Lake, of course it makes sense. This is what virtually ALL wayward spouses do. So many BS make the mistake of thinking that the poor WS is so terribly confused and is trying to "choose" between the OP and the BS.

Not for a minute. They want BOTH. And the only thing they're confused about is how to keep on having both a comfy respectable married life *and* a fun and exciting single life now that the BS knows they're pursuing both.

I think you've just run smack into that cold hard wall that makes you realize, "This Had Nothing To Do With Me." Your WH did not cheat because of anything you did or did not do, as common wisdom would have it. And he did not cheat because of childhood trauma, mid-life crisis, or anything else like that.

No, it's just sunk in to you that he cheated because he could, because it was fun, and because he thought he could get away with it.

Honey, that's what they ALL do. And that somehow makes it even more pathetic, doesn't it?

Hang in there. With this realization you are well on the road to recovery, either with or without your H.
Mulan

Thanks for reading all that Mulan. He also calls his behavior "pathetic" now. And you are so right with what you say. Thank you for reminding me I am on my road to recovery. The recovery will be with him, not without him. But it is just going to take some time. I can't imagine my life without him and he is remorseful. I guess you are saying that this anger and resentment is a stage of my recovery and I guess it is. There are so many things that I have been feeling bad about--my tone of voice because he told her he liked hers, my attractiveness because he told her she was pretty, his love for me because he told her he loved her as much as he was capable of loving anyone (when they were teenagers), my sense of humor because he just wanted to have "fun", etc, etc, etc.

Here I am, a smart, fun loving, good looking 53 year old trying to prove myself to be a smart and fun loving, good looking 53 year old.

So if I realize "this had nothing to do with me", maybe I can get over all this.

Thank you for calling me "honey". I need that from a girl.
Lake

Especially another 53-year-old girl! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Mulan

I am still struggling. All the rationalizations about what he did and why are demolished. It is what it is and it ain't pretty, considering our 30 year relationship and explicitlly shared values of fidelity and privacy within our R.

I do not want him to touch me right now. We had been doing good re SF and he had been learning to open up more in this area--slowly but some changes for the better.

I have been trying to "square" all this--his behavior. But I know it can't be squared. So then I wonder--how can I look at him and be intimate? I think it will take time--one small step at a time.

Also--the big ah-ha moment for me--why do I try? Because we have children who need both of us.

So, back to square one, don't do anything that makes me feel humiliated. But keep moving forward in reconciliation because of the children.

EA's are hard--we each have our own demons to deal with. I'm certain some would read my thread and think what a baby. Actually, I am usually a tough and calm cookie. This has really thrown me for a loop.
Lake

Thanks for your comments on my posting yesterday. I caught up with your history today and think we're on the same path of recovery. It's true it can be called a late mid-life crisis - but that's still not an excuse for H with OW.

Your days sound like mine - some up and some down - but I'm really trying to concentrate more on me and how I feel and what I want. Since we were brought up in the same generation, it's hard for us to think about ourselves, but when you do - it really does help. Based on your postings, it sounds like you're on the right path and just need to "stay the course." Just don't expect everything to be great all the time and learn how to deal with the bad days.

If you ever want to talk directly, please let me know.

Hi Linn--
Yes, I am doing a better job of taking care of myself and H is helping me to have the time to do that.

He has no regrets about NC and seemed to go through no withdrawal. He really regrets being secretive and is being more open now about his day to day activities.

He's also trying to set up lots of fun date-type activities.
Lake

Hi Lake,

Don't worry, you're about 7 to 8 months post D-Day, right? It is still perfectly normal to be going through ups and downs. Where you need to worry is when the downs outweigh/outlast the ups.

Let me ask you this...do you feel safe? Is your H exhibiting behavior that shows he is now monitoring his own behavior to keep him from future temptations? Is he protecting his weaknesses? Is he making strong effort to be transparent?

If not, I would suggest this as an area for the two of you to explore together. It is not unreasonable for you to ask for what will make you feel safe.

If your H is already doing the above, then practice focusing on the positive. Journal each day a loving action, or a list of your H's good qualities, or a memory of an especially tender moment between the two of you.

I wish you all the best.

Yes, I need to keep track of his good actions. We have also talked more about what makes me feel loved by him He really is a good man and we will make it through this stronger and better than we were pre-EA.

Lake

Lake, Thanks for this post. It almost is exactly how I feel. My d-day was 3 months ago. I am the BS and my FWW had a EA with a much older man (25 year older). It went on from March until The 10th of August. Just like your FWH, she didn't see anything wrong with her actions. She spent hours a day on the phone with him. She even met him at his work after they was closed (car salesman). She never had a physical attraction to him, but he he did her. They never discussed anything sexual, they just opened up to each other about the problems they had daily. It took me awhile after d-day to make her understand that what she was doing was very wrong. Anyway i don't want to ramble here, but last light I let her read this thread and it really let her know how I was feeling. Thank you Lake for opening up like you have.

Dear ksh,

You are welcome. I am glad that it helped her to understand how shocking this kind of betrayal of intimacy can be to the one who has no idea what is going on.

I am continuing to feel well. I think a turning point for me was when I just acknowledged that my FWH simply messed up big time. His fog allowed him to continue.

He left lots of evidence in his e-mails that we recovered after he deleted them and also in the cell phone records. He sees that he had gotten obsessive about the relationship. Sounds like your wife also got obsessive. Hope everything is going well for you and your W and that you both recover in your marriage.

Lake

We are doing well with our recovery. My FWW workes in a bank and he was in there daily, dropping of loan papers or deposits for the dealership he works for. Well she just got a new job that she starts the week after Thanksgiving. YEA NO MORE HAVING TO DEAL WITH THE OM! Also she was obsessed with talking to him. As soon as she left the house in the morning she called him and talked all the way to work. On her lunch she called and talked thru her entire lunch. As soon as she got off work she called him and talked all the way home. She even called him while we was on vacation. The vacation calls really hurt me bad as she had no explaination as to why she had to call him then. She has taken great strides to show me that she still loves me and we continue to talk in an open and honest manner daily.

Glad to hear that they will no longer see each other.

I also hope that she stays supportive of you during this time it will take you to heal. The last dark phase I went through and also ones before the last one, my H would ask things like "can't we just move forward?" or "how long will these sad feelings last?" He does not like the idea that it may last a couple years.

Other than those few statements from him, he has been very understanding and very supportive. He says he will accept all my emotions around this issue because he knows he is the one at fault.

It certainly helps when the FWS accepts full responsibility for their actions. Radical honesty also helps, but can, I think, be difficult for the FWS to achieve during the stage immediately after discovery, after no contact.

Of course, a WS is incapable of radical honesty.

I continue to do good, have given my FWH some nice compliments over his recent great relationship building. This has made him feel like a million bucks and makes him really motivated to do even more for our relationship.
Lake

Last night, my FWH went to a sporting event that one of my DSs was participating in. I was at home with another DS who has special needs. That DS had a lot of homework and I was helping him with homework that my FWS normally helps him with.

I called FWH on cell phone, asked him a question about homework. I still was not certain I was helping correctly so I called him again and said, "please listen carefully to the material I am going to say next regarding the homework. I need your help as DS is confused and I am not sure I am doing this right." Next, I hear my FWH say "SUZY??!!", and then, "Wait a moment BS". "Suzy" is another old girlfriend from college. He had seen her a couple years ago at another sporting event and they had talked then.

I hung up. I was angry. After several minutes, he called me back several times. But I had moved on to other home work with DS and did not want to talk to him. He left a message saying, "I don't know what the problem is, don't know why you aren't answering me."

Turns out, "Suzy" was walking down the hall and had not seen nor recognized him while he was talking to me on his phone. He just called out to her directly after I had said "I need your help...." He was aware I had hung up and he knew why I had hung up. He still went ahead and engaged her in a several minute conversation before trying to call me back. He says when he left the message, "I don't know what the problem is.....", he really did know why I was upset.

I am still angry.

He did not have to call out her name. Once he did call it out, he could have just waved and said "hi, good to see you". Once he knew I hung up, he could have said "Hi, love to chat, but I have to make a call for BS right now."

He is doing the same old thing of defending his actions, playing dumb, etc., forcing me to challenge his statements. Once I challenge them, he backs down. I don't even want to talk to him or interact with him.

Example, he said he is always scared (that I will stop recovery or something to that effect). I said, "how can that be??? The time to be scared was when you saw former girlfriend's face--that would have been the time to be scared." That scared feeling should have helped him turn away and continue his conversation with me. But he says he did not feel scared right then--Guess former girlfriends don't make him scared, but I do. I think it's crap--I think he just feels guilt, not scared. In fact, I feel angry that he told me he feels scared. I don't think I have given him reason to feel scared. I think he gave himself reason to feel scared, engaging in out of control juvenile behavior last March with a former girlfriend.

Over the past weeks, I was doing pretty good. I had told him I was understanding the EA and how he did not connect his relationship with that former girlfriend with me, that he loved me even while he was interacting with her numerous times a day through e-mail, phone calls, her text messages, and finally a secret meeting with her. He has fully acknowledged that his behaviors at that time were EA behaviors.

How could he see another old girlfriend and call her out for a conversation while he was talking to me on the phone and I had just said, "Listen carefully to what I am going to say next, I need you"??????

Sure, it was just an EA with a former girlfriend back in March, but wouldn't you think he would realize that he should not do that to me... now?

I really feel like I want to hurt him now. I want to make him feel like I have been feeling. Oh Crap.
Lake

I called FWH on my way in to work today. I told him I feel he has an addiction to old girl friends. I thought we had gone through some of this stuff back when he had the EA, but I guess he still was stuck in the idea that it was a one shot thing related to his desire to get back in touch with his younger self.

I reminded him of some of our earlier discussions. After a moment's shock, he agreed with me that old girl friends seem to be a problem for him. He said he will avoid any contact with them. Upon reflection, he said he felt safer now that we had discussed this. He felt it was a good thing for him to avoid any contact with any of them. He understood that he had really dismissed me when he saw the old girlfriend last night and he understood that it was really inappropriate considering what he had done last march in the EA.

Later today, he shared some other things with me. He told me that most of his fantasy life revolved around these old girlfriends and himself but only when they were young (he and the old girlfriend) In the fantasy, he would change his behaviors to create a different scenario or outcome with them. He said he never looked at the present time and how these changed scenarios would affect his present day life (apparently some of them would have--I didn't go there.)

I think it is possible that he only fantasizes about them because he feels it would be a betrayal to me to fantasize about someone in the here and now or someone he knew when he also knew me. We really have been very loyal to each other.

I think the unintended effect of this old girlfriend fantasy is that it made them extra special. He has rarely seen them or heard from them. But when he has seen them, I have had a sense of emotional tension that has made me uncomfortable. Now I realize, my discomfort was not irrational, it was my sense that he was somewhat aroused by them.

I know fantasies are healthy. But I do think it is a little unusual that one's entire fantasy life revolves around old girlfriends. So considering what happened in March, he has agreed to extend his fantasy life to other areas and to stop fantasizing around issues of old girlfriends. In fact, now that he sees it as an addiction, he does not feel comfortable fantasizing about them. I think he stopped most of it shortly after the EA, but probably not all of it. We have (or should I say I have)improved our sex life and now he says he primarily fantasizes about me.

Strange, because FWH does not have an addictive personality. But former girlfriends seem to be something that is alluring to him. He read the articles I gave him warning people away from getting in touch with old flames. He just did not realize how serious this issue was. I know, he was only talking to her last night--but the tone of his voice when he said her name--you know what I mean--just not healthy. Especially since it completely took him away from the issue I needed to talk to him about--Homework with DS.

I still feel a little closed off and need my space from him. But I'll get over it. I wish he could help create fantasies with me--I do all that and he just enjoys it--somewhat passive about creating interesting environment, etc, around SF. I've asked him to help me with this. I have tried several prompts. Hope he can step up and help me with this.
Lake

lake 53. The same type of thing happened to me. I found out my wife was in contact with her old lover from college days -- dinners, letters, ???. It started out when she was visiting her parents and went on for a very long time. I knew nothing. When I finally discovered it she insisted she had done nothing wrong, and they were just old friends. She said there was nothing romantic and nothing physical. I found his photograph with some letters from him she had been hiding. I was shocked and angry. I felt betrayed. The hardest part for me was trying to figure out whether I was overreacting and being unfair to her. She kept saying "nothing happened." I couldn't get many details from her because she said there weren't any. I replayed what I did know over and over in my mind, day after day, trying to make some sense of it. What had she done? Very, very gradually I started to let it go. But it took a long, long time. And still a day doesn't go by that I don't think about it.

We are doing better again.

He tells me that since it seems to be an addiction, he is going to treat it like an addiction: One day at a time. He plans to think about the day ahead and what he needs to do, what he will be doing with me, and how he should interact with me and the children for that day.

He says he stopped the fantasies back shortly after my discovery of the EA. But he feels that he needs to keep his mind on me and the kids.

His replacement fantasies have been about me, since I have given him quite a bit to fantasize about <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. He also says he feels safer now that he has a plan--safer in our marriage and that he is able to keep from upsetting our equalibrium. I am feeling better and I like his plan--it has been working.
Lake

Regarding the contact with another old girlfriend and his revelation that he has been spending most of his fantasy time fantasizing about old high school times and old h.s. and college girlfriends, does this sound like passive/aggressive behavior??

Also, I found lyrics to a song on his night stand. They were not romantic lyrics or anything like that. But he had taken time to listen to the song, stop the CD, and write down the lyrics by hand. It was about three pages long. I asked him if this was a substitute for the fantasy behavior that he says he has stopped. I found him listening to that song with a very far away look on his face.

I do think he is stopping the fantasy of past times. These thoughts still come to him it seems pretty much daily, but he says he stops them as soon as the thought comes into his head.

Any one else ever deal with anything like this? I guess I just wonder if fantasizing about me will be fullfilling replacement fantasy behavior or if there is something else that the fantasy activity fullfills for him--will the reality of me satisfy fantasy needs?

Again, I know fantasy thoughts are normal and healthy. I just think that the fantasy of old times including old girlfriends taking up most of his fantasy life was unhealthy and made me feel uncomfortable. I think it would have made me feel uncomfortable if I had know of this even before his EA.
Lake

bump

Walked down the hall today of my and my H's home, ready to watch boys open presents. I got that old feeling of love for my family and my home, that sense of accomplishment and pride and love--hard to explain but that old feeling before EA but even better.
Lake

I made it through my one year anniversary of D day. It was on this upcoming Monday one year ago that H sent no contact letter. He has had no contact since that day. It is still a struggle with day to day issues of triggers and distant behaviors on the part of FWH. The issues now revolve more around meeting emotional needs on both of our parts. It is not easy keeping a routine of behaviors that meet emotional needs and help heal the marriage.

It is amazing how a month long EA can disrupt a marriage. It is the secretive behavior that caused much of the damage.

I frequently feel like I have lost my grounding and do not always know how to react or act within my marriage. Most of my actions and reactions are colored by the EA. I don't know if that makes any sense or if this is a clear enough description for anyone else to comment on it. I am on less of a roller coaster ride and feel like it is more of a swing or yo-yo: do I simply smile at some behaviors of forgetfulness or do these behaviors remind me of how he forgot he was a happily married man who should not be lying to his wife to go meet up with an old girlfriend.
Lake