Its been 3 years today since my wh's stupidity realigned my world. I now look at the world through affair colored glasses. I guess this is more of a vent then anything else, I have no one to talk to about this mess. In 3 years we have done "parts" of the Marriage Builders program, my wh wanted to stop because it made him feel bad about himself. Nothing has really changed for me, I'm still not a priority in his life, our marriage is not a priority and he still does things that make me want to scream.
The positives: my children continue to have both parents available to them 24 hours a day. I still have the luxury of being with my children full time, being involved in their lives.
The negatives: at the back of my mind is always this simmering anger, I ask myself monthly did I do the right thing by staying with someone who seems to feel no remorse and doesn't want to change.

Has anyone ever gone on to make a happy life for themselves even if their xwh remained a jerk?

I am asking myself that question, and am only 1 year into the H*** that is a broken marriage. I fear exactly what you are saying, and I don't know if I will be able to last that long. If my H does not want to recover, I will not force it, but I also will not wait. Have you reached a breaking point in your mind yet? I guess that's when a decision will be made. My H is very self centered and views relationships in a black and white sense. Either you are happy or your aren't. I have very little hope right now. I'm so sorry to see that someone else on this forum is having this same problem. I guess the answer to your final questions is 'yes', but that doens't mean that the xwh is in your life anymore.

Jenna

When did it start creeping back on you?

I am coming up on the three year anniversary as well. I got you one better though. I found out two weeks ago all of the details of the A. Now I have new details to process this year. IE. She had SF on my sons birthday and SF on our anniversary. Plus her mom is coming into town on another day that she did that.

Each anniversary of the A I am dealing with new details I never knew before and this year is no different. FWW felt fine with not being honest for almost 3 years. Oh ewll.

So I am venting with you. I hope I handle it well but I am doubting myself. Plus each of the last 2 years FWW acted even less remorseful like my pain should be gone already and I was trying to make her feel bad because I was feeling sad.

I have a happy life now. I focus on myself and the things I can change. I cannot change her just the way I react to her. I will let her be the source of my happiness if she choses but I will no longer let her be the source of my unhappiness.

hurtingless: that's a great thought about no longer allowing her to be the source of your unhappiness. It really made me stop and think. I wish I could feel that way, it may be something to work towards. My ws also feels like I should be over it. This afternoon when he realized why I was upset he actually told me to "get over it". Well there we go, that helped.

tempinsanity: I guess I haven't reached that breaking point, I'm still here. I am self aware enough to realize that I have many reasons for still being here, not the least of which is the fantasy that he will wake up and realize I'm worth some effort.

J1

OMG, to wake up and 'feel' appreciated again is dreamy! Being worth the slightest effort, at this point, would bring me some hope. I am currently 'in it' to recover a loving, enduring relationship with H, and to hold a good family together. When my reasons run out, I think we will too, as I seem to be the glue in this life together.

Would giving them Joseph's letter perhaps help?

Joseph's Letter
_______________________________

To Whomever,

I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box.

You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.

(end of Joseph's Letter)

The old GET OVER IT. LOL

I am over it. I am over letting it control who I am. I just posted "feeling better." It was catharctic(sp)

I used to be Years of hurt. Not anymore.

I have now decided I am the most important person on this whole planet.

Without me what do I have. NOTHING!!

I am a much happier person now that I realize that.

I had a great weekend. My son played in the allstar game and at the end he told me I was the best daddy in the world. And do you know what I AM! My FWW told he how proud she was of me because all the parents thought I was the greatest with the kids.

This whole thing stinks sometimes but I am just going to spray some fabreeze on it. I am in control and I like it!!!!

Resiliant: Thank you for posting Joseph's letter, I gave my husband something like that when I first found out. He was always very willing to tell me ALL the painful details.

My bigger problems now stem from things like, I needed him to show me he cared enough for me to finish the Marriage Builders program, we went to the weekend conference and then never did the follow up work. I get so angry when he talks about the fact that he wants more sex, and he had an affair because he wanted more sex. I pointed out to him once that if he had put the amount of time he spent talking - texting - and planning special times with her into our marriage we would have been having more sex. He doesn't seem to care that he puts no effort into talking with me, spending time with me, meeting my needs but I'm supposed to be interested in - actually excited about - more/different/unique whatever sex.

I am angry now not because I don't know everything but because he doesn't seem to realise he was half the problem and I can't fix the problem by myself.

J1

Jenna

Quite frankly that seems to be common.

For some reason the WS doesn't see, believe, or acknowledge the simple fact that we now know what they are capable of when they want something. IE the A and fullfilling the OP's needs. It obviously took a lot of energy on the WS part to spend time with the OP and if they put the same energy into the A as they did the marriage the A would fail as well. But they have the blinders on that says the OP filled needs that you wouldn't. On the other hand the OP filled the WS needs because their needs were being met as well.

Then there seems to be the "if you(the BS) would have.... I wouldn't have had the A." argument on the BS side. So you the BS decide to start working on your faults but you also start to realize that the WS has faults too. Because the WS is not concerned with what you want or need, as proven by the A, they don't think they need to change. The OP likes me for who I am and so should you. The fact that you think I have any culpability in the deterioration of our M is ridiculous(sp).

Well of course the OP likes them for who they are. What bigger ego stroke is there in the world then to be chosen over someones own spouse. The WS is willing to give up everything for me. Who wouldn't like that.

I know where you are coming from when you say he doesn't realize he is half the problem. My FWW came home with a list of reasons for her A. In our second MC session the MC asked us both "do you want this marriage to work?" Stupid me I answered first and said yes. She answered second and said "I don't know this marriage has been so bad for so long I don't know if I want it anymore." Now up until that point she had told me I was the greatest even after admitting the A.

She gave the MC the reasons it was so bad. I didn't kiss her when I walked through the door from work. I didn't ask her how her day was. We didn't spend anytime together. I called her a name five years prior.

I basically said fine I can take care of those is there anything else. She said no. Fine I drive home between 1-2 hours everynight after work. Because we cannot afford to get me a new car I don't have AC and my driver side window doesn't roll down. When I get home I need to go potty real bad. I walk in and want to go potty and wash my face because it was hot in my car. The minute I walk through the door I have two kids attached to my legs. I tell them daddy has to go potty. I go in wash my face take a pee and then get out of my sweatty clothes. Kids reattached to my legs. If you really want a kiss when I come home why don't you get up and give me one. You don't have two kids attached to your legs. I think I now see your point though someone should have been making an effort to give someone a kiss. I am now adding that to my list of why things have been so bad for so long. You didn't even make an effort to show me how much you appreciated how hard I worked so you could stay home with the kids. You are right we should have kissed every night when I came home but since I had 100 lbs hanging off of my legs, a full bladder it would have been easier for you to make your way to me then vice versa.

The asking how her day was was easier. I said you call me between 3-6 times a day and I call you when I get in my car on the way home and we talk then. She tried to say I did all the talking and she never did. She forgot the MC we were going to met us before the A and that was something we discussed. Her calling so much. He called her out and said thats not what you said before your A. You acknowledged you needed to call him a lot and he said because you do you don't have anything to talk about when he gets home.

The third one was easy too. I made my oldest do his homework when he got home and made my youngest go to bed without us in there every night. Boom we had time together. BTW my FWW was supposed to get the homework done and guess who started laying in bed with my youngest against my objections which turned into us having to lay down with him everynight. You guessed it FWW did that.

So when I brought up the kid thing she turned it back on me and said "oh so it is all my fault". I said is what all your fault. The fact that we didn't spend anytime together. I said no it's the kids fault why don't you tell them you had an A because they made it impossible for you to spend time with me. So now I undid the problems that made it impossible for us to spend time together.

Now I was finished with my list so I asked her now to change some things. Every time I did she said "if I am so bad why don't you find someone else?" Wait a cotton picking minute now. I made an effort to change the things you didn't like I never said "if I am so bad why didn't you find someone else?"

Problem was the things that bothered me were bigger then these things. They were harder to change. I needed to change to make her happy but she shouldn't have to change because she was the victim.

I have now realized this is what I am dealing with. It makes it easier. It makes me more patient because I do truly love her. I want to give her time to change because my changes were easy. It also makes it hard for her because she realizes now that she was more then 50% of the problem and I never had an A.

Sorry this is so long.

We had ANOTHER conversation about it last night. I tried to explain to him that I can't "get over" this on my own. I didn't create this and I can't fix it. He said that he feels like I will throw this up in his face forever, it's not that so much as nothing has changed for me.

Hurtingless: I know what you mean about wanting change, apparently my ws's affair partner was able to spend her entire day thinking about sex. I have multiple children, a home, our families, our business, his health, and other commitments so I can't, I am being compared to her. The sad thing in our situation is that when we were doing the MB program things were so much better, for both of us. He didn't like how some of the sections made him feel (like he had made mistakes) The story of the kids clinging to your leg rang a bell for me also, my ws would go on 10 day business trips leaving me with 4 children and then not understand how I didn't want to have phone sex - I have children clinging to me, I am being mom and dad...

"He didn't like how some of the sections made him feel (like he had made mistakes)"

Funny when I first found out about my wife's A I found this website. I pointed out the good advice that was here in the infidelity section. I asked her to read it because a lot of what we were going through was here. She came one time to the website. I asked why she didn't keep reading what was here because it makes a lot of sense. She said she didn't like being called an adulterer or a cheater or anything else a person that has an A would be called. Because it made her feel bad. She said it made her feel like a bad person and she is not a bad person she is a good person that made some bad decesions. WOW. I said well I don't know how things will get better if you refuse to read anything that uses those words. If those words weren't in there would you read it or if they called you a good person that made a mistake instead? She said probably. So I cut and pasted one of the articles into word and did a search and replace for those words and put in a good person that made a mistake. Guess what she didn't read it. Said I was being patronizing and trying to make her feel bad.

The get over it thing works for me now too. When I made a mistake and she was getting mad at me I would sit and listen to her. Then when I figured I had enough I would say "you know you are really dwelling on this and it's really not that big of a deal you need to "GET OVER IT." Boy did that tick her off. She said she knew why I was doing it and I was holding her A over head. I said no I am not. I am living by your rules. You get to decide when I should be over something and I get to decide when you should be over something. Every time you do something wrong you tell me how I should react or how I should have reacted.

BTW of course she could. I have said this before what kind of ego stroke do you think she got out of this whole mess. Sex with your H gave her a feeling that a man would chose her even if it meant losing everything. What more could a person ask for. When you feel great about yourself sex is easy.

I am sorry for your pain. These things have worked for me but I don't suggest everyone use them. The whole get over it thing could blow up on you.