I just thought I'd tell you that my experience with my WS was and is similar to that of Mimi's.

Do you sense a difference in your H's attitude this time? Do you sense that he is more repentant and more serious about it? He sounds willing to do anything. This won't be easy because he has betrayed you yet again. But, I do believe he could 'get it' this time. Time will tell.

I had the secret cell phone discovery twice. Then after the longest A he was tempted with another opportunity to have an A and chose to in '02. (We had also attended Retrouvaille in mid '97 I think.) I was very reluctant to forgive him this last A because I thought we already did that since he went through RCIA, was an active member of the choir, and we renewed our vows in the Catholic Church in '99. But, I did.

We attended the MB weekend in March '03. If you can, I'd suggest you both go to the next one then do the follow up program. Start out having him talk to SH, or both of you doing so.

You have such little kids, I think it would be great if this time you both can really recover from this crappy infidelity and not have to go through this ever again.

I prefer Wh doing personal stuff before mc stuff. Whatever personal stuff I do he can participate in, such as Catholic education classes.

tonight we are telling FIL, MIL has to wait til this weekend I think because her schedule at work in intense and her 90 year old father's dog has cancer.

Mankind Project, New Life Ministries, and Wild At Heart all offer retreats for men with follow up assistance. MB is offering a weekend this weekend in our hometown but its too soon for me.

Loy just to give you hope, my wife and I have made it through 27 years together. My problems started back a good while ago and although I said an affair would never happen again, it did because I never got the help I needed. It happened multiple times because I had an addiction and I was screwed up mentally from some serious family problems. But when I got the counseling and saw the problems and realized where things had gone wrong I was able to get on track. For 3 years now I have been able to keep myself totally from all the habits and problems I couldn't control before. SO there is always hope.

WH sounds different, very different. I don't have to explain things to him, he is very willing.

He says he gets it. Everything fell into place and there was no more confusion, doubt as to what he should do or where he should be.

There is an opeing of a huge new national theater that has a grand opening that we are invited to. Wh doesn't want to go because OW might be there. I'm conflicted about this, because I would like to go and if they are going to get it started again, I woud rather make it happen sooner rather than later.

It's funny, I have been doing this for so long. How many marraiges have either ended or moved past this since I began?

I better do all that I can to create a wonderful and passionate life for myself.

I still say that your H sounds a lot like mine.

It took him a long time to get it...a long time to break away from her...

But once he did he hasn't turned back yet....

Your H SOUNDS sincere to me...

Help him with this if you possibly can...

IMO, definitely go along with him on this and do not go to the theater.....

I think those two little girls of yours are worth continuing to work on your marriage..

They need to grow up with their Daddy...

My opinion..

Mimi,

Thanks again for your opinion. I appreciate it.

WH has started reading relationship books now. He actually started reading one to me.

I got a letter yesterday from OW. It was extremely self righteous. All about how she was decieved and so was I, WH is the bad one, we are innocent together. I did uncover a few more lies and we had a huge conversation about openness and honesty.

In the past Wh would excuse her behavior (in this case the letter)as, "she's acting out because she's in a lot of pain" and now he sees it as an attempt to destroy our family and take back control.

She very sweetly offered to share some 30 voice mails and several text messages. She also sent me the ring that Wh had given to her in December. I

WH says she asked for a token of his affection, saying that she had never recieved anything from him. She requested something like a ring, or a necklace. So he got her a pretty ring and he made it clear that it was not a promise ring or whatever.

I am going to pawn the ring and use the money for diapers.

Also, he has keys to her apartment. Supposedly she gave him the keys after he refused them a few times. We are going to throw those away together this afternoon. Oh, and we burned the letter last night after I read it alone a couple of times, asked as many follow up questions as possible and got mad at finding more lies.

and then we painting our hallway the most aweful color in the history of the world, "Footie Pajamas." We will never again pick a color in the middle of a fight.

LOL!! I love it!!

Not much time this morning to talk to you..

I'm glad you see her for the EVIL ONE that she is....

I still haven't figured out..maybe never will...how they can stoop to participate in the destruction of families..little baby girls' lives...to satisfy their own narcisstic desires... YUK!!!

Loy,

I am usually very hard on WS and really have no sympathy for them. In the same vein, I am not a fan of enabling, appeasing BS. However, in your case, it seems that WH may have turned a corner. I say “may have” because we don’t know yet. I think he deserves one last chance. If not for him or you, then do it for your Children. They deserve a chance to have their family intact, lest having to face the emotional baggage that will inevitably come with a divorce.

As LH said, your WH’s actions suggest that he may be truly repentant this time. Time will tell.

If you decide to leave him now, could you honestly say that you did everything you could to save your M and protect your CHILDREN from having a broken home? I believe the answer is obvious.

Best wishes and good luck.

OW are unable of painting themselves into any corner but one that makes them feel better about their behaving sleazy.

they feel wronged.

what if your husband had left you? she'd be happy...that's how venemous an ow is...it is a double edged sword.

on one hand, they can turn on their lover on a dime...just like my xh's wistress wifey did last summer...

on other hand, they want to appear an innocent victim...drawn in by the evil ws...

they refuse to accept responsibility.

i would accept her offer and take all the vmails and communications in case in future, if she surfaces again, like a bad case of herpes (which I'd suspect some ow have..skanks), then I'd take em' to an attorney. good fodder and insurance imho.

but do not listen to her blabble. it is hogwash. it is the thoughts of a narcissist pig.

and she is BEING HURTFUL about the ring. she is also a shameless GOLDDIGGER...asking for a "TOKEN OF AFFECTION"? wow...she must have gone to atlanta's famous "gold-ho-digging academy for skanks.." you know, where my xh's wifey went to school. NO BRAINS ALLOWED..you must be a dunce to attend!

how cheap of her! she is angry b/c she lost. pure and simple. she turned on him b/c he didn't leave you.

end of her story.

go to the movies IF YOU FEEL LIKE IT...your WS should now do ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING TO MAKE YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE AND OK NOW...he needs to work for you...work to re-establish trust. this needs to become something he CAN'T JUST TRY TO DO..BUT MUST DO..100 PERCENT.

I am rotating between wanting to work this out and wanting to cut my losses.

WH says we can get through this together. I sorta believe him, but I am not interested in playing a fool.

He convinced me we were dealing with sexual aversion, but we were dealing with a WH.

I must be the most gullable BS on the planet. I thought the A was over. My judgement sucks.

There is a part of me that wants to have 2+ more children with him and grow old with him. Then there is the part of me that wants to accept his actions as nailing the coffin shut on our marriage and move on.

I was reading about annulments and it looks like if the spouse you want an annulment from wants to work things out, you can't get an annulment. I will be married 6 years in September. We have two daughters 3, 2. But I haven't had a husband for 3 of those years. Why now? Because I found his cell phone and all of a sudden he realized what he is about to loose?

He has talked to my parents and his father and mother (3 conversations) confessing what has happened.

Do I want him or am I just so desperate for love that I'll take him back?

I want to bring him closer and I want to push him away.

I haven't been able to woo him for 3 years. I have been patient and understanding, and starved for affection.

I am mad, mad, mad, sad.

How dare he talk to me in ways that give me hope!

I don't want to believe in love or marriage or family!

Screw him. I believe in marraige. Damn. I don't want to do this. I don't want to be hurt. I can't give up, so maybe I can drive him away again? He only needs to slip once and I'm free.....

How twisted am I? I am free anyway. I don't have to do anything. Just because he now wants to work on this does it mean that I have to. My deciscion can stand alone from his, and perhaps should.

I don't know if I can give up the dream of keeping our family together. But I am tempted to try.

I do not beleive that a WS can love a BS. They sacrificed us for their own pleasure and happiness.

but I'm still in limbo....

you're normal

I tried to pawn the ring and they would only give me $5.

normal normal bonormal, banana fanna bonormal, fe fi fo normal; nor-MAL.

Well, right now you don't have to decide anything. Breathe easy, and realize that for TODAY, you don't have to do anything. Your WH will reveal his true intentions and committment to you. Three years of this $hit is NOT something you are going to get over in a three weeks.

Your anger and hurt and other feelings are NORMAL, and actually are a good sign. That means you care. If you didn't feel the way you do...then I would be seriously concerned for any chance of recovery.

Lem

I care. Dern.

I am so glad I have a dog now. I think having a pet or plant or something should definately be on a recovery check list.

Rico is the best.

This was another D-Day for you. I had more than one..not exactly sure how many. The nature of the WS..wanting the fantasy to last as long as possible..

Exposure makes the affair ugly and nasty for the infidel ...

What you do in the DARK...eventually comes out into the LIGHT...

Loy, you seem like a great person. I really LIKE you. You are in my prayers.

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I go up and down a lot between hope and doom. Wh is there to provide support.

It seems almost impossible for me to leave someone who says they want to work it out. I would love to have a WH that was committed to his wife and children and I also want a life without lies. How much time to I give WH to prove this?

Am I giving up if I quit now?

[color:"blue"] Am I giving up if I quit now? [/color]

word games

"Am I quiting if I give up now?"

MAY I SUGGEST

What you really want to quit is

pain
insecurity
doubt
shame
fear

guess what you need ?????

(don't get mad)

you need an f'ing PLAN for recovery

Pep

for recovery?
a plan for recovery?

it hard for me to think of recovery when I know it's imposible as long as the affair is going on - and wh has said it's over again and again.

I am afraid to suspend my disbelief of this recovery attempt right now because then I will just fall flat on my face again.

It's getting to be a lot like Lucy pulling the ball away from Charlie Brown just as he runs to kick it.

Maybe it's Lucy's turn to kick.

And what about forgiveness, Loy
... for someone who is repentant?