why you are so shocked he would lie and continue to deceive you. He is clearly demonstrating to you that he DOES not want to come home for the reasons you want. He is a cowardly cheater, and a liar now, but he did tell you the 100% truth when he mentioned he only wanted to come home for financial reasons. ANYONE who says differently now is drinking the kool aid. My words are never meant to be hurtful...so if you don't want to hear this...please just put me on ignore. Others can however benefit.

Yes, I know the theory that a BS should DO ANYTHING to get a WS home so they can "plsn a" them. Do what you want....but if you do this....you should know FULL WELL, that there will be false recoveries and continued cheating and lying. If the doctor and MS say to do this, by all means, but you should fully also understand what you are getting when you get him home like this. It would NEVER be good enough for me..but that is just me, and I am not an "expert", so do what they say.

Mimi...will give you all the kind of support you are looking for today.

Best of luck

Lem

I skipped reading some of the last number of posts...I'll have to go back.

If a WS is already out of the house then you don't let them move back in until all the prerequisites for recovery are in place. I agree with Longhorn and Orchid on this.

I agree with all the other advice Mimi gave besides having your WH move back in too fast. That will make a false recovery more likely to occur if he can move back home too soon. You should try to plan A a few months at least. Then if you finds yourself at risk of losing your love for your H then go to plan B. Had your H not moved out then you could have plan A'd while he was still home.

The A has to be over and a recovery plan commited to prior to him moving back home. It would help if he is to the point of having remorse too.

If in doubt, Les, try to run it by SH or Jennifer Chalmers, if you can afford it. Or, call Dr. Willard Harley next week during his radio show. You can email his wife, Joyce, some time before you try calling so she can get the picture. Listen to their radio program, there are usually some situations that are similar to yours which you will be able to relate to and hear the advice Dr. Harley has for the callers.

My situation was similar to Mimi's and we are also in recovery. Your WH isn't any more deceitful than the average. Mine was a complete liar during his A. He started lying about stupid little inconsequencial things...just cause he could. I don't know if it felt powerful to him. He was an alien.

Know that this usually takes lots longer to go through...(a rollercoaster ride from H*ll) than most expect. Most A's run their courses around 2 yrs. My H's longest A lasted on and off for 4 yrs. I made lots of mistakes in how I handled it. We had a few false recoveries. The last one was 8 months with no false recovery. Over 3 yrs recovered so far.

Our marriage is much more solid and better than it was pre-A(s).

First there was no crying. I Do not let H see me cry. Second when I asked him abuot coming home it was meant more along the lines of "How can you be planning on coming home when you are here"


I am so shocked because this is not the man I know or the man I married. The man I married did not have it in him to cause pain or hurt to anyway. He was always one to put other's needs and or desires before his own. He was the rock of our family.

Yes his email did say he didn't want to pay rent anymore, however when I asked him is he planning on working on our marraige, his reply was yes.


You forgot one thing to your descripton of my H. He is still my husband. I do have my boundaries set in place and one of them is H can not come home until there is NC with OW and he has written a NC letter to her.

I know I can not control his actions, thoughts or beliefs but I can control how I act or react to them.

I also know that our marriage may not survive, however I will be able to hold my head up high knowing I tried. Unfortunatly H won't be able to do that so he will have to live with that knowledge.




Thank you for your thoughts and help.

Leslie:

I don't want you to have to be defensive in responding to me. I am on YOUR SIDE here. Protect yourself, maintain your dignity and self respect (DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU TO DO DIFFERENTLY DRESSING IT UP IN MORE PALATABLE TERMS)...and you'll be ok. As many have told you already....the actions of your WH have been seen many times here.

You should plan on anything he says to you as being a lie untill you see ACTIONS that dicate differently.

Lem