Hi. I am a newbie to this site. I am sorry that this is so long. I am trying to determine if my husband is cheating on me. Our marriage is going great right now. We had some rocky years after the kids were born(never any cheating that I know of), but have really worked on it the past year. I don't have any actual proof, but I have had a really bad feeling for the past year.

Let me give some of the facts. He has lied to me about opening new credit cards, getting tickets, getting arrested(just for not registering his license plates), being sued, etc. He travels for a living, so it is really hard for me to find anything. He keeps his cell phone with him at all times, keeps his wallet locked in his car, keeps his briefcase in the car, etc. Doesn't like to see him read his email, etc. His cell phone is through his job so I can't pull up his phone bill. His computer is from work, so I can't really get on it. He is not around much so it is hard to tape him or follow him.

I think that he has another email address, but I can't prove. His friend always lists his name twice when he is sending emails to a list of people. One goes to work, but I can't figure out where the other one is going, not to his personal account. He says that he doesn't have any other accounts.

I check his personal and work emails. The only thing that I have found is several emails to some woman that he met while out of town. Over two days they emailed back and forth about ten times. Mostly just one sentence comments joking with each other. It didn't really seem like much except he definitely knew about her--mentioned her exboyfriend in a joke and told her to have a good day with someone(female name). It didn't seem like that big a deal, except that she told him not to be afraid to call her when he came in town next time. She also told him to keep in touch. That really bothered me. He received another email from her a few weeks later and said she wondered how he was doing and asked if he would be coming in town any time soon. It made it seem like they hadn't been in contact during the weeks in between. I never saw a response sent from him, just saw that her email was deleted. I could have misssed it, though.

In between these two times, I had a talk with him and told him that I considered him meeting and emailing other women cheating unless it was a neccessary part of his job, like talking to his secretaries, etc. I said that I just wanted to clarify this, since I have read that a lot of men don't consider this cheating. He said that he doesn't talk to other women while traveling, doesn't give out his card, and doesn't email other women. All of which were lies. Her job has nothing to do with his. He said he had to go back to the city where she lives for work. I said that I didn't want him to. He asked why and I said that it was always hard to get ahold of him when he was there, he always seemed busy, he coudn't text me there, etc. He asked me if I trusted him and I said no. He changed his plans and didn't go. He has never done this before.

Am I being paranoid? I would really like to call her and talk to her. Her phone number was on the email Would this be a bad idea, since I have no proof of anything? I really want to know where they met, did she know he was married, etc. I know this is all jumbled. What do you think?

Keep digging if your gut tells you something is up. Also go to Plan A and make you and your home a place he wants to be. Can it be arranged to go on some of these business trips with him, like a little get away time, yes he'll be working but he'll also be with you.

Welcome. If he was cheating, it would probably not do any good to call her, as she would lie, unless she didn't know he was married.

The fact that he cancelled the trip seems very encouraging. People in affairs usually have an extremely hard time doing that.

Also most affairees send emails, texts, or call on the phone 200 to 300 times a months. So that makes me doubt it.

But keeping everything hidden/secret is worrisome. Have you told him how that makes you feel?

need...

I really hate to say this, because of course it is the last thing that anyone wants to hear, but based on what you've said here, there is almost definitely something going on that shouldn't be...combine what you've said with the feelings that you are having and it's almost a guarantee...I'm so sorry...

Now, many times, "newbies" come here and when they are told that something is going on they so much want to believe the opposite, that they will convince themselves that the folks here are just paranoid based on what's gone on in their own lives...But here's the real deal, #1, sadly, yes we have seen it up close and personal and that gives us a really unique perspective...not a bias, heck, we'd all LOVE to tell you that everything is A-Okay, go live it up and celebrate, but I have yet to see a time when everyone told someone that something was going on that it wasn't...sigh...I hate that...#2, 80% of marriages experience infidelity, so unfortunately, the odds are way up there that the instincts that brought you to an infidelity forum are dead on...Need, no matter what, you owe it to yourself to inspect what you expect...OK, so here are a couple of ways to go about that...

I know that you said that his computer is a work computer, but can you get access to it at all??? If so, install a keylogger on it immediately...that will email you a plethora of info...and the mystery email acct. will also be revealed...Does he ever use your home computer at all? If so, install a keylogger on it as well...

Go to Radio Shack or Target and get a voice activated digital recorder and put it in his car...under the driver's seat or in the back seat pocket of the driver's seat will work the best as far as positioning goes...that will yield much valuable information...

Need, I'm very sorry that you have to be here, but in light of what it sounds like is going on, it's honestly the best possible place that you could be, so welcome...it's truly a wonderful place...Read everything on this site about Plan A, and begin implementing it immediately...I would hold off on calling the possible OW(other woman) for now...let's do some intel first and then we can decide on other things later...usally contacting the OW is ill advised, but let's see what you find out before cementing anything, K?

Need, are you willing to do these things to help yourself? You won't be alone, will all be right here to hold your hand and walk you through whatever you need help with...take care of you...


Mrs. Wondering

I don't have any access to his work laptop. It has a lot of programs that he uses on it and he frequently has to take it in to work to have them fix problems. I am afraid that they would find something.

I can put something on our home computers. I have that program called Spector or something like that. I used it last year and actually that is how I found out how to check his work email. He hasn't been using our home computers much at all, but hopefully he will this summer. He will be home a lot of the summer.

I have been checking on him for about a year off and on. I haven't really found very much except that I know that he lies a lot. I have talked to him about it and he always to think that it is nothing important. He apologizes and says that he is sorry and he won't do it again.

One thing that bothered me was an email to a coworker. The coworker(a male) asked him what his status was. He said "married but looking, why?" I thought that he could be talking about job status, but when I asked him about this he said he didn't know what I was talking about. He said that he didn't even remember it.

He does text people a lot. It drives me crazy because I don't know who he is sending them to. Sometimes he shows them to me, but I can only ask so many times before he starts in about how I don't trust him. He has a Blackberry, so he is always checking it. It is hard for me to know if he emailing or texting without looking at it. He also talks on it. He says that I can see all the calls, but I know that he can just delete the ones he doesn't want me to see. Last year it got so bad that he even mowed the lawn with it in his pocket.

I don't really think that he is having an affair with one person. He travels to a new city every day and only returns to each city a couple more times during the year. I think he just cheat with whomever he finds or knows in that particular city. I would love to travel more with him and he does ask me, but it is difficult because we have children. It is also very expensive to fly to a different city every day. I have gone a few times with him and he has even taken the whole family with him on a trip that he was going to be in the same city for a few days.

I don't know what to think. He calls me and texts me several times a day. we spend a lot of time on the phone. He always tells me how much he loves me and appreciates me. He spends a ton of time with the family when he is home and helps with everything. He plans surprise trips for the family. We go out on dates and have a great time. We get along so well. I just can't shake the feeling that something is wrong. Maybe it isn't another woman, maybe it is something else that he is hiding. I just don't know. He had gained a lot of weight the past few years and I know that it really bothers him.

NA, in my signature block there's a link to a thread on gathering intelligence. I don't know if it will do you any good, but you might check it out to see if it sparks something in your mind.

If there are no “private” phone calls he excuses himself to take, no unexplained absences when he’s supposed to be at work, no unexpected overtime hours, no short trips to the store that turn into hours away, no nights on the computer lasting into the wee hours, etc., etc., he may not be doing anything at all. Alternately, he might be having a series of one-night stands (ONS) as he travels. If he is, he may well be finding hookers when he doesn't meet someone at the hotel bar. That's dangerous in this age of that big disease with the short name. I hope he's not doing this.

Since he asks you to go with him from time to time, I don’t think it’s likely he has anything regular going on, unless you see a particular city or cities that he doesn’t invite you to. That he canceled the trip to the city you didn’t want him to go to tells me he wasn’t involved with that woman.

Everything you mention could be indicative of him hiding something other problem. For instance, there might be financial difficulties you don't know about, or he may have an addiction to gambling, alcohol, or whatever.

About the only things I can suggest are to see if you can get a look at the credit card records he uses when he's traveling. Look for patterns of unusual amounts withdrawn from ATMs or payees with no reasonable connection to a business travel expense. If you can’t look at credit card records, perhaps you can look at your tax returns for a couple of years and see if you can balance what receipts were turned in with the actual expenditures from his personal accounts during that period.

It’ll be hard work to find something using that method. Perhaps your best bet would be to hire a private investigator to check out his activities while on a trip or two. Actually, your best solution would be to get him to find a job that didn’t involve traveling and then follow the precepts for a good marriage in the last half of Surviving An Affair by Dr. Willard Harley. Good luck, Lady. If you find your husband is straying from the marriage, you’ll find a lot of folks here on MB who will be your support group while you work your way through the difficult times.

Get busy exercising and taking care of yourself. Are you sure you don't just feel bad about yourself and that is what is making you doubt him?

Of course, the Blackberry in his pocket while he was mowing the lawn was a little strange.

NA...

The above quote is a HUGE [color:"red"]RED[/color] FLAG!!! Hey, maybe it's just me, but as a FWS(former wayward spouse), I gotta tell you that that just SCREAMS at me...Coworkers, at least in my experience, DON'T use euphemisms like that-especially two men-honestly, and I asked Mr. W about this, men are pretty simple and straightforward about most things...Also, that combined with the lies, the text messaging and the mowing the lawn with his Blackberry...

Further, the woman that you mentioned that he was having the one sentence email dialogue with...that is all too familar to me...in my affair, I did that, most of the emails were very innocuous...it's a bit of a "flirting dance"...men don't do that with women that they are not interested in (by the way, did he allude to you or your children in any of them?)...think about it, if a man were to send you that many emails in a couple of days, wouldn't you KNOW that he was interested in you? Also, the fact that he asked her about one of her girlfriends by name...men don't typically store that type information and then recall it to the person unless they are trying to convey interest...Not to mention that he knew enough to joke with her about one of her ex-boyfriends...smells really fishy to me...

NA, I'm honestly not trying to be a "Negative Nelly"...I just have a serious gut feeling when I read your words...I'm sorry to say, something is definitely amiss here...Remember this: PEOPLE THAT HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, HIDE NOTHING...I think that the private investigator route is a great one for you...ESPECIALLY when he visits the city of "the woman of many emails"...that might be quite a fruitful investigation, would you be able to do that? What do you think about the digital recorder idea? ALSO...is the keylogger that you have called Spector Pro? If so, I just read today that it can't be detected by spyware if it is installed in stealth mode...so, I dunno, maybe some of our more computer savvy posters will come along and comment on that...

Mrs. W

P.S. If your husband travels to the Detroit area, let us know, Mr. W and I would be up for a little reconnaisance on your behalf...Seriously, we would be glad to help you out...

Need_answers, I agree with everything Mrs Wondering said in her posts to you. She is 100% spot on. You are definitely not paranoid. Something is not right, especially regarding the e-mails between your H and this woman. Your H has already crossed the line because he keeps the correspondence and/or friendship with this woman a secret from you. This is a big red flag. If he have nothing to hide as far as what he feels, says and/or does with this woman, he wouldn’t have had the need to lie to you and be dishonest with you about it (keep it secret). I was involved in such e-mail correspondence with a opposite sex friend myself, so I know the danger signs – especially regarding the joking and subtle flirting with this woman. These “flirt dancing” is not as innocent as it might seem on the surface. Most A’s start this way. Please read the following thread to give you more insight (just click on the link):

15 Steps Of Unfaithfulness

I agree with the things that everyone is saying. I just wanted to check with people that have actually been there. When I read the emails I definitely felt like he was flirting with her. I told my sister that after I read the emails to her. She is the only person I have shared all of this with(and of course her husband). I think that is why I want to call the OW so badly. He made no mention of having a family in the emails and I get the impression that she doesn't know. I wondered if she might get mad when she heard that he was married and spill the beans to me, but I guess that is just wishful thinking. I would rather stop something before it really gets going.

I have talked to my husband about my fears and he always says that he has never done and never would do anything to hurt our marriage. What exactly does that mean??? He does try to reassure me.

He does stay on the computer until 2 or 3 in the morning. He has never been much of a sleeper and this is when he does most of his reports for work, because he has to travel during the day. This is one of the things that made me wonder last summer. I did record everything he did on the home computer using Spector Pro and there wasn't ever anything out of the ordinary. He spent a lot of time looking at old cars and at houses because we thought we might have to move for his job. Maybe he was using the work computer, but whenever I went into the office during the night he was always on the home computer. He knows that it bugs me, so he has been trying not to spend as much time on the computer at night when he is home.

He hasn't been using his work email much at all since we talked about me not trusting him. I think that he might have figured out that I am reading his work email. That really makes me think that there is another email address or he is just texting everyone. Does anyone know if it costs more to text message from the US to Canada? The OW lives in Canada, so I know that phone calls would be more expensive.

I will look into getting a recorder to put in his car. Once again it is a company car and I can't drive it. I don't even have a key to it. I am sure that I can put it in sometime though. Are you sure that he won't hear any noises when it is running or when it turns on and off? I am worried that he will find it.

Thanks so much for everyone's help, especially Mrs. Wondering. I know that it takes a lot of your time to help me and I really appreciate it.

It’s possible that your H justifies and rationalizes his behavior in his own head and doesn’t view his secretive e-mail/conversations with the OW as betrayal or damaging towards you or the M. Maybe he believes that what he is doing is just some innocent flirting and joking, but actually he (and the OW) is playing with fire. Many people out there (especially men) still view interactions with the opposite sex as cheating only if it involves sex and/or other physical acts like kissing, petting etc. But this is not true. Emotional Affairs (EA’s) can be just as damaging as Physical Affairs (PA’s). According to Shirley Glass (Author of the book “NOT just friends”) a platonic friendship, edges into an emotional affair when three elements are present:

1. Emotional intimacy. Transgressors share more of their ''inner self, frustrations and triumphs than with their spouses. They are on a slippery slope when they begin sharing the dissatisfaction with their marriage with a co-worker.''

2. Secrecy and deception. ''They neglect to say, 'We meet every morning for coffee.' Once the lying starts, the intimacy shifts farther away from the marriage.''

3. Sexual chemistry. Even though the two may not act on the chemistry, there is at least an unacknowledged sexual attraction.

And according to the above, there is some secrecy and deception from your H and sexual chemistry going on between him and the OW. That’s why they are joking, teasing and flirting with each other.

That is what I thought. That is actually the reason that I brought up the whole discussion on talking and emailing other women. I wanted him to know exactly where I stand. I haven't seen him send any other emails to other women since this discussion, but it doesn't mean that there weren't any. Once I said to him why do you always say that you would never hurt our marriage? Why don't you just say that you haven't ever cheated? Of course he said that he had never cheated, so that didn't really get us anywhere.

On another note, I just found out what the other email address his friend had listed for him. He forwarded something to me that his friend had sent and it had both addresses listed as well as the names listed the same way they are on all the other lists. It was an old address that we shared and closed last year when we switched providers. I checked and it said that the account was closed.

Do you think that marriage counseling would help? I would be willing to try it. I think that I could really use it.

Marriage counseling usually won't help if one person is being dishonest.

Maybe you could "surprise" your husband by visiting him on one of his trips. You could just show up at his room.

Or you could just talk to him and tell him you are feeling insecure, and need access to his computer and phone, with nothing deleted.

Thanks for all your help Believer. I have thought about surprising him, but it is hard to do because I don't have anyone to stay with the kids. I probably won't be able to do it before the summer, so I will have to wait until fall when he starts traveling again. I am meeting him on a trip this summer, but it won't be a surprise. He always tells me that I can come with him on any trip that I want.

What would happen if you asked for access to his phone and computer?

He doesn't really want to, but will let me look at his phone because he knows I have issues with it. He always acts mad if I ask any questions about any of the calls, names, etc. I asked him who a female that he had listed in his Address book and he got so mad. He said that he couldn't remember, but I could call and see if I wanted to.

He could easily delete any calls that he doesn't want me to see. There is no way that I would know if he deleted calls or text messages.

I don't know what he would do about his computer. I have used it on trips a couple of times, but he stays pretty close by.

I haven't handled this well because I have asked him about things that I read on his personal email and now he knows that I read it. I have also asked him about things on his desk, etc. He said that I know all his passwords and that I see everything in his office(It is in our house). He says that he is not hiding anything. Everytime I bring up something new that I have found he says that we can't keep doing this every month or so and I just need to stop obsessing and just trust him. He acts very frustrated with me. It drives me so crazy because in the back of my mind I thinking about the emails to this other woman.