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You know, it's funny... in all my years here (geez louize, has it really been seven?)... I have yet to meet an active WS who didn't eventually tell us what was going on.
Yes, I'm serious.
I'm sure there are those who quietly disappear and we never hear from them again, but they aren't usually the active posters.
My guess, for what it's worth, is that in spite of everything... an active WS knows what's right and wrong... and they need validation of that.
Plus, let's get real... a cursory reading here will tell you that you won't be getting hugs and fluffies when you say you're in an affair. This place is hard-core, folks... which is not to say there isn't care and compassion amongst our members (there is)... but hugs are not the first line defence against affairs - a dose of reality is.
Jen,
I think your album sounds nice. I hope your H appreciates the care and thought that has gone into it... and yes, while actions will speak louder than anything else, any and all efforts toward healing are a good thing, I think. And a big hello to you too NB! I haven't been around in a while and it's good to see you still here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Jen, You said B, I couldn't do what your H did and Rob knows that I haven't been able to do any Italy pages (and I never will) or any pages of our dog (even though she died 6 years ago). Just too painful.
That's why it will mean a lot when I put together our wedding pages. I am sure it will mean a lot to him. But, being a guy I have to ask, what is the message you are trying to send to him? You know us guys are not real swift in the figuring out things don't you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> What is your goal Jen? It seems to me (and I am just guessing) what Rob really wants to know is: "Do you need him in your life and why?" You mentioned several painful situations with the Italy trip being particularly painful to you and Rob. What I am thinking is that he is wondering WHY? WHY, would you want to be with him, when you found OM so alluring and had a crush on him for over 2 decades and ruined a trip of a lifetime with Rob, to be in contact with OM? Do you see where my thinking is going? I know this sounds odd, but my guess is what he needs to know is what you need him and what do you need from him to be happy? Nothing is not going to be a good answer. I am betting Rob is wondering what his place in your life really is. I am betting he is wondering if you are just settling. I am betting he is wondering if he has what it takes to make you happy, since OM has been in your consciesous (sp) for most of the marriage. I really like what A.M. Martin said about crushes being fantasy that has not been examined. Have you examined your fantasy and what have you found. Your H needs to hear these things Jen, that is my guess. I think I will now go perfect by backstroke in one of those giant Margaritas WAT was mentioning. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> God Bless, JL
Last edited by Just Learning; 06/05/06 11:56 PM.
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A.M. Martin, ps. I do not have a crush on JL. I am crushed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I liked your comments about crushes and fantasy. God Bless, JL PS: I don't think you are near my age. Heck I am about a decade older than 2Long, and he is a fossil. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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JL, if 2Long is a fossil so am I, we're the same age. So's WAT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> When I say the OM was in my thoughts my whole marriage, I don't mean he was in the forefront of my thoughts, but yes, he was there. Rob said he always knew there was something strange when I kept all the old photos of OM and I as teenagers. As I told Pio the other night I met up with the OM twice during my marriage before the final time at the funeral and the thought of having an A with him was the furthest thing from my mind. Yes, it was good to catch up those two times but it was just two old friends. The third time at the funeral was different. It is so true that I had reached complete indifference to the OM. He is not what I want. I know I'm holding on to who he was as a young man. He's not that person now. BTW the message of the scrapbooked photographs is that I care enough about him to treat his old photos with respect and that I want memories of him. Men, honestly! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I am not settling. If I thought my future was a future of "settling" I would leave now. I want a full, honest relationship with Rob. I want us to be happy and have fun. When he refused to go to meet our daughter in Europe later this year I was devastated. So was our daughter BTW. That had nothing to do with how I reacted when I saw the OM again but maybe sub consciously (I can spell it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />) it did. I know I need to tell Rob what I want from him. We haven't had a serious talk for about a week. We need to get to the bottom of everything and really talk about it. I want Rob to be happy and I want to be happy. We have all the tools, we have all the history. I just want to make it happen. JL, I never thought I'd need your advice again. I'm very grateful for it.
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Jen, JL, if 2Long is a fossil so am I, we're the same age. So's WAT. Ah, but Jen I know what 2Long does for a living, trust me is an old fossil. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> He is so adled that he is wondering around on the wrong planet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But, I must admit it is a favorite planet of mine as well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Remember, it is not what you think but what Rob is thinking that you have to address. You need to make sure he KNOWS how you are thinking and what you think of him. I am not sure you fully understand what has happened to him, he may not either. You also said When he refused to go to meet our daughter in Europe later this year I was devastated. So was our daughter BTW. That had nothing to do with how I reacted when I saw the OM again but maybe sub consciously And why do you suppose he refused to go to Europe with you? Want to make any bets that he has a very bad taste in his about such a trip? Have you discussed this with him? I mean as to why he does not want to go? Jen, I can imagine he is one very very confused man right now. I suspect he loves you every bit as much as the day he married you, BUT he does not trust you to love and protect him. Ask him? Show him this post and see what he says. You two do need to be talking...alot. If Rob sensed something strange even then, trust me OM was in your life even then. I would guess Rob is tired of sharing you and his life with OM. And he keeps reappearing and you keep... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Jen, talk to the man, find out about what is in his heart, what is in his mind, and what he needs from you. He will have a much harder time with this now, than before. I am sure you know this. This is why he will need to see your resolve and I hope that you have gotten rid of all pictures of OM from your house and any collections you have access to. Must go it is getting late and I can no longer spell me name much less remain conscious. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> God Bless, JL
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I have to go to.
Thank you. I'll read and digest and get back to you on our progress.
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;;;;;; You know, it's funny... in all my years here (geez louize, has it really been seven?)... I have yet to meet an active WS who didn't eventually tell us what was going on.
Mmm, but you only know about all the ones that told you. Don't you think it's possible that there may have been people who were in A's who didn't tell you? Maybe they were reading and trying to process what to do without having to name their shame. Then seeing ML take action over a WS, would further encourage them to sit on their wrong doing instead of coming forward for a public flogging (as is usually the case) AND being exposed to their BS as well.
AN
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;;;;;; You know, it's funny... in all my years here (geez louize, has it really been seven?)... I have yet to meet an active WS who didn't eventually tell us what was going on.
Mmm, but you only know about all the ones that told you. Don't you think it's possible that there may have been people who were in A's who didn't tell you? Maybe they were reading and trying to process what to do without having to name their shame. Then seeing ML take action over a WS, would further encourage them to sit on their wrong doing instead of coming forward for a public flogging (as is usually the case) AND being exposed to their BS as well.
AN So now Mel's responsible for the shady tendencies of countless and nameless active WSes everywhere? Good Freakin' Grief! I just don't get the reason for beating a dead horse here...Jen has said that she is glad that Mel called and told Rob...Talk about public floggings-and for doing the RIGHT thing no less...Hello Kettle, this is Pot, you're black! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Sorry anyname, but that dawg just don't hunt! Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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LOL Mrs W. I also am staggered about the fact that this issue is still even now dragging on.
Folks - if you don't like what Mel did, build a bridge and get over it already - this is really getting tired.
I only wish that I had friends that cared so much about me when my wife was having an affair.
And ya know what? If I ever DO have an affair myself, I hope I have friends like ML and MrsW who will hold me accountable to my wife.
Oh wait. I DO have friends like them. Now.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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;;;Maybe they were reading and trying to process what to do without having to name their shame. Then seeing ML take action over a WS, would further encourage them to sit on their wrong doing instead of coming forward for a public flogging (as is usually the case) AND being exposed to their BS as well.
AN And just WHO would be responsible for this choice, anyname?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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JL, if 2Long is a fossil so am I, we're the same age. So's WAT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> When I say the OM was in my thoughts my whole marriage, I don't mean he was in the forefront of my thoughts, but yes, he was there. Rob said he always knew there was something strange when I kept all the old photos of OM and I as teenagers. As I told Pio the other night I met up with the OM twice during my marriage before the final time at the funeral and the thought of having an A with him was the furthest thing from my mind. Yes, it was good to catch up those two times but it was just two old friends. The third time at the funeral was different. It is so true that I had reached complete indifference to the OM. He is not what I want. I know I'm holding on to who he was as a young man. He's not that person now. BTW the message of the scrapbooked photographs is that I care enough about him to treat his old photos with respect and that I want memories of him. Men, honestly! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I am not settling. If I thought my future was a future of "settling" I would leave now. I want a full, honest relationship with Rob. I want us to be happy and have fun. When he refused to go to meet our daughter in Europe later this year I was devastated. So was our daughter BTW. That had nothing to do with how I reacted when I saw the OM again but maybe sub consciously (I can spell it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />) it did. Which is what JL was asking you. Does Rob know this stuff? Have you tried to tell him and show him this that you believe? You may have thought during the marriage that you harbored only a friendship. But how does Rob know that? How does he believe that? How can he? It is you that are responsible to repair what you have broken (I knwo you know this Jen...just repeating it). And you have to take on helping Rob see what he needs to see...to see the truth. Ask him what he needs, what you have to do or say to show him that all that you jsut wrote is true. Ask him. He may not knwo specifics right now. This may be an open ended question for awhile. It will be a process. But make no mistake...him getting it is your responsibility. In His arms.
Standing in His PresenceFBS (me) (48) FWW (41) Married April 1993... 4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B)) Blessed by God more than I deserve "If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"Link: The Roles of Husbands and Wives
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Kiwi,
JL is absolutely right, you have to talk. You will probably have to drag things out of him, but if you are truly open & Honest with him, let him know how important he is to you and how badly you want him in your life he will open up and things will improve. Also please remember he is a guy, not a mind reader and when it comes to emotions and feelings guys are really slow on the uptake, so tell him what you want, how you feel, etc... Not a DJ just a fact for most guys I know and work with.
Also a trip to europe is probably a major trigger for him.
Good Luck!
"Never argue with idiots or WSs, They just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
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:::: Good Freakin' Grief! I just don't get the reason for beating a dead horse here...Jen has said
You know Mrs **** Wondering, what is it you don't understand about this not being about Jen!? I am simply saying that some active WSs might miss out on help because of fear of reprisals. Now IS this a discussion forum or not? Cos if we all have to say the same thing then I'll go back to being a Jehovah's Witness because frankly it was more fun than sitting here being insulted for giving a point and not being nasty to anyone in doing it.
:::::LOL Mrs W. I also am staggered about the fact that this issue is still even now dragging on.
If you would read the 3 brief posts I made on this subject, once again, you would see that I had a POV and I made it with respect. I'm a BS .....I thought WSs need to feel safe to confess on MBs. I was wrong - I am a robot. I think the same as everyone else. WSs don't need to feel safe to confess on MBs. ** is not responsible for WSs. Am I on track now?
I am a BS and I don't feel safe on MBs. I do not think the same as everyone here and it's obvious that different POV are unwelcome. Maybe you all rejoice in thinking the same but after ten yrs of thinking the same as my "brothers in the truth" I decided to think for myself. Therefore I cannot exist in this stifling environment anymore - I must be free to think what feels right for me. Even if I am misunderstood to be supporting adultery.
Goodbye to anyone at all that I interacted with in a positive way.
::::Folks - if you don't like what *** ***, build a bridge and get over it already - this is really getting tired.
Gotcha.
AN (3.3.04 - 6.6.06)
Last edited by Justuss; 06/06/06 10:15 AM.
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Anyname,
I agree with your POV. There is something about the situation that rubs me the wrong way too but the private email relationship opened the door. I agree with you that in general when people come to MB they post with some expectation of anonymity.
If ML had an outside e-mail relationship with Jen going then must have been some kind of meeting of the minds. ML must have considered this carefully before going ahead with it.
Whether Jen and Rob are happy with the exposure is a moot point IMHO. It`s the principal of the thing that`s bothering me.
I`m not going to debate this though...this all boils down to personal boundaries. If someone from MB were to track down me or my H that would cross my personal boundaries. By the same token I would never track down an MB member. That`s my own personal boundary.
Because we all each have our own set of personal boundaries this is not an issue that all members are going to agree upon.
BS 42
WS 39
WH ONS 04/97 and EA ???-08/00
D-day for both 08/00
-Life is 10% what you make it...90% how you take it-
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Daisy, I agree there is a principle involved, and to me that principle is all about warning someone when they being harmed behind their back. I believe it would be IMMORAL not to do so and anonymity is no excuse. I believe that exposure to a victim, when he is being harmed behind his back is a MORAL IMPERATIVE that supercedes any supposed principle of "anonymity." Frankly, I don't give a damn about someone's anonymity who is destroying another person. No one is entitled to the privacy to destroy me behind my back. anyname wrote: I'm a BS .....I thought WSs need to feel safe to confess on MBs. I was wrong - I am a robot. I think the same as everyone else. WSs don't need to feel safe to confess on MBs. ML is not responsible for WSs. Am I on track now? This is correct, I am not responsible for the choice of any WS. A WS is the only person who is responsible for his choices. Hopefully, a WS NEVER feels "safe" anywhere destroying another person behind his back. If they want that, they should go to gloryb.com. But doesn't your fear beg the question that if they weren't concerned about doing the right thing, they wouldnt be posting here in the first place? They would WANT their BS to know the truth. A truly sincere WS wouldn't let wild horses drive them off. An insincere one can easily be driven off by any excuse, because they are not sincere. But it always comes back to their own choice. I find it hard to believe that you are truly concerned about resolution of affairs when you apparently didn't even want Rob to be told. Doesn't quite line up now, does up?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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p.s. I should also point out the obvious, that Jen was not anonymous TO ME. I knew her full name, town and employer because she revealed it to me. I did not break her anonymity; she did.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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i think :::Anyname:::
might be having some personal difficulties
she seems to be in pain to me
Pep
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It`s the principal of the thing that`s bothering me. It is not YOUR principles. It is not YOUR thing. It is Mel's principles (Thank God). The "thing" is hers and Jen's. They...THEY shared it with us. SHARED it. MADE IT PUB-LIC! (tater-salad) If you don't want anything but anonymity on MB, DO NOT email offline. Do not post whereabouts and locales. Do not share where you work, last name, or the names of your pets. It's THAT simple. Jen CHOSE to share this with Mel....that is a consequence OF CHOICE. Geez. You'd think it was rocket science or world peace....
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
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Yall are missng the main point that Jen was hoping someone would tell so she wouldn't have to...the fear was crippling her.
Jen posted to everyone here, emailed everyone in the hopes someone could do what she couldn't do...if you read her posts, even on this thread, she is grateful Mel phoned Rob.
Her issue on this thread wasn't the call - it was how she was feeling rejected from other forums she visits that are also marriage building = hense the word "establishment".
Jen had 3-4 weeks to tell...everyone GAVE her that chance as people here keep saying she should have got. It was time to do it.
Yall keep missing that both POV's were actually used in this situation...
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Anyname, I would be totally gutted if you decide not to post anymore. You are the only MBer I have met and shared tears with and I will miss your input here so much. TT
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