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Back to fine tuning...you staying calm and direct, sticking to your truth...my remarks are not attacks or judgment...
"Me: I acknowledge and respect your feelings, I’m sorry you feel way, but I Did not hurt his children’s it was his W’s choice to do what she did"
You didn't get it and then you got it...you are emphasizing choices...emphasize the choices of the adulterers...and you caught yourself in the next line:
"And it’s the adultery that hurt his children’s"
By putting OMW first, it takes away the primary truth...OM and WW hurt everyone's children and spouses...and themselves. Practice this...I see where you are susceptible to WW's fog...and are pulled in her illogical direction...I remember. I did, too. Staying clear inside you will help you to stay calm, see how child-like your WW is right now...almost calling you a big ol' doodoo face (slang American for poopyhead...what phrase did you grow up with when you were 5-years-old and super duper mad?)
"And I do not regret what I did; I know it was the right thing to do And now they are going to counseling and they might save their marriage."
And what you followed with was fantastic...remind yourself you do not regret doing the right thing, your goal to save your marriage...even in the face of your WW's anger and irrational responses. She wants you to be at fault, you understand. Anyone but her...too big a responsibility...and you know this as her reasoning, not the truth...I know you do. Stay right there. Be aware you are staying present in your WW's fury and you're not dissolving, being killed or annihilated...what you feared from her anger before. Not happening. Amazing, isn't it?
Then you hit your limit...what was it? What was the exact point that sent you back to defensive/offensive mode?
"Me: You mean to tell you and me that it wasn’t before where willing to work on it. Because If I recall I’ve been trying to get us into counseling way before OM Was in the picture, you always refused."
Why are you arguing here? Means you took her statement as THE truth, not HER truth...why? Is this your biggest fear, that it is over and your fault?
"This marriage is been over for a while now, I’m not trying to save it,"
Is this your truth or your reactive hope in harming her enough to stop harming you?
"We did a lot of wrong things, what I’m trying to do is start fresh, New understanding new beginning."
Oh, I get it...you're not trying to save the old marriage...but create a new one...I'm slow. I'll get there.
"We learned a lot from this in the last few months, I have learned a lot, We can take the knowledge from this split up and apply it on a new relationship, Or we can apply it on this one and keep our family together.
Sometimes it doesn’t get better till it gets worse, it’s like a car that is making noise, Some people don’t fix it until it breaks, and this is what happened to us, It’s broken, we have the choice to fix it or throw it away.
No body said it would be easy, no body said it will be quick, all we need is commitment I made that commitment; it’s up to you now.
WW: (Covering her eyes so I don’t see her cry) It will never be the same.
Me: I promised myself that I wouldn’t preach, and look at me. I’m going to go have a cup of coffee and grab something to eat, Do you want a cup of tea or something?
WW: NO."
Wow...you caught yourself...what a great catch and save...you're really good at this...how about a standard reply for her standard statement "It will never be the same"? How about, "That is what gives me hope, WW."
"Did I screw up?" How?
"I did brush her words of at the time, but later on they came back and god they hurt. They hurt not because of the content; they hurt because of the intent to hurt."
Okay...you didn't brush off her words at the time...you had them secure in that hopper on your head...and again, don't allow them to come into your brain until you and your brain agree this is her opinion, not fact...not your truth, her perception, 'k? Then they don't hurt. You better be strong for YOU because you're worth it...you've allowed yourself to be hurt for a life time believing others over yourself...time to protect self in truth...allowing others to own what is theirs and stop taking it from them, stabbing yourself with it, 'k?
Hurt because of her intent? Isn't that a DJ? Did you ask for her intent? I bet it would be "to stop hurting"...
You both have had this dance of earning each other's love and earning each other's punishment...and you're stopping that dance...stop it in your head, too, 'k?
"It never stops." This is your inner child...know you stopped that dance by offering coffee or tea...how elegant, kind, comforting and what a great spouse...regardless of response.
"I thought of telling her how hurtful some of her words are but I didn’t Should I?"
Save your Open & Honesty statements for when you aren't engaged in conflict...these are for awhile later...or next day...like "I am thinking about how much pain I felt yesterday when I heard you say you hated me. This coffee is really good. Thank you. That tea/coffee I had last night helped to settle me down after our conversation."
Simple...honest...no attack...not resonse-based...and interlaced with appreciation. Real stuff, not fake.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
This isn't a test you pass or fail, Joe...it is life...as is...and how different is your response from this conversation versus a year ago with your wife?
LA
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LA thank you I always feel better when I read your reply.
“ Why are you arguing here? Means you took her statement as THE truth, not HER truth...why? Is this your biggest fear, that it is over and your fault?”
Yes it is my biggest fear.
A friend asked a few days ago. Actually the day of the exposure.
Why are you trying to save this marriage?
Is it for financial reason? For the kids? Or you just want her back?
I told him that this might be selfish but I do want her back, so I’m doing this for me.
He said WOW I didn’t think you would be that honest.
So this is my reason it’s etched in my mind and I’m doing all I can to save my marriage and keep my family together. If this is wrong then I don’t want to be right.
LA I would love to print some of youre replys for her to read would that be a bad Idea at this time?
Last edited by 213601; 06/05/06 11:44 AM.
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what if she calls an attorney?
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Joe, my replies are for you...not her. Educating her, which I believe I desired greatly to do with my WH, because I shared my beliefs and experiences with him...and this was HUGE, learning from MB...really came from this sharing and intimacy...and it was a good thing to not do this...to educate...helped to break that automatic enmeshment...to know what I knew, learned what I learned for me, and to respect my spouse would ask when they wanted to know...learn when they needed to learn or were open to it...
Keep them for you...everyone's replies...they are for you, about you...
I'm glad you know you're doing this for you...and your kids, because they are a part of you...
And admire you for speaking this, being O&H, about your why's, to others...
There's nothing to do about her calling an attorney...breathe, know your limits and power...because my experience on MB and in real life is WS's use the threat of divorce...believe they are taking steps...sling it around as if saying it makes it so...even my WH had an interview with an attorney and would not file nor follow her advice...though he kept telling the OW he was getting one...oh, yeah...and he didn't. Wouldn't. Nor did I...
Respect her choices as out of your control...respect yourself and do not conjure up the future because it isn't here...
Let's go to your biggest fear...
" Is this your biggest fear, that it is over and your fault?”
Yes it is my biggest fear."
Look inside yourself...find out how this belief (behind the fear) that you are so powerful, you cause and control so much, that you would be at fault for destroying your marriage? God made you special? He gave you control over your spouse? He didn't give her choice? Or did God give you half the marriage and she, the other half?
Your part IS your part...and look at how much you had no idea about...nor did many of us, before coming here...forgiving yourself can get bound up, tied to forgiving your WS...don't let this happen. Know your limits...and hers. Maya Angelou: We did then what we knew; when we knew better, we did better.
Focus on you...not her, Joe. Reminder.
Talk to God...and listen...listen a lot...hear him whispering you home...he is faithful and doesn't leave...we leave him from time to time...and he waits for us. He doesn't betray.
Know this. This can be you...and you won't betray yourself fousing on her to your own exclusion, will you?
LA
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No LA my fear is that it's over.
I don't blame myself for it.
the only thing I will regret is that we didn't even try counseling, befor calling it quits.
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What you do if she's called an attorney is to call one to protect yourself. Secure your finances and make sure she cannot loot your joint accounts.
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21,
Whatever you do, get an attorney yourself ASAP. Trying to get WW back is good, and you should continue to Plan A, but you need to also protect yourself and your CHILDREN should the worst come to pass. Call an attorney and find out your options, lest you be broadsided. As LH said, be sure to also protect your finances. WS are known to deplete the family’s finances when they think they want a D.
Good luck.
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Thanks guys I'm going to ask her tonight if she did actualy see a lawyer.or if she is planing to. I asked lawyer she is a friend of mine, well a customer a while back about all this stuff.
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213, can I make a suggestion so this doesn't escalate out of control? Dont' say anything to her tonight. Do as the others said and contact the atty, though, so your W can't harm you. Get your finances protected.
However, when your W speaks of divorce, tell her that you don't do divorce, you only do marriage. But if she does insist on going through, that you will PROTECT yourself and the kids and go for primary custody. Tell her you will be citing adultery and naming the OM, calling the OMW and the pastor as witnesses.
Make sure she understands that you will not just lay down for a divorce but will fight for every inch. One of the biggest mistakes that BS' make is going along with divorce and HELPING the WS end the marriage. If you don't help her end the marriage, it often buys the time neccessary for things to blow over. And things usually DO blow over.
In your case, your W is FURIOUS because you have interfered with her affair. However, she won't be furious next week. And she won't be furious after she withdraws from the OM. She is mad because you have destroyed her affair.
So, the answer is to NOT help her divorce you AT ALL by refusing to cooperate and by letting her know that it will not be a pretty divorce if it comes to that. That may discourage her long enough for the anger to subside.
Another thing that is important to keep in mind here. Many WS' will THREATEN divorce [even to the point of visiting one] in order to SCARE the BS out of interfering with the affair. Don't let her succeed in this!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks ML
I wouldn't say anithing till the dust settels.
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I soundly support Mel's advice...it works. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
As for your fear it's over...keep that in check inside of you...know that is a little boy fear...can't know it is over until the person in the robes wields their gavel, right?
Know this as your truth...reassure yourself it isn't over for a long time...because otherwise, you'll live through those feelings again and again (brain doesn't know time, remember?)...
You can do this...breathe and breathe and breathe some more...when you do this and hyperventilate, remember, I'm the one who said give yourself a head rush.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I remembered you had consulted a lawyer (didn't know it was a friend) ... remember that line..."I do marriage. I don't do divorce."
"I don't do divorce. I do marriage."
You are doing this!!!
LA
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Yesterday I got home no body their. I called her cell phone no answer. I went out and had dinner, then went to the store to get some items we needed While at the store she called. With a very confident voice I told her I’m at the grocery store and I got her pepperoni, but I didn’t know what kind of cheese she likes, She replied don’t get me anything, and she started crying. I asked what was wrong; she said nothing I’m almost home, I asked if they had dinner already she said No just bring something for the kids.
This is the 2nd time she cries in front of me. I don’t know what that means.
I asked her what was wrong when I got home she said I’m fine.
Her silence is killing me. I have all these questions in my mind like.
Is she crying because she feels guilty? Is she crying because she misses OM? She is still being silent and withdrawn from me, I did tell her earlier over the phone That her words on Saturday where hurtful especially one of them coming out of her, And I knew she was going to act this way after I told OMW, and I wasn’t expecting a medal for that. She did not say a word. Should I stop calling her during the day? I think my calls bother her a lot.
LA I’ve been reading your replies to AMI, and following her story I did what She did, a lot of her actions where exactly like mine, I did bend my ways to fit my wife’s needs, thinking this is the only way to be loved, and I guess I was wrong. This is disrespectful; I wish I knew then what I know now. I always tried to earn her love even though she handed it to me on a silver platter All I needed to do was reach for it, but I didn’t. I wish she would give us a second chance. I’m learning a lot from this and thank god for MB.
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213, she is probably in withdrawal because she can't get in touch with the OM. Just hang tight.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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she is crying because she feels
L O S T
and
C O N F U S E D
the adultery takes it's toll on the WS who actually has a conscience
they have
soulsickness
and they cry or they rage or they hide out in their fantasy
but all of it leads back to
"I don't like myself as a cheater"
hang close keep your mouth shut offer non-sexual hugging
it is going to be hard on her
Pep
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Make yourself into a soft place right now
when she falls apart
she just might choose you as her soft place to fall
Pep
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She made it clear on saturday when she blew up in my face,
that she hated me blablabla, and she doesn't want me to touch her ever again,( this would include huging),and dont call her by her pet name anymore.
so it would be hard to offer a hug. but she knows I'm here for her, she got the message yesterday when I told her ove the phone I will be right their. she didn't want to say anything, and she was done crying. but she knew I was concerned.
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213, do you realize that you have very probably saved your marriage by busting up this affair? If you hadn't done that, there would really be something here to worry about. Your W is going through all the motions of a withdrawing WS, because you were BRAVE.
It might not seem like it right now, but your situation now has HOPE. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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There is no law against asking:
"Do you need a hug?"
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"She made it clear on saturday when she blew up in my face,"
She made nothing clear, Joe. Choosing to believe she means what she says...that's you hurting you...punishing yourself for what you didn't know until now...stop...listen to Pep and Mel...she is lost and confused...let her thoughts and feelings be hers...and you be there...
How can you not hug her? She isn't telling her truth...just her feelings right now...and they sound exactly like the 3-year-old she feels like...not an adult woman...and that's okay, because we have A's from our most immature part, don't we? No reasoning, all wishful thinking and fantasy...and pulling out of that takes adult strength and mind...and she's missing her fantasy...not a person...
She loves you, Joe...easy to say she hates you when she hates herself right now, isn't it?
Choose wisely what you believe...know why you want to withhold, calling it self-respect or self-protection, when really, it is you choosing to believe something damaging to you...and untrue.
((((Joe)))) You are brave...be true to yourself and your family.
LA
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6/6/06 11:52 AM PST
WW called crying.
Ww: I don’t know what you have accomplished by telling OMW. Now the principal just called and I have to go see the pastor @ 3:00 PM.
Bs: I’m sorry you feel this way did you want me to be there with you. Ww: NO I DON”T WANT TO SEE YOU DON”T YOU GET IT? I ‘m being humiliated everybody thinks I’m the devil I hope you’re Happy now.
BS: I’m not apologizing for telling his W, it was the right thing to do, And looks like they are working on their marriage, one out of two Is still better then two broken ones.
WW: How could you do this to me?
BS: I didn’t do this to you the affair did, I’m sorry you feel this way it tears me apart That you’re hurting, I care about you more then anything in the world, I wish I could make you feel better. A friend of mine asked me why are you doing this? Is it money, kids, or for her? I told him it’s for her she is the most important person in my life. WW you are an awesome Person, you are funny outgoing, all you’re friends like you, anybody would want to be with you.
I’m sorry for everything I did wrong in our relationship that led to this affair We both did some wrong things, but we didn’t know, we did then what we knew, Now we know better, or at least I know better, so we should do better.
I know a lot now one thing I’m good at is research and I’ve been doing a lot of it I know what happened, Know why it happened, I know how to fix it.
WW: I have to go right now I’ll let you go.
BS: Ok by.
I know too much preaching but I guess break up is still ON, she still hates me, Those tears where her own shame and pain, no remorse yet. I’m hanging in there. Should I ask her what did the pastor say to her tonight or not say a word?
Last edited by 213601; 06/06/06 05:32 PM.
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