Are you really ok with him taking her calls as long as you don't know about it?

If you can ask him to keep his phone on silent, is it really that big of a stretch to ask him not to speak to her at all?

You can do it. If you want an open, honest relationship, that means you have to be open and honest, too.

I know you are right.
I want him to stop talking to her and recommit to us. I guess I haven't asked because I don't want to know the answer.

I just figured all along that because they can't see each other that eventually it would just die out.

i have to remember that if I want him to be honest I have to be honest as well.

I think it may be easier for me to write it out in a letter and give it to him or read it to him.

And I have to be strong and stand up for my self and not be fearfull of his reaction.
thansk for the feedback.

Blind

But, Blind, you cannot make him stop talking to her or recommit to your relationship. You can only tell him how you feel.

"I love you and I think we can re-build a fantastic, fun, committed relationship together when OW is out of our lives."

Then show him how fun and happy and good your relationship can be.

Long emotional letters and speeches probably aren't going to be very effective right now. Just respectfully tell him what you're feeling. You can't control his reaction, so don't worry about it. You're not going to "make" him stay or go -- that's his choice. You are only responsible for your own choices and actions, not his reactions.

I'm not nearly as eloquent at this as some of the other long-timers around here. I hope it's making some sense.

It is making sense.
I guess it is just the going back and forth he is doing. Today is my birthday and we are going out to dinner.

I just checked his email and he is looking for houses and mortgages????

How is he playing this game??

I can only imagine that he isn't telling her that we still sleep in the same bed and have sex. Maybe I should.

I guess the biggest problem I have right now is that the man I knew for 17 years is definately not the man I am living with now.

Thanks for all your help.

Blind

I am still doing a strong plan A.

He is still living in the house with no plans I know of to move out.

OW is still over 1000 miles away. Their only contact is cell phones and text messaging.

How do I go about setting boundaries when the only way I can get any info is to snoop in his cell phone?

After d- day ( 4-1-06) He got a new cell phone.

I have learned the codes and can get all call info and read the text messages.

He never calls while he is home or he waits until I am sleeping and calls her in the middle of the night.
He never does this in front of me.

Ho do I mention the amount of time he spends talking to her without him knowing how I got the info??

I don't want him to start sleeping with his phone again?

It is my only window to this A.

Thanks in advance for any opinions!!!

Blind

blindsided,

Have you gotten and read Love Must Be Tough by Dobson yet? I think that would be of great benefit to you...

On the other thing...Get a voice activated digital recorder and put it in his car...you can then confront him with that evidence while maintaining your "phone privileges"...or vice versa...

Mrs. W

Hey Mrs. W.

Yes I read Dobson and I also got Not Just Friends By Glass I think.

Both were good recomendations since I am not sure which path to choose.

I am starting to lose points in his LB so I may be ready soon for Dobson or Plan B or a combo of them both.

I am almost 3 months past D day but he was gone for one of those months so I wasn't counting that one.

I am just wishing for a glimpse of the man he used to be.

Blind

If you change nothing, nothing changes...

Go buy the recorder...look out for you...

Mrs. W

I haven't been around for a week or so. Plan A has really been good for me. I have gotten myself into a happy place at least as best I can.

I checked my WS phone this am and ther has been no contact from him to her in 3 days. She has texted him 3 times and he has not responded to her or called her at all.
The last text from her to him that has gone unanswered was a message asking him " Is this your way of ending this?"

Am I reading to far into this or is Plan A starting to make it's way through the fog?

Thanks friends!!!!
Blind

Wow ... that sounds like a little glimer of good news. Think you could ask him about it? Suggest a NC letter, which leaves no doubt at all about how he's "ending this" with her. Less cruel than stringing her along, and better for both of you, too.

Good to see you back around, I was wondering about you.

-AmI.

Weather forecast:

Don't expect the Fog to clear until a few weeks AFTER they have officially broken it off. Until such time the roller coaster will be running at full speed. Enjoy the comfortable times...keep attracting him back to you and meeting the needs he will let you and be prepared for the backlash of withdrawal.

He likely finds leaving you too difficult. He wants/wanted to be with OW but she's just GUD (Geographically Undesirable). The logistics of breaking up with you, selling the house and going to her are just overwhelming and since he's got more histore with you he's just resigning from the relationship with her rather than really "choosing" you. He still has a lot to process and it will just happen again if you two don't process this whole thing together after the fog has cleared (i.e.-you two need and should BOTH want a better relationship not just a continuation of what you had)

Saying he's not choosing you may twinge a little but understand that I am indicating what I believe his fogged out mind is thinking. Once the Fog clears I hope he appreciates you standing by him, fighting for him and the new and improved you. Then you two get married and ride off into the sunset (albeit with a MB affair proof marriage)

Keep snooping and plan A'ing. Read Shaden's thread this week about building intimacy. Ask leading probing questions but don't put too much weight or emphasis on his fogged out answers. Just ask and listen. Remember, everybody's favorite subject is themselves.

Mr. Wondering

IAMOK is right. It may be a good timing to ask him how things are going with OW? What's his thinking? It seems he may be making the final decision and will be proud of himself and want to brag to you...be there for him.

Be sure to point out the just ending it won't be easy. He likely has no idea about withdrawal and will scoff at it. You can suggest seeing a doctor for AD's, or him letting you help him. Remember, men hate to be mean when breaking up with a girl. Men usually conflict avoid and just stop calling.

An important question maybe:"How did you come to that decision????"

When you get his answer then you memorize it. Repeat the key words often when discussing her over the next few weeks. You remain neutral when discussing her and if he gets defensive you remind him that ending it with her was HIS decision. You are merely being supportive of him and his decisions. Say, "I've been your best friend for a long time, and I hope we can discuss this".

Avoid self-criticism. No comparing you and OW. You give every indication that you presume you are better than her in EVERY SINGLE WAY. No LB's, just confidence (even if it's feigned).

Mr. Wondering

Thanks for the input as always it is greatly appreciated.

The last feww weeks have actually been great. We have done some fun things together. Mostly we have just spent time being together in the same room. Some times talking sometimes just being.

The last few days he has seemed different that is what led me to investigate how much they had been communicating.

He has been a little "snippy" and a little more introverted than in the past month. Maybe a little bit of withdrawal?
A month ago there were dozens of text messages back and forth and hours of phone calls every single day.

That seems to be over at least for the short term.

Neither of us are working this weekend so that should leave time for talking and sharing if he feels he can do that.

I am planning a great dinner tonight so that should put him in a good mood.

As for comparing myself to the OW. No problem with that. I am a strong confident beautiful woman and if he goes in another direction it will be hard but I won't let it break my spirit and conviction to live a great life.

I know I am rambling but I just feel so good right now about myself, my relationship and for the first time in a long time my future together with my WS.

Thanks for "listening"

Blind

First of all I guess I have to say when I look back at the last 3 months of my life, I can't believe how this site and all of the books I have read have literally saved my relationship.

With out all of your help and some books recommended to me in this site I would be alone right now and I would have lost the love of my life.

His last call to OW was 7/1/06 and he left a message.
She has text messaged him 3 time with no reposnse at all from him.
Her last TM was on 7/5/06 and it stated that " Obviously he doesn't want to talk to her anymore ao she guesses this is his way of ending things with her."

Again his favorite way to deal with things is avoidance. I am just glad he is avoiding her now.

So now I need to know how to approach him about his plans. He doesn't know that I know about their lack of contact. As far as he knows I still think the A is going on.
He has made no attempt to talk to me about our relationship or situation at all.

I haven't brought it up either because I guess I just don't know how to start the conversation while making him feel comfortable enough to be honest with me?

Do I wait for him to come talk to me or should I initiate some sort of discussion???

Blind

Sweeping it under the rug is unacceptable. Developing intimacy in your relationship is necessary. Opening up the "can of worms" is essential to developing such intimacy lest history repeat itself. You can't coast your way through this one.

Be mindful of withdrawal. You can't force answers to questions he's not ready or able to address yet but you do need to start the ball rolling towards a proper recovery.

Work on yourself. Figure out what your boundaries and standards are. I, myself, had a simple boundary..."I refuse to remain in a loveless marriage".

My wife's affair was ended by OM. She could have maintained her foginess indefinetly and I eventually would have removed myself from the relationship regardless of the affair being over. If she had not have done such a tremendous job of owning her stuff and working so hard that would have been it. I never had to threaten it. I merely stated my boundary a few times at the outset of recovery. She understood the point.

My advice. Work on your conflict avoiding skills and stop conflict avoiding. Discuss the issue of "conflict avoiding" with him. Attempt to get him to air his "foggy" grievances and make him feel safe to do so. Don't allow his foggy greivances to hurt you. Recognize them for what they are. He'll come around as you two open up communication.

In the end, get to the bottom of your relationship and be wholly prepared to move on if and when you discover it is not all you feel you deserve. You are not married to him and there are no kids, so you are uniquely positioned to just up and go find a quality replacement (you may be releived to have him back but are you happy????)

Give it some time. Have a plan and a timetable. I submit, your boyfriend is not the man of your dreams today, but if you think he's worth it, fight for him to become the best man he can be. Refuse to allow him to gloss it over. If that's not good enough....no worries...move on. You ONLY control yourself...you can't make him good enough...only HE can. The ultimate key...defining within yourself what's good enough.

Strike the iron while it's hot....whatever you do, don't do nothing otherwise absolutely nothing changes. I'd hate to see you back here a few years from now with kids.

Mr. Wondering

Still no contact as of today. That is about 10 days of NC.

I tried to approach the subject in a non confrontational manner.
I asked hime if he had made any plans since he has been home for a month now and he said no.
I asked him if he had any plans to go to new york or if the OW had plans to come here and he said no.
He didn't open up at all.
I guess I just have to get some ba**s and come right out and ask are you two still planning to be together or are we going to work on us?

It is so strange that he wouldn't be happy to tell me the affair is over. All I can think of he must be embarrased or afraid to admit it.

Has anybody dealt with this much avoidence before?

Blind

Sort of...Only the opposite way. I am the one who is silent, angry if you will, that my H found out about my A, because now I have to choose, and I didn't want to have to make that choice. I am the one who tries to avoid any and all dicussions about the A or the status of it.

Why??? because it is difficult to say to your BS that you "miss this person"...sometimes silence is golden!

So are you saying tha he is not telling me about his lack of contact with her because he misses her?

I guess I can understand that. They are 1000 miles apart.

Has your A ended? Are you working on your marriage now?

I will take all opinions. Especially those FWS!!!
Thanks!
Blind

Instead of trying to guess what he wants, what he's doing, what he's feeling, and getting all tangled up in things that you don't have control over --- why don't you tell him what you want, what you're doing and feeling?

"Babe, I think we can have a really great relationship, and I'd like to work on making it that way. Would you like to go to MC with me?"

"I'm want to ... (fix up the house, plan a vacation, further your education ... whatever)."

"I feel ..... about ......" (This is my favorite, that I'm just learning!).

2 crazy

If you are still around please start your own thread. We really can help you. You must help yourself first and start a thread detailing your situation and seeking advice. Email my wife and I at the address listed below if you are at all hesitant.

Blindsided:

I saw Pep post this the other day.


Take a road trip with him and do this in the car. Be an insistent best friend that he open up and share his feelings. If he can't talk to you, what use is there in being in a relationship with him.

Mr. W