viking, that is exactly the right attitude. She should get a job and all the frills should be cancelled. There should be no negotiation here. She gets NO SAY in the finances because she cannot be trusted. She is so irresponsible that she would put her family at such risk only to accommodate her affair. You would be a fool to allow her any input on something as important as a budget.

Trying to negotiate with a person who is hellbent on taking advantage of you and destroying your family is BAD ADVICE. She does not have your family's best interest at heart so should have no say in the budget as long as she is in the affair. She should never be rewarded for her destructive behavior, but instead, treated to the full consequences of her behavior.

I would suggest protecting your finances and giving her a SET ALLOWANCE that constitutes the LEAST AMOUNT allowed by law. This would involve visiting your attorney and getting a LS drawn up. However, the worst thing you can do is to negotiate with her about YOUR finances. That gives her an inordinate amount of power that she has no right to possess. She has chosen to NOT BE a part of this marriage, remember, so don't give her the benefits a married person should expect. Doing that only protects her from the consequences of her destructive behavior.

Appeasing and protecting her from the consequences of her affair ARE NOT what Plan A is all about. Don't negotiate with a crazy woman, viking, that is only enabling her.

viking, that sounds like the best course of action. She could not remove your kids, however, without a court order herself. But your best bet is get back in that house. With you there, it will be extremely hard for her to carry on her affair. You would also be able to be with your kids, which I am sure would relieve them greatly.

Once you get back in the house, it will be much easier in every aspect. You can do much more effective Plan A if you are THERE to meet her needs and interfere with her affair.

Almost ALL WS's scream about "controlling" when the BS won't allow them to run right over them, so pay it no mind. If she WEREN'T accusing you of being controlling, then you wouldn 't be doing something right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Can a WS have an affair with themselves?

OM#1 contact has been broken off for a month and it was like high school thing

OM#2 is a friend of her's that she basically created a fantasy without him knowing it. I exposed and he is aware of her desires and he is good christian so he is telling to think abou the family.

Her focus right now is on how she feels towards me... how I ruined her "friendships", how I have destroyed our marriage with my previous.

Longhorn and I have been discussing how selfish my WS is and that she is soooo focused on her needs only. So can she be in a fog over herself her needs her interpetation of what has happened??

I get the sense that she is TROLLING for dudes as indicated by her constant emails to OM#2, that is IF her affair has truly ended.


nononono, her focus is on diverting attention to you, to take the attention OFF HER. She needs to demonize you in order to rationalize her affairs. This is CLASSIC WS behavior.

Don't be misled about what is really happening here lest you be led down the WRONG path. You can expect her to manufacture grievances and greatly exaggerate past grievances in order to change the subject from her own destructive behavior. It is a RUSE.

yeah that is what i see and have gotten the similiar response to this from LH.... do I do anything different with plan a when there is no OP... how about OS other self <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know stay strong and follow the right path

Viking, I wouldn't do anything different. In your case, I still think your BEST BET at saving this marriage is getting back in your house! You are operating at great disadvantage by being out. You can much better fill that hole if you are home.

What do you think she would do if you just moved home unannounced?

well I really can't there are laws that once you leave you can't move back without permission, so I am at a real disadvantage.

I am hoping that reality is sinking in bit with my wife and that she will allow me back in with no incident

I wonder if I should just go down the legal path - at least have my lawyer contact my wife and just put some pressure on her... like

Attorney needs your budget
Attorney needs to see your pay stub
Attorney needs to know your attorney's name
Attorney needs to know your parenting plan

Now he can call her and ask her these things, which are all legimate request for separation and divorce, but she would just get a huge reality shock with having to think about this.

If I move in with no incident I believe she will just feel victimize again

No viking, the plan does not change now...IF her affair/s are over then she is in withdrawal and will be throwing a number of rationalizations and justifications your way for quite sometime...that's all very normal...heck, and I'm not beating you up at all here, but you even threw one at us in an earlier post, remember:


Now, viking, the only reason I am even pointing this out to you is so that you may better understand what your wife will be throwing your way...I'm not slammin' ya...it's in your past, but I want you to take a look at what you said, k? Do you honestly think the solution to your getting no affection for years from your wife was a prostitute? Do you think maybe a better solution would have been counseling, or heck, even divorce? I'm sure that you know that, right? So actually, you went to the prostitute because of a selfish choice, right? No one forced you to do that...Just like NOTHING that you have done has forced your wife to have an affair...that was her choice, plain and simple...don't take the blame for something you did not choose...and NO, you did not force her hand based on your previous poor choice...We all have free will to make proper moral choices...I know you understand that viking, I just want you to be prepared for the load of excuses that she will give you...there is NO excuse...a choice is a choice...

viking, I still believe that you would be taking the right path in going for sole custody of your children...I understand when you say this,


However, viking, that does NOT ring true right now because of this...


And viking, don't fool yourself, kids are very bright and on some level they know what's going on and they know it's not right-they need an adult who will validate this for them...Do you understand the terrible life lessons that your girls are learning from this?
Check out this article by Jennifer Harley Chalmers on what infidelity does to children... MB Article

Mrs. W

Hey, Viking. Friend, you're confusing me. Here on this thread you're talking as if you can get back in the home with a magistrate's order and then do some more Plan A stuff. On your other thread, you seem almost desperate to get Plan B under way before you go to the magistrate. You want to do it today?

Pardner, what's happening? Are you okay?

I understand the accumulated stress of constantly being at odds with your WW is terrible. Plan B is partially designed to insulate you from all the pain and misery before it becomes too much. Is that where you are now? Talk to us, okay?

Sorry LH... i was just hashing out different ideas...

Its still the same... Continue to try and get in to the house civily but come wednesday I am talkin to the lawyer.

So my question AGAIN is, what would happen if you just moved home? Just packed your back, went home and said "honey, I'm home!"


None of that will make a DENT. What will make a dent is a court order that you can come home. But first go home and see if you can get in that way. Then, if she calls the police and has you tossed, you can get the court order.

Viking,

I think what MelodyLane is saying is that REGARDLESS of the LEGALITIES of the situation, what would your wife actually DO if you just moved back home? Would she call the police?

You have been continually avoiding answering this question in all your threads.

Legalities are one thing, her actions are what is important here.

Hmmmmmmm...Viking, we talked about this early on in another thread, I think. Do I recall you having broached this already with your attorney and having been advised not to attempt to just go back home? Can you refresh my memory?

Simple if I go back and I am not invited and she ask me to leave, and I refuse her request...I will be arrested for domestic criminal trespassing.

I was venting my options earlier, there is having a magistrate order me in or going down the path of a custody hearing.

or

she can invite me back in and I start Plan A'ing at home

But WILL she ask you to leave and if you don't WILL she call the police?

p.s. Viking, please tell me you understood what i said about "negotiating" finances with her. That should NOT HAPPEN, my friend, because it is ENABLING. Did you read my post?

Well, then how about this? Call her up and tell her you are ready to come home now. Tell her you cannot afford to support both homes. See what she says.

If she refuses to allow you back in your home, ask your attorney to get a court order allowing you back into your home.

viking, the longer you are out, the harder it is going to be to pick up the pieces. The sooner you are home, the sooner you can work on your marriage. Now would be a great time, too, since it seems her most recent OM has rebuffed her.

Either way, I would not sit around and wait for the spirit to move an entitlement minded, selfish WS to allow her H back into his own home. You should not allow a fogged out WS to dictate your life and that of your children. As it is, that is what is happening NOW. I would suggest taking control of the situation and getting back in there. Don't put yourself at her mercy.

Ahhhhh, okay. I kinda thought the consequences were something one would like to avoid if possible. You’ve evaluated the chance of your WW calling the police in that situation and decided she would, is that correct?

Okay, so where you stand now is waiting through the weekend to see if she'll respond to your letter where you talked about the family suffering if you can't combine the households again, right? If she won't do that, you get the magistrate's order--which is a low-level kind of thing to me--and then you move back in anyway, if I'm understanding things correctly.

Once back home, can you do a little more Plan A? Truly, it might have big rewards down the line if you have the stamina for just a bit more.

Then, if she tries to leave with the children, you forbid her to take them. Children can’t be removed from their home just on a whim. In NC, isn’t there a possibility of a restraining order prohibiting her from removing the children from the home? If she won’t see the light, you’re going to go the legal option to get sole custody (or whatever the proper term is in your state) based on what your attorney advises?

Is this sort of how you see this playing out over the next few days or weeks?

1.5 years ago, my daughter wanted to go live w/ my x. We've been apart since she was 4. She was 13 at the time. My x concocted a parenting plan. Tried to bully me. I dragged my feet. I knew something was up.

Now, granted this situation was seriously different from what you were proposing.

If I had agreed w/ x's plan, I would have lost my house. It was that financially devastating. I fought for dear life but I knew I was fighting something I couldn't see. Something reall was being hidden.

Turns out, my d had been sexually abused by a family member on my side of the family and she was truly trying to get away from that stuff.

Had she gone to live w/ her father, this would never have come out. She never would have gotten the therapy she needed.

She no longer is a danger to herself. She no longer cuts. She no longer has contact w/ the perpetrator. I no longer have contact w/ my sister's family - the perp was a member of that family. We are SO much happier now - everyone has been dragged into therapy and we are doing incredibly well. (As for the perp and his family, I can't say. He was ordered to undergo a psychosexual evaluation and follow the recommendations based on the results. Who knows about my s, bil, or niece. They would agree to therapy only if they were to gain financially from doing so and it required that they never have to look seriously at themselves.)

As good as their father would try to be, he would never have gotten her the help I got her. NEVER.

I fought the idea of court. I fought the idea of her moving. I fought to get her treatment. And there is no way he could have proven me unfit. NO WAY. Fortunately, his minister is the one who told him to not fight but to negotiate.

Funny thing is, we had negotiated, between the two of us, a more liberal visitation schedule only hours before she left a suicide note on her locker at school. She never knew what the agreement was. It went out the door the day she was discharged from the hospital. She has never expressed a desire to move in w/ him since.

So, there are times when one parent - or the other - needs to stand and fight.

cinderella, I agree. viking needs to fight for his children. Fathers have many more rights today than they have in the past and are just as capable as women at parenting. And the risk of his children being molested by his wife's various train of boyfriends is great.

Protect your kids, viking, you are all they have!