I will always have hope and I'm not going down without a fight, I will battle to the end.

Dear JJ!


You repeatedly write that you love her very much and will do EVERYTHING for her. You also repeatedly ask what you can do. YET you seem to ignore the most potent tool offered to by numerous posters in this thread.
[color:"blue"]When experienced people here advice you to expose her A to her family and friends that is not because they love drama! It is because exposure is the most powerful tool in the BS toolbox. PERIOD![/color]


The A is an addiction and an intoxication. The WS lives in a fantasy world. This fantasy is very powerful (as long at is lasts). Here in MB this unreal world is called fog. The only way you can blow away some of the fog is by forcing the WS to relate to reality. To show that choices have consequences. You do this by exposing the A to people who's opinion is important to the WS. The WS then have to relate to the reality, at least when she meets these people. Also expose to the people most important to the OM. In particular you should expose to his W if he is M-ed.


Many BS's are reluctant to expose, and they delay too long. They fear that this will be the final nail in the coffin of their M. That is not so. On the contrary:


1) Forcing the WS to relate to reality is the only hope for a new beginning.
2) Enabling the A as you do now is an almost certain receipt for failure.
3) Being perceived like a "wimp" is not a good start for a H to win his W back. She may hate and rage after being exposed, but a firm exposure will earn her respect.
4) Do not fear hate. Fear indifference. Hate is not a fraction as powerfull a love killer as indifference is. And indifference will be the result if you continue to enable the A.


But, will she not be MAD if she is exposed?
You can bet! There will be some days with pure ****** and evil. You will hear that now "you have ruined everything". "Now D is certain". You will learn that you are the Devil incarnate...


Be strong and detached, you have noting left to loose and much to gain. Do not let her whip you into submission and acceptance of her A.


Repeat: You have noting left to loose and much to gain! Stand up and be strong (in a loving manner).


By the way: Do NOT pre warn or threat about exposure. Do it, don't talk about it. Pre warning renders the tool much less effective. Do not warn her!


There is a book called "Love must be though". I strongly recommend that book to you. It is written for situations like yours. And it supplements well the Harley books IMO.

You're getting great advice, JJ...

This is almost word for word standard wayward junk:

"Well I saw her tonight, and she said she couldnt choose me over him, and that she wants to be with him, and doesnt want to be with me, how do I continue, she says there is nothing left in our relationship to fight for. that she doesnt like hurting me and doesnt want to continue to hurt me, and that i will always hold this over her head."

I want you to get this really straight in your head...take four deep breaths and then then look at what she's saying...

She couldn't chose...that's a lie. Humans choose. She is choosing clean slate over history slate...because she's skewed her history slate...this isn't about choosing OM over you. It's not. There's no comparison. She is choosing fantasy over reality.

Period.

The EN you thought you'd identified was to be understood...sometimes, we mix that up with "accepted" and they are two different creatures.

"I hear you are choosing OM instead of your husband. I hear you want to be with him."

Next, she abuses you ... do not allow this to continue. Not part of Plan A at all.

"When you said there is nothing left in our relationship to fight for, you cross my boundaries of respect. Do not abuse me. I believe we have 13 years worth examining and changing for...I hear you do not believe this."

"I hear you do not like hurting me and do not want to continue to hurt me, is that correct? And I respect you understand that this is a fantasy...humans hurt one another, they destroy one another through adultery, lies, evasion. You are choosing to do this...there are alternatives. You have other choices. We all do."

(This is what you can have in your head...most likely not what to say now...know this truth for you, for now.)

"and that i will always hold this over her head."

"You are again defining what is not in your control, only mine. Stop. It's abusive. I hear you fear I will hold your adultery against you. I understand your fear."

And leave it.

Be strong, JJ...define your life...not others'. See what she does is what you used to do...no longer do that. Can you get this? DJs kill relationships...takes two to do them, also...until one stops...and gets out of the way of the other...

Hold respect first in your head...listen and repeat...put that hopper on your head that holds all her words and do NOT allow them to enter your brain, your heart, even your body, until you respect these are her truths, not THE truth...not yours.

Information.

Then you build respect for yourself, your ability to not self-betray by believing what she does over what you do...

Stay separate and equal...really listen and repeat. Hand back her words, emphasizing choice and no arguments.

LA

She has not contributed to our money in a month, and now her bills are due, should I stop the payment to them bc she has her own account, which she uses to do whatever, I fear retaliaion by not paying her bills.

Find out your marital rights and responsibilities in your state.

Martial debt means debt that was incurred for the marriage while living together...I don't know your laws...best you find out if you are liable...if her non-payment of bills will affect your credit score...

This is an important issue...and I urge you to view money issues as they are...an emotional needs...financial security...not as anything but what it is...

to you.

LA

I guess I'm sort of confused now, bc I know she wants a divorce and if I say you aren't welcome here anymore until you end your affair, I feel like that is an ultimatum.

Did you read my previous post to you about separating your finances? I did that and my WH didn't divorce me. I still have separate finances...after 15 years NOT having them separate...it's not an LB...if you both agree.

Now, let's look at ultimatums versus boundary enforcements.

If your boundary is no adultery in your marriage, that's around you...you won't have an affair while married. You can't stop your spouse. However, if they choose to continue their A, you can enforce your boundary by saying, "This is our marital home. Unless you choose to end your A, then you are choosing to not come home."

See the difference? I agree--tough stuff to view--can even feel like spinning instead of truth. Still truth.

Waywards say they want a divorce...and then they don't file, don't take all the steps, and do it...do they want it? Well, they can say it. No reason for you to live by it.

Adulterers aren't welcome in your home, if that's your boundary. Her choice remains. You're respecting it. It's your marital home, isn't it? Where you both lived together, without the adultery, for years? (Be it an apt, trailer, anywhere)...wouldn't you not making this your boundary enforcement mean you're supporting her adultery? Condoning is welcoming her back, regardless of choice?

Be strong, JJ...in truth, not retaliation. You're used to the other kind of living...which makes us slaves in relationships, not free..."If you do this, I'll do this..." stuff. You're not doing that.

Know why this isn't her getting a new boyfriend? Starting an new relationship? BECAUSEE SHE'S MARRIED. Vows matter. That's why it is an affair. She's married. You're married. The marriage itself has boundaries...this is one of them.

Two people. Only.

She can want a divorce all day long...until she acts, it won't happen. You protecting your money, using a lawyer, even filing for separation to protect what you two had (in the marriage) isn't a love buster...it IS love.

You want to welcome back your loving W to your home; not the WW, the alien who's been abducted, do you?

LA

I guess I'm just stubborn, I'm really trying very hard to learn and grow, growing as always been a weak point for me. She is coming tonight to get the rest of her things. I have to be strong and not explode again. I know exactly about she says she wants a divorce but does nothing to do it, she says she is scared of what my reaction will be, I think it is more that she will have to realize that she has almost certainly lost me good. And she tells me that our relationship is the one based on lies and dishonesty not her realationship with him. Isnt that just bull. And I guess I really do fear indifference bc then I realize she doenst really care.

Well tonight she removed most of her personal effects, and left me a letter "I cannot begin to tell you how sorry I am for everything that I have done. I know I did the most horrible thing I could ever done to you and it will take a lifetime to forgive myself. You are a wonderful man and none of this is your fault. No matter how perfect you were, you couldn't fix what is wrong with me. I am so sorry for everything and I never want to hurt you again. I know you will be better off once I am gone and once you let yourself let go. I love you and always will." I don't know what to make of it, still fog speak?

What kind of friends give moral support for leaving your husband for a man you had an affair with? How am I the bad guy for loving my wife and wanting a long loving life with her?

Well exposure doenst seem to have worked, it seems to have strenghted their relationship,

Hi! JJames30

I been reading all your posts since day one, if you read mine you will find that we are living the same thing, many things that is happening to you, are the same things that are happening to me! probably we can communicate in other way so we can share things! what you think? my thread is Please! I need all your Advice!

Gustav

It seems like the only joy I get now is reading these posts, and realizing I'm not alone, I have my first phone session with Steve next tuesday, hoping he can give me some really good advice on Plan A from afar.

Glad to see this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All the best,

-HD

Great to see you, JJ...we get a lot out of you posting, you know. It's a two-way street...relief in not knowing we're alone, either...

"I guess I'm just stubborn, I'm really trying very hard to learn and grow, growing as always been a weak point for me."

What is it that is very hard? Do you fear change? Changing? Being changed?

As far as her letter...she believes she is broken, defective...and she's right, you can't change that about her. Your Plan A matters greatly, though...she will continue to go from man to man to man, for that quick, temporary (false) fix of getting to pretend what she is not, and you remain the northstar, loving her, anyway--if you choose. She believes she should be thrown away and engineers her own destruction...when you don't play along, you will break her expectation...or not. Her choice.

I think it's a marvelous decision to call Steve Harley...and stay the course by choice, not reaction. You really do rock, JJ...and I think you may acquire a taste for growth when you give yourself the kudos you have earned in your choices...

"I have to be strong and not explode again."

Eliminating your LB's is a way of caring for yourself...if you revoke your permission to AO, DJ and SD her (others), then you also revoke your permission to do those to yourself...which is great self-care, don't you think?

You allow yourself to explode, even feel like it, from permissions (from beliefs) you give yourself. When you have thoughts containing these any of these words, "deserving, entitled, warranted, your due" then they are signalling you of that permission...and if you think about it, those are the very words waywards use to choose to cheating...so they are like cheating yourself.

Watch your own DJ's...like the one about if she acts indifferent, she doesn't care. You determine what you believe...and you don't know what she feels, what she's choosing to believe, or thinking. She is in a fog and can't explain it herself...don't go where you have no right or control. Make your choices from your code, not her possible/probable reaction. Then you're being true to yourself, living love, not just feeling it.

I know you are rippling around the world. Thank you very much for being here.

LA

Yeah I'm trying to be very patient, but patience hasnt always been my thing, and I am afraid of change and growth, very difficult for me, when something is not easy, i did post a blog on my myspace account about what she has done but i took it down, bc i didnt feel like anyone would read it, I am really looking forward to tuesday. Things are starting to make a whole lot of sense now. Do they ever come out of the fog?

Now OM has some posting on his myspace page about her being a wonderful woman and how it is so great to be with her then more good times when they go to bed. I'm livid.

Oh, JJ...

Learn not to hurt yourself. Learn not read lies and fantasy and take them as truth.

You took your blog down because you thought no one would read it? So other people's interest, which you have no way of ascertaining, determines your life? Your truth?

I had to learn patience, as well. With myself. Others. What wasn't in my control and what was...worth the price of admission, JJ. There is no peace without patience.

Find your patience...find the words of encouragement in your brain which will aid you in thinking BEFORE you take a harmful action to yourself...your heart...your head. Your self.

Ask "why do I want to do this, know this?" Find out what you believe and what you hope for; find out if either is healthy or childish, because pain puts us back into our child-state, and there's no reasonable living that way, is there?

LA

I guess I have some sort of self sabotage mode, going on. It just seems like I take one step forward and 2 steps back, like I'm in denial, I know my truth, I just want her to realize her truths, and live in reality. But you are right I dont have control of other peoples truths only mine,

jj,

You really should stay away from those MySpace pages. They are probably posting them on there now knowing that you are reading them. And in the OM's case, he's doing everything he can right now to destroy whatever love you have left for your wife so that you will never want her back if things start to go bad between them (which the odds say will happen).

Do yourself a favor. Try and find another distraction that is more productive until you have your appointment with Steve on Tuesday. Do some golfing, gardening, reading, TV, movies, etc. I used to do a lot of reading and watching sports. I also used to spend time walking through parks and just getting outdoors. The point is, right now you want to do anything but going on the internet and pulling up those pages!

All the best,

-HD