I am feeling like I don’t want my husband anymore. Althought the thought of not having him is difficult. I don’t know what to do. I have tried since January to make things right. Now that things are in a negotiable stage, I don’t want to work on things any more. I don’t want to telll him my feelings. I don’t want to tell him about my day. I don’ t know what I want H has still not become remorseful for what he has done. This is the largest problem. I wrote him this letter the other day, but didn’t send it. I think that it shows what is missing in my relationship. Although, MB states that I should be asking myself what I have been doing to make H happy. I have been doing a lot. I may have been doing things to him that I would have liked and not showing him love the right way, but overall he said he know that I have always loved him. I think my husband is in a serious depression and has created me as the cause of all his problems not that life has just handed him a bad deck. I don’’t understand why someone can say they haven’t loved you for ten years:


I first must apologize for bringing this up again. You know that when I want something my brain is completely consumed with that thing. In my head, I am thinking that I can’t feel that you haven’t loved me for ten years and that this has been a show. I wouldn’t be able to go on with you if this were the case. I need to know if this is a true feeling or not??? This is a question I need answered.

I think on your part you are going to need to do some soul searching to figure this out. When you had the Affair it caused you to think in a certain way for you to be able to do what you have done. I know that it has caused you great guilt whether you believe it or not. By telling yourself that I wasn’t someone that you loved, you were able to soothe some feelings of guilt. You also soothe your feelings of guilt by making excuses about my character…like I need you to be with you at all times, I was controlling, I was difficult to talk to. By doing this, you have fooled yourself into thinking that the reason that you had an affair is justified.

The reason for the affair was far more simple - you needed to escape the pain that you were suffering in your life. Amy provided you the comfort that you needed to feel better about yourself and life. To me that is that. I have come to terms with the affair for that reason only. If you think that I am wrong in thinking this, please set me straight. I have two ideas constantly in my mind: #1- Are the things he is saying (i.e. I haven’t loved you, I put on an act for 10 years, you made me feel scared, you are not my friend, you were controlling, I gave you the ring because you wanted it and nothing else) true, or are they things that he is saying because he is confused and trying to justify his actions. #2 This thought is the only reason that I don’t believe the things that you have said are so. You have also said, “ If you tell me that I loved you then that was the truth,” “ I am a magician. I made my happy family disappear,” “I love you, ” “there was a time that I would have done anything to see you wear that ring,” “I have given my life to make you happy,” “I gave you the ring for the right reasons” – These things show that you love me and are remorseful. A lot of your actions show that you do love and care for me. I see you trying to make me happy. I see you doing different things to make a better relationship.

Truly I am confused which to believe, your actions or your words?
I want you to know that I am a realistic person who understands that we have had problems in our marriage. I understand that neither one of us was getting what the other needed to feel really loved and appreciated. This is a problem that would need to be fixed. Other problems in our marriage also need to be addressed and fixed. This is not what I am talking about when I ask you, have you loved me. I am talking about the feelings that you feel for me regardless of the problems in our marriage

I have been in the same relationship with you for 12 years and I know that we have had a great deal of good times. For you to say that you were playing an act for ten years is horrible. If this really is the case, what you did over the past ten years is more painful than I can ever handle. I will not be able to continue with the idea that I was some thing in your life that you wished to please in order to not to hurt my feelings. I cannot think that you would bring children into this world just for the sake of not hurting someone’s feelings. How disgusting! I won’t continue with someone that says he hasn’t ever been in love with me and has put on a lie for ten years. I know this in my head. I would love to think that this is a time of confusion for you and you are still working things out in your head. If this is the case, I understand that this will take you a while to come to terms with what you have done and the pain that you have caused the children and me. I want and need to know that you love and care for me because when you look at me – just me not the problems that come with me. Do you like the way that I am when we are happily together? Do you like me as a person? I do understand that the things and problems that we have affect this feeling and that is why you need to separate the two and see if me as a person is who you want. If not, there is no reason to move forward.

I love you enough to want you to find someone who you can love, not just settle for me because I am the mother of your children. I need not settle for someone that only loves me because I am the mother of his child. I need to be loved for the right reasons and you need to love for the right reasons.

If I am someone who you could love and cherish forever, the problems can and will be fixed. I need to understand you and your thoughts for me to feel safe enough to love you again. You see when I feel myself getting closer to you, I get scared. That is why we may spend a few days together and be great and then all of a sudden you come home to what you call “mopey me.” I am not moping, I am simply confused- not mad, angry, or upset. Not wanting you to have done something different. I just need some support to know that we are moving in the right direction and you are with me. I need to know that you are with me on the same path. Otherwise, why should I walk down the path?


I need you more than anything to understand what I am saying and be able to tell me the answers that I need honestly.



I haven't sent this yet, but am considering it. I feel like I am begging for his love. My WH is toooo "tough" for admitting his faults and fixing the problem. He may lose me first. This scares me for the both of us and our children. HELP

don't send it

talk about it here

i have been posting here for awhile and reading a ton of stories, but have not had much help.

Why don't send it?

Talk about what specific things here?

I am truly losing love for H daily! my Love bank is close to empty and his response to fixing our marriage is to just be happy. What a thourough plan huh? What is next for me?

DO I stay or go?

Should I start over with plan A to show him I care- he already knows. I feel liek it is his turn to do something, but mister hide all feelings is having trouble saying anything about our problems except he is tired of talking about our problems.

I keep picturing myself with a man who loves children and wants to have more. Who manages all of the finances. A man who openly says all of his feelings. All opposite from my h. Oh my H is a wonderful DAd, but doesn't want more and struggles with other peoples children. I am a teacher.

because your stated goal
[color:"red"]I need you more than anything to understand what I am saying and be able to tell me the answers that I need honestly.
[/color] is not likely to come to fruition if he reads this letter ... unless of course

you have never told him these things before

~and~

he is ready to be open with you

do you think he is?

Pep

there is so much in your letter

it would be great if this stuff could be dealt with in marriage therapy

is that possible?

Pep

I have been to Mc twice and they drove us further apart. H was hostile after and wanted a divorce.

I guess I am having trouble dealing with the honesty of his feelings.

cfc

You need to step back and stop pushing so hard I think.

BTW i am formerly yearsofhurt. Notice I changed my name.

You can keep asking for what you want but really what does that accomplish.

Here is my thinking. When FWW and I were together about 2 years or so her friend at work got flowers from her boyfriend all the time. They were newly dating we had a kid and money was tight. My wife kept bringing it up and when we had some money I sent some flowers. Well she said "you only got them for me because I kept asking and telling you about my friend, you would have never done it on your own." She was right. The flowers although nice didn't mean that much since she had to keep asking and dropping hints.

It is what we will go through if we keep asking. Once they do give it to us we will say they only did it because we kept asking.

I have tried something new the last two weeks. But my FWW is not in the fog.

I gave and asked nor expected anything. I am getting more then I expected.

First let me say I didn't read the letter. I only read the first part of the post. My WW also told me (and everyone else in her support group) that she never loved me in 9 years. She only ever found love when she met OM. She asked her friends how it was possible that she could stay with a man she didn't love. Long story short - I don't know if it is true or not but I doubt that it is. If I did believe it was true, I would already be divorced. Even so, it still bothers me and I think her saying that has hurt me more than the affair itself. I think this is something WS's try to convince themselves of to help rationalize the affair and avoid the guilt. If you truly loved someone, it would tear you apart (I think) to cheat on them. Solution - you never loved them. That was simple enough.

You can't believe everything out of the wayward's mouth. In fact, you can't believe much of it at all. They lie to you and, more importantly, they lie to themselves.

You said he is too tough to fix his problem. From a practical standpoint, what problem does he have right now? I ask this because I have a WW in probably a very similar mental state as your WH and I can't see that she has much of any problem at all. Her life is pretty good. I wish I could live like she does.

Too tough or not, if WH hopes that the A will just go away, it might but you will go away with it. I won't go into my withdrawal theory but I think BS's experience their own withdrawal for the spouse after Dday. During that withdrawal we desperately want to save the marriage. After the withdrawal is over, we begin to ask ourselves why. If the love bank has been emptied, we have no reason. I think you should find a way to get you two into counseling before that happens. You cannot afford to stay in Plan A too long.

:::::When FWW and I were together about 2 years or so her friend at work got flowers from her boyfriend all the time. They were newly dating we had a kid and money was tight. My wife kept bringing it up and when we had some money I sent some flowers. Well she said "you only got them for me because I kept asking and telling you about my friend, you would have never done it on your own."

Hurtingless, your comment is kinda symbolic of the whole problem of long term relationships vs. affairs. My FWH bought me some cheap bobbles whilst on a work junket to Africa just days before he started having an A (money wasn't tight). I thought they were pretty ordinary and put them in a drawer and forgot about them. He never bought me anything much coz money used to be tight and I didn't like him choosing for me on our very limited budged (if we had to spend money I wanted it to be on something I needed - not something I had to pretend to be delighted with). Then as the years went by and we acquired more money we never really changed the pattern. Anyway as a remourseful WS H, on his own iniative, bought me seriously classy diamond earrings, Channel no. 5, a bigger diamond for my finger, more flowers than a funeral home, flight tickets to go with him on work trips etc etc ETC. And, I never once looked down my nose at his choice. All the rules change after infidelity in our M.

It's an unusual husband that buys his wife flowers or gifts without prompting or an ulteria motive. Coz normal marriages do not generate this kind of gesture - which is sad but the whole problem of long term relationships is their complacency to what they have in each other. What cfc is describing in her H is a man who is still under the power of the new short lasting "in love" feelings and he's not sorted out the difference between attachment and infatuation. My H sorted it out very quickly after d-day (as in seconds after I found out) and decided to invest BIG time in me again. But he hadn't been too long in the A when he got sprung. For those who've invested a lot in the affair they get a very warped view of their marriage vs. the A.

Btw have to tell my joke about flowers. Two women sitting at home chatting on Friday afternoon and the husband comes home from work early carrying a bunch of flowers for his wife. The wife see's him coming down the drive and says to her girlfriend "oh no, I suppose that means I'll have to have my legs in the air all weekend"? And the girl friend says "haven't you got a vase"?

AN

"During that withdrawal we desperately want to save the marriage. After the withdrawal is over, we begin to ask ourselves why. If the love bank has been emptied, we have no reason. I think you should find a way to get you two into counseling before that happens. You cannot afford to stay in Plan A too long. "

I have been posting ideas here trying to get out what you said so simply.

You are right, I am in withdrawl and have lost many love units. I am scared to lose him when reality hits, but if I listen to my heart I want him to go away and stop the hurt. I am not in plan A, but am not sure how far into recovery we are. We have agreed to the MB contract in the five steps to romance book. We exchanged wedding rings (which H hasn't worn in 8 years) to show our commitment to the plan. My ring is broken how ironic. It got smushed during a softball game. H says I need to tell him if I want it fixed. It is almost metaphoric of our relationship.It is broken and my decision to fix or not. He says Just let him know when and how to fix it and he will do it. Not becase he loves me, but just to make me happy. I wish H would stop doing things JUST to make me happy! I wish he would do them because making me happy makes him happy.

I feel the same as less hurts story. This is exactly what i am talking about:
"You only got them for me because I kept asking and telling you about my friend, you would have never done it on your own." She was right. The flowers although nice didn't mean that much since she had to keep asking and dropping hints.

"It is what we will go through if we keep asking. Once they do give it to us we will say they only did it because we kept asking."- This is definately true. If H (not sure if I am ready to call him FWH until he accepts responsibility for his actions), continues to do things to "fix" the marriage I will continue to feel this way because I keep asking. Even when I don't ask though I feel this way because he knows I am not acting the same. I am in withdrawl- definately.

I wanted him soooo badly, and now I could care less. He likes the relationship more this way. I can't stand it because I know I am not being caring. H has reached out, but not too far verbally. I think he is afraid to admit feelings and show that he cares. He wasn't able to attach to the OW. OW told him that he needed to open up more. He said he didn't feel emotional attachment to her- she reminded me of the old me. Funny, carefree...not stressed and overworked with household responsibilities, kids, and lack of time with H. She deliberately hunted him down even though she knew he was married. H only had two #@#^%$ encounters with OW. The rest was her calling and talking about her H who she said couldn't fufill her sexually. OW would tell him to tell her more, but then he didn't phone conversations were always 3 minutes or less and several times a day. H said she called way too much for him. They broke off SA before I confronted him, but he was still talking to her on the phone.

I definately know that he is remorseful but will not admit.

I can relate to anyname, " Anyway as a remourseful WS H, on his own iniative, bought me seriously classy diamond earrings, Channel no. 5, a bigger diamond for my finger, more flowers than a funeral home, flight tickets to go with him on work trips etc etc ETC. And, I never once looked down my nose at his choice. All the rules change after infidelity in our M."


Since the Affair ended he has bought me: new skis, a fish tank, a dirt bike (he wants me to join him with this, which is not my stlye, but I have told him it sounds like fun), a new camper, an car to pull it, new movies, local wine and chocolate weekly.....and much more! I am not a materialistic person and these things do nothing but show me that he is feeling guilt, but unable to tell me.


I am Wanting a H who is able to admit his feelings!

SOmetimes I think (I have become more spiritual as this has occured) that I am here on earth to help H because all of his problems are so sad. I can't imagine having to run to someone else because I can't find comfot in my spouse. I would have let him know before it got that far. I can't imagine holding in all the pain and not expressing it-even if it was hard. I would have to get it out or it would eat me alive.

Thank you to all that have responded and are going to respond. I think just writing on this site helps make my ideas clearer! It gives me hope for a better tomorrow and allows me to see that there is support when I need it. Any suggestions are much appreciated.

cfc,
The things your husband has bought you since the affair ended don't sound like gifts meant to "buy you off." They all sound to me like attempts to rebuild your relationship by creating opportunities for recreational companionship. I know you're longing for him to share his feelings. But what if engaging in recreational companionship helped him feel close enough to you to share his feelings?

CFC

One more thing you need to really think about. Do you want your husband or the perfect husband?

Part of this process is compromise. I know there are things my FWW would like me to do but it is not part of my makeup as a person. If he was never lovey dovey then what makes you think he will be now? Because he had an A.

Second do you really need those things? You want to hear him say "I am sorry" At some point he had to say I am sorry and you know what that and a dollar get you on a bus. He needs to show you. The things he bought for you he probably did because he knew you liked them He is showing you that he can do things for you and he knows what you like.

My wife likes the nail salon so now I get her gift certificates there instead of guessing at something really impressive. She is impressed that I knew enough about her to get her something she likes and really will use.

Give him a little slack. Focus on the positives and wait to see what else happens. Maybe he is doing the things you want but just not big enough for you right now.

No pointing fingers at you by the way.

Formerly yearsofhurt.

::::Since the Affair ended he has bought me: new skis, a :::::::::::fish tank, a dirt bike (he wants me to join him with this, which is not my stlye, but I have told him it sounds like fun), a new camper, an car to pull it, new movies, local wine and chocolate weekly.....and much more! I am not a materialistic person and these things do nothing but show me that he is feeling guilt, but unable to tell me.


Now this is much better. this is not a "buy off" but a clumpsy attempt to give you what he thinks will please you. It is his way of telling you he loves you. cfc, you probably don't know that men (the majority of men) are absolutely hopeless at talking/being emotionally connected. I think this is what most BWs come to realise in the end and they do compromise because finally they work out that what they seek from their FWH's just isn't in them. Not in your H or mine or CV's etc. One or two come thru with incredible emotional insights but usually they are betrayed husbands. BH's are the ones who know how to be/talk from their hearts. But most FWH's? - no clue. I put my H thru so many discussions and eventually he figured out he needed to contribute meaningfully. OMG, his attempts were so inadeqate - it was almost laughable. He would say to me, tell me what I have to do to get us thru this, anything, just tell me. (bear in mind I'm receiving truck loads of material gifts and he's doing ALL the housework, and fussing over me like I've only got a month to live). So I say: I want words, coz I went all those yrs without material possessions, they don't mean anything to me. And poor H would say, it wasn't him - he could try to say stuff but he would feel so forced, so phony, like he was making stuff up because it was what I wanted to hear.

This went on for many many MANY months. He eventually attempted several letters that for him were quite good. (he's not a creative writer at the best of times) But he tried so hard. And I don't have to tell you that a nice letter is great to receive but a BW needs a whole bunch of emotional interaction and a letter soon wears off.

In the end, you to and fro in the emotional negotiations until he squeezes out all there is in him (which is very little) and you decide to give him a nine out of ten for effort but basically you know you will never get to hear what you want to hear coz your H isn't capable of it. You have to look at what he is offering you and translate it into what it means in your language. Don't think of them as material things but as emotional gestures of his deep remorse and feelings of wanting to win you back. Oh one thing my H said once was that he felt an obsessiveness about having me back. (I didn't go anywhere but you know what I mean... I was gone from him emotionally)


And can I say something to you about the bike? Try it! Since d-day I have tried a lot of new things. Jumping into icy lakes just for the fun of it - just to be crazy (I'm 53 yrs old). I now ride a bike, a lot - but didn't before. I was a lap swimmer when the A started but now I compete with H in ocean races - and generally I live in the moment and not think about the future. I very much recognise the stage that you are at. For a long time I just didn't care about H or the M - now I don't think about it - whether I love him or not etc, I just live and try to have fun with my good friend (my H). Something inside us shuts down after being betrayed. We freeze over inside. A self protection mechanism until we are able to unfreeze - which happens very slowly. Don't worry about love. It's VERY over rated. Just put one foot in front of the other, every day, plodding along, feeling what you feel and not denying it and know that others have been thru EXACTLY what you are going thru and they have come back to a workable relationship with their WS. I have a lot of hope for your situation from the fact that your FWH is investing in you. This is an excellent sign. You don't have to worry about what you are feeling too much. You are where you should be. Trust yourself that you are having a "normal" reaction to a very big personal trauma. You will slowly receive understanding and a sense of direction. Go thru the motions until you get a sense of where you are going.

Hope I am not too cryptic. Time provides the answer, because with time, we put more and more of ourselves back together... and the good news is, we (BS) come out the other end, new people. It's like a very long arduous (sp?) journey but when you get there you are almost glad you took it. Weird huh? Well if you think that's weird, go on a cancer sufferers website and see how many of them say they are glad they got it coz of what they have discovered about themselves and life ....

It really is true that we grow from adversity - and "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger". At some point, you will understand that this is true for you. Until that point these words will mean nothing to you.

warm thoughts go to you and all who are where you are at...

AN

hurting yes, "One more thing you need to really think about. Do you want your husband or the perfect husband?"- in response : YES! I want the perfect H

I guess I expect H to meet the needs that I didn't have met before I began to push him away before the A.

Another thing is I think that I expect him to do this because he wants to go above and beyond to meet my needs. I for the first time in my marriage need to feel that H wants me as a W not because of the children. I don't know how to get past this.


The reason that I am up tonight is because H and I had a fight over sex and I am having trouble sleeping. I hate going to sleep with unresolved issues and H could fall asleep if a tradgedy happend. i hate his unconcern for my lack of sleep and he hates my unconcern for the lack of his in order to solve the problem so that we can both sleep. Really the problem could be easily solved, but H keep LB about me being difficult. I admit I am at times, but the LB makes it tough for me to compromise.


Oh another thought (sorry I am jumping around from thought to thought), I think that curoius is correct in his assumption, but has difficulty in taking the time to do these things. I have had the camper a month and no family trips. All I get is complaints about having to clean the fish tank, but he will not teach me how to use the suction. The dirt bike has been fun, but we have yet to go anywhere togetehr to ride. Any response to us spending time together has a response of okay, I guess, BUT I need to do this and this and it will take a lot of time and ......I am not sure....and What about this ....


H seems to have a serious depression before and after the A, he doesn't want to do anything. This weekend we were invited out boating, jeeping, to two cook outs and the only thing that he wanted to do was bike with the kids and I and visit my father. That is it. LAter he complain that I am the one who prevents him from doing "fun" things. I will do anything from dirt bikes to jeeping to riding bikes, or hiking or sitting and doing nothing. I wish he would choose to do things that he likes so that he is happy.


Sorry to ramble. I just habve soo many things going through my head at one time.

CFC

Then there you go. You can search high and low and you will never find the perfect H. You might find a better one then the one you have but you might not. Reminds me of a joke.

This old guy is sitting at a bar next to a young guy. This really hot blonde walks up and orders a drink. The young guy almost falls out of his chair at how hot she is and proceeds to tell the old man about it. After the young guy goes on and on about how perfect she was the old guy finally says "You know what there are probably at least a dozen guys that have had that and they all got tired of her eventually."

Nobody is perfect and that is an unrealistic expectation on your part. What you should expect is that they do much more good for you then they do bad to you. The A is a huge event no doubt but it does not define you or him.

Start a journal and note every little nice little thing he does for you. Stop thinking about what he doesn't do for a while. Just what he does.

I am no where close to recovery but I do see the little things now and they add up to a lot.

</brief threadjack>

hurtingless,
I don't get the joke. What am I missing?

</end threadjack>

thanks you are right, you maybe just unlocked the key to our problems. I think that may have been a big problem in the marriage before the A too, now that I think of it. He says that I never appreciated all that he has done for me.

I like the idea of writing down all the nice things that he does, maybe I will appreciate him more.

You keep saying that you are not in recovery. When does someone finally start recovery?

Oh and about the perfect thing, I like the idea that MB says you can have a better marriage so I guess I had in my mind- perfect. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

oh and years of hurt I am glad you are hurting less! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Curious. Didn't say it was the funniest joke. The joke is that no matter how perfect someone seems on the outside there are plenty of people who didn't think the same thing once they were with her.

I have no idea when recovery is going to start. Remember it was less then two weeks ago that my FWW was finally honest with me about the A. 3 years after the fact.

I think we will be in recovery when I see my wife make a commitment to start undoing some of the damage she has done. She is spending a lot less. She is now radically honest about everything. Things are going better.

Right now I need a break the last 3 years of knowing but not knowing have been hard. I got what I needed radical honesty now I have to figure out what is next.

I have realized a lot of things that annoy me about my wife annoyed me before. I loved her for those things. LOL.

I realized I wasn't the happiest with her before the A but I wasn't miserable. I realized I was reading into everything, thinking she should no better. I think I expected her to be on her best behaviour and I should know better.

So there you go. I am accepting the person that I married back flaws and all. I knew about those flaws before I said I do. I am not including the A in those flaws I still need to see some more to make me want to continue.

I think I am in the same boat- have found out almsot ready for recovery, but need H to pur forth a little effort to see a reason for recovery. Some dayd I think that I am ready for recovery, but then i am not.

I never saw any of these traits with WH I think that he does a good job of sheltering his feelings.

How are you kids handling this???

DO they know what is going on?

I emotionally have trouble with meeting their needs lately I have been very snappy. School is out on Friday and my plan is to dedicate the summer to them and spend only napptime working on my business- if at all possible.


I haven;t began to unleash the feeling of resentment I have to my husband for doing this to the kids. I can't even read the what affaird teach children blurp as i am scared that it will make this more difficult. In someways i am sweeping it under the rug. Better to be dealt with after recovery when hipefully H feels horrible for what he did.


Still the idea of my H, "who saved himself for me", having an Affair swimms in my mind daily. When will that ever pass or will it. Will I bbe able to forget about it most of the time eventually? I can;t even look at him some days.