After months of focusing on the problem and why this all happend, I now realize that I need to make some change soon. H and I have been LB - mostly arguing with AO, DJ, and SD for a week and a half. We have had no time together in the past two week due to overtime, #2 job on H's part, and a new class he is taking. We are both very upset right now. I am feeling like throwing in the towel and I know he would leave if it weren't for the kids or the fact that he has no were to go and no money. I know that H needs to stay to live comfortably and that is what I want. I want to have the family that we dreamed of. I want to love him the right way and vise versa. No more fooling around, action needs to start tody- okay tomorrow- H will not be home until 10 then has to wake up at 2 to go to manditory overtime. I began to read five steps to romantic love today. I am wondering if we can just start with one LB and work on it and then move to the next? i think LB work needs to start right away as we have depleted our banks from LB since the A ended. WOW, this is going to be hard work!


Any suggestions on what you do when you are angry, or how to get moving in a positive direction, or how to get past hurtful things and DJ that H has saidand says, and move forward.

I also want to thank Pep in says thanks for commenting "what would you learn about yourself if you left your husband now?" the other day. I was so upset, i think I was unable to think straight. It may have taken me a few days, but now I know what you said makes sense. Thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I would have learned that anger would get the best of me- and "when anger wins, love loses"-Harley

thanks for the thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I had no pre-conceived answer to that question ....

your answer could have been ~~~> "I learned I am healthy enough to walk away when necessary."

or

"I learned I don't want to face the uphill battle to breathe life back into my marriage."

We each answer to ourselves in the end. And, to our God.

but I was trying to give you a tool you could use in making future decisions as well

every big decision we make speaks about us

we pay attention, we learn

Pep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

"Any suggestions on what you do when you are angry, or how to get moving in a positive direction, or how to get past hurtful things"

You have to decide what to do based on your situation. What really causes the anger? Of course I am not talking about the A itself. If for instance you feel like he is not listening to you and that is why you get angry you need to address that issue first. There probably won't be a positive outcome to any conversation if you feel he is not listening to you.

For lack of a better way to explain it you need to find and treat the disease not the symptoms.

For me I realized I got angry with my FWW because when we were in a conversation if I misworded something she would take a detour on a non issue for a half an hour. I could say something to her in a clear manner and she would say she didn't understand so I repeated it. Then I was accused of treating her like an idiot. So what I did is I started writing her letters. I took a great deal of time and made sure I was clear, I made sure the wording would be acceptable to her. Then I would e-mail it to her and ask her to read it at least twice.

I now had proof of what I said so it could not be taken out of context later. This defused a lot of situations for me. But the root of the problem was her trying to avoid the conversation and by acting like she didn't understand or taking us on the detour she could say. "We have talked about this for an hour now I need a break."

So figure out what makes you angry and avoid that situation if possible. If that doesn't work take a time out. I refuse to play the game that she tries to make me angry so the conversation could stop because I was being mean to her.
I take a time out walk away have a smoke and come back when I have calmed down.

Hi cfc, I don't post much but read almost every post. Hopefully I can provide some positive feedback. Here are a couple of verses to meditate on.

1Cor 13:4-8 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails.

-Almost everyone has read this but do they really understand it?

Here is one of Websters definitions of Love:

1 a (1) : strong affection for another arising out of kinship or personal ties <maternal love for a child> (2) : attraction based on sexual desire : affection and tenderness felt by lovers (3) : affection based on admiration, benevolence, or common interests <love for his old schoolmates> b : an assurance of love <give her my love>

By the Webster's definition almost everyone on the planet could say they loved at one time or another. But what if the definition was
1 Corinthians 13:4-8? Could we all say that we have truly loved even one person in our entire life?

I am not here to give you a sermon, I just think if more people, both husbands and wives, would meditate on this verse and what it really means and then try to apply it every minute of everyday, that most would be much happier and their marriages would be so much stronger.

God Bless
OAM

if I misworded something she would take a detour on a non issue for a half an hour" and " by acting like she didn't understand or taking us on the detour she could say", "We have talked about this for an hour now I need a break." -

My H engages in this and in saying things that are not productive or hurtful to stop or change the conversation (he disguises this by saying you want me to be honest). For example he will say, I think that you are a crazy nut. My normal response would be that I am not and I don't like him to call me names as this is not helpful in resolving the issues. His response is that I want him to be honest and that he is honestly telling me what he thinks. He also uses, you don't trust me, to change the conversation, and "I can't remember", and I need some alone time because i am upset (all discussed in SAA).

All in all, these things are the reason that I become angry through frustration. All of these things make me feel un-loved by H.

Even though that H does these things, I still love him.

My plan is show him the love that he deserve no matter what. I need to give myslef to my Husband as one last effort to make this marriage work. I want him to understand that I am putting him first. My goal is to hopefully start to put him back on the track to loving me. I think once that we reach this stage, I will be able to help him understand his ways and how we can work together to be harmonious. Hence, I said that I think that this will be a difficult thing for me.

I will need to stop LB at all cost and try to meet his needs exclusively. Until I can do this under the worst situation (which we are in) I will never be able to show H that I truly loved him. That of course is the reason why He must have had the affair- He felt unloved.

Until I do this, I can't say that I have truly loved another. Because I have been too self focused "Could we all say that we have truly loved even one person in our entire life?" - For me i think this answer is no. The gift of Love is so strong and prevailing that I think that I haven't been able to give myself- forgetting my needs to reach out to my H- even when he is being difficult. I am always looking to see how he feels to make my decsion. This is a defense reaction being hurt so many times in my life (I look out for myself). Looking out for yourself is important toO! Of course that is what H should be doing for me.

Now I am in the position to start making things go in the right direction. Last night I met H at the door, gave him a foot bath, foot massage, and a back massage after his 16 hour day!I sympathized with his hours and tried to provide him comfort. He was very confused as we have been anrguing lately and he wasn't expecting this (teeheehee) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Today I am going to have the house perfect when he gets home. And have a nice lunch ready- he is coming home early to spend time with our Brother in Law.

Still any ideas to aviod LB would be helpful. Or how to keep moving in a positive direction. 1 day down with success!

WOW!! CFC If you stay diligent in this attitude, this servants mind set, you will not believe the blessings that it will garner for you and your marriage. Dieing to self is one of the hardest things anyone will ever do. It goes against everything we have been taught or see on TV. But it is what God wants from everyone of us.

Don't give up "Love never Fails", put your faith in the Lord when you feel discouraged.

God Bless
OAM

P.S. HAHA I just saw that my original post was all messed up...hence the reason I don't post much LOL

"My H engages in this and in saying things that are not productive or hurtful to stop or change the conversation (he disguises this by saying you want me to be honest). For example he will say, I think that you are a crazy nut. My normal response would be that I am not and I don't like him to call me names as this is not helpful in resolving the issues. His response is that I want him to be honest and that he is honestly telling me what he thinks. He also uses, you don't trust me, to change the conversation, and "I can't remember", and I need some alone time because i am upset (all discussed in SAA)."

OK I would like for your FWH to stop talking to my FWS. They seem to be comparing notes and using the same exact BS.

They are all diversion tactics which lead you into an hour long conversation about nothing.

Thats why I write the letters. I get to say what I want without interuption and without being called a nut. My wife says I am crazy and I have anger issues. LOL. Meanwhile she is the one that has the anger issues. LOL

Try writing down your thought to him. I use word on the computer that way I can make plenty of revisions to word it perfectly.

Stick to I statements not you statements. In other words don't say you flirt too much. Say I am hurt by the way you flirt. Make it about you.

Until you start some type of communication that moves forward you will keep coming back to this same place.

LOL LOudly- Thanks I do enjoy your post as my H and your FWW are like soul mates. LOL

I have wrote to him and done the same thing, BUT he just ignores my letters to says he can't understadn what I am saying- hurting less, you can relate.

I hope that I am strong enough to continue the goal I have set. Because right now I don't care if this is his behavior. I need to step above the minor issue to look at the real issue- he feels un-loved. After that is addressed and he feels secure in himself and us, I can begin to address the BS (not betrayed spouse-isn't that ironic?) And i definately will. I haven't set the plan on how to do this yet, as making him see the error of his ways will be a struggle. Only he can make change. I hope that if he sees that he loves me enough, then this will be motivation to make change.


OnAmishn, thanks for the support. I too belive that doing this will show love in the deepest way. That can only bring back love. As I feel that you reap what you sow. I am not a church goer, but believe putting faith into what you wish to accomplish brings peace. I live by the words of the bible as they are a wonderful guide. HOwever I haven't heard: Dieing to self. Could you define that to me. and any other scripture that you have read that would be motivating.

My quote at the bottom is from the Pope before he died. I loved it and so I cut it out and put in onto my computer. I would read it and think how beautiful. I didn't know why it meant so much to me until I confronted H about the A. I then knew that these were to be the words that I would look to for saving my marriage. I have had so many obstacles to hurdle and I have gotten caught up in the way I felt a lot. It is hard to fight the bad feeling inside during the aftermath of an A.


Oh OnAmishn, what is your story? Has anything here helped you to learn to be a better person?


To other Mbers- please let me know if you have had any good strategies you have used to continnue moving in the right direction. I would greatly appreciate it as I respect each of you and your desire to make a change in your lives.

"And i definately will. I haven't set the plan on how to do this yet, as making him see the error of his ways will be a struggle."

You cannot make him see the error of his ways! Do not make the mistake thinking you can.

That is why you use I statments when talking or writing. My FWW tells me she doesn't agree with my letters in most cases. I ask her what specifically she doesn't agree with. Just some stuff is her usual response. I say then please highlight what it is you don't agree with and we can discuss it. I then also tell her I am not looking for her agreement on any issue I want her to understand how it makes me feel. I do not need her to agree with me that I should feel like crap about something. I do and as long as she is aware of that she should make an attempt to not do that something or work toward a positive resolution.

She has never highlighted anything or discussed it. So there you go. What she doesn't agree with then is me bringing up what happened.

I know that I can't make him change, but I wrote:, "as making him see the error of his ways will be a struggle. Only he can make change. I hope that if he sees that he loves me enough, then this will be motivation to make change." I think that showing him love will make him want to make change. If he truly loves me, then he will do whatever to make me happy, as I will do for him. Bobpure wrote something about squid regarding how long it took her to see the error of her ways, but he continued to love her. I hope that my situation takes the same course. All I am saying is that I now think that I am prepared for this. Maybe I am finally in recovery. I am ready to love H no matter what.

Let's hope H will join me soon!

There you go.

I want my FWW to join me as well. I hope she does.

I have been very good to her since I met her and I think she knows that.

I think she knows our M has been good but what I don't think she knows or realizes that this is not just going to go away. We need to work through it and if she is not willing to do that then it is what it is.

I agree with that! H think that if we are just happy everything else will be fine!

This is my strategy to know that I have done the very best for my marriage and if it doesn't work, then I will have to move on. But I think it will.

Have you felt like you have done everything? Is FWW recovered from drinking? What does she think about MB? H thinks that he is too tough for it. That is why I love to see other men posting.

Have you felt like you have done everything?

I feel like I haven't done everything but I think I have done a lot. I know if I sat down and wrote it down on a piece of paper my efforts would outweigh her efforts. I think she has two ways of resolving this issue. Get a D or Get over it. I think there is middle ground and I am trying to get her to see that.

Is FWW recovered from drinking? She is not drinking now since 1.1.06

What does she think about MB? H thinks that he is too tough for it. That is why I love to see other men posting.

My wife does not like MB or anything else that brings up her actions. Again the get a D or get over it. She knows her BS wouldn't fly here. I told her when I first started coming her that I did. Negative reaction on her part and she won't even bring it up. But she knows I come.

Funny thing is to me this is a support group like her AA is for her. She gets to talk to her sponsor who knows our lives better then I do and I need people to talk to as well. I tried to get her to come but we are all "crazy" here. LOL

I am trying to get her to see that"- I thought you said- "You cannot make him see the error of his ways! Do not make the mistake thinking you can.", but yet you are trying the same thing that I am.

I think we need to not fool ourselves. BOth FWS need to see the light. And our goal is to show them. My strategy is showing him love until he feels like returning love. When he does, I will show him how to use MB to work through our problems without doing the things above.

I hope that this works as it is an investment in self. I guess that can never be bad. Just disappointing when the S doesn't return the feeling.

That is the main reason that I am posting. I want to know what others have done to make change in their relationships. What has worked for them.


My H neeeds admiration, recreational companionship, and family commitment. He says I do well with the last, he would like more of the middle and I need to honesty reflect on the first. How do you admire someone who acted the way that H did? I think I will have to admire him in other things besides morals (as he is lacking in that area lately). It used to be his strong suit. Oh he says I admire him just not the way he likes it. Sorry just rambling now. Posting helps keep my head clear!

Hah you caught me. LOL I am a hypocrite.

What I meant is over time I will start pushing for the middle ground between those two extremes. I am making a little headway but nothing all that great. In doing so I will show her not make her see that it is not that bad.

I can show her what it can be like but I can never her make her see it. She might close her eyes, put her fingers in her ears and go la la la I can't see it and I don't hear you. LOL

I should be ashamed of myself for saying that.

So you are showing him now you have to wait to see if he "sees it"

Just like I think that you are doing- My H is refusing to see it. he has a hard time being big enough to admit his faults. The most he has said is that he never meant to hurt me. And was sorry for me being hurt, but not because of his actions? I can't explain that anymore?!! H has also said that he is to blame for everything- specifically that he should have told me that he didn't love me somewhere in the past ten years. He said he was hoping that eventually that he would love me. He was playing a role to not hurt my feelings. I felt all fog talk. He continues to make comments like this all the time. That is another reason it makes it hard for us to recover.


So to answer your Q without rambling like you know I do. Yes, I am showing him how much I love him and what that feels like. When I begin to see him give back-which I have seen on and off since D-day, I will shower him with admiration. I will read with him the recovery section of the SAA book and try to workon one issue at a time. Have you read five steps to romantic love the workbook to go with the love busters and HNHN book. I want to work through that with H. Of course I will need to come to a compromise with H about this I know!

There are so many wonderful people on this website, I is sad to think that they each have encountered so much tradgedy!- just thinking out loud.

Do you think that you WS will ever come around? Oh and have you ever done MC?

"Do you think that you WS will ever come around? Oh and have you ever done MC?"

If I were truly honest with you the answer is no, I don't think she will but I am not willing to give up yet.

My FWW still exhibits problematic behavior in our relationship that so far she has not realized is causing damage.

I went to two MC's but decided to stop going when they made it quite clear they could not help us if we were not going to be honest. They both indicated they believed I was being honest. I got to the point where I wasn't going to spend my time and money treating symptoms and not the disease. The MC's basically said that until we can do that we are going no where.

I am now at a point that I believe MC has a chance in our relationship. Remember my FWW is an alcoholic and she just started the 12 steps 6 months ago.

That is another reason for not going to an MC. She needed to get her addiction addressed before our M.