Sex in Plan A? Yes, or no?

Yes, except when you shouldn't. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It's not that simple, IMHO.

Is the affair a PA - or likely is?

Are you a male or female?

If you're a male, is your spouse "fixed" or reliably on contraceptives?

WAT

This is a controversial topic here.

I did it knowingly and purposefully as part of the PLAN.

Sex is described as one of the ten needs.

Plan A is about meeting needs to the best of your ability, showing the (F)WS that YOU are the best option.

You should never do anything that risks your health.

Taking these facts, if the A was physical, then ensure the WS is clean and protect yourself from STDs. Once you have ensured this step, sex is a valid need to attempt to meet.

My 2 cents

Our former MC advised me against having SF with my wife, even though there was no physical contact between her and the OM (though NC was nowhere near being established).

His reasoning was that by meeting her need for SF when she had not yet committed to our marriage, I was leaving myself open to more emotional hurt and abuse, and I would not be giving her much reason to go NC.

My reasoning was diferent. SF (along with non-SF physical touch) is probably in my wife's top 3 ENs. It was one of the ENs that I was sorely lacking in meeting prior to the A. So yes, while I was leaving myself vulnerable to more hurt, I was also demonstrating a willingness and an ability to meet an EN of hers that had not been met well in a very long time.

If I had refused SF with my wife, or even physical affection, it would have told her that nothing much had changed, so why bother to even consider recommitting to the marriage?

Our former counselor and I never were able to see eye-to-eye on this issue (it's one of several reasons why he's now our former counselor).

Long example. Short answer? It depends on the situation, what the BS is willing to give, what the WS is willing to accept, and what health risks may be present.

Generally, I don't see how SF during an A between the BS and WS is bad. After all - you are, in many ways, competing for your mate via Plan A (as well as improving yourself). Why not compete in the area of sex too?

Honestly, It's a personal thing. If the affair is an active PA then for me, for my part, I will never share. You are really asking for a cake eating spouse if he/she is getting SF from 2 partners.

It is a personal choice.

I have disagreed with MIMI for example and even gone so far as to call advising BSs to fill that need irresponsible.

MIMI called me on the disrespectfull attack [sorry mimi] of assuming that MY perspective is the correct one.

Personally..I vote no..but I do absolutely see that it is a missed opportunity with regard to meeting ENs.

Basically..you have to weigh the pros and cons and decide what risks you are willing to take and what losses.

Well said, Noodle.

I agree with this.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I have no problem at all calling people who advise BS's to have sex in "high risk" situations as irresponsible. No problem at all. This would be the same thing if I called a colleague cardiologist irresponsible because he was advising his angioplasty patients to smoke cigarettes (as long as their filtered... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />). Absolutely ridiculous.

IN the end though, people should be responsible for their own actions. If a BS has SF with a wayward spouse (in an attmept to meet their needs) and ends up contracting Herpes or Chlamydia or HPV, then I simply DON'T want to hear an iota of sorrow afterward. This subject has been brought up enough that people should know that if they choose to have Sex with an actively cheating spouse, they are also having sex with EVERY partner of every partner of every partner of the OW/OM. If you engage in these activities, then you better be ready and willing to live with Herpes or HPV....or God forbid...HIV for the rest of your life.

To those people who are...then I even say go right ahead and don't look back.....I have NO problem not "imposing" my view on those who make that choice.

Lem

"Basically..you have to weigh the pros and cons and decide what risks you are willing to take and what losses."

Just be sure to factor in the possibility of getting AIDS. For some reason, most WS's don't think about safe sex. They seldomly use protection.

As an FWW I would say very, very definitely yes. To be rejected for SF is telling your (foggy) WS that, yep, I was right all along to have an A because I'm never getting SF again in my M.

We had SF the night of d-day and every day following for about 3 months. It would have been terrible for both of us to have been rejected by the other spouse.

But then, that's us. SF is the top EN for both of us.

As I said before, this was a deliberate choice that I made, knowledgeable of the risks involved.

For me, the pros outweighed the cons.

For me, the odds were definitely in my favor that I would not contract HIV/AIDS...for many reasons unnecessary to specify here..

It was a personal decision.

I'm no longer strongly advocating it for everyone.

As a mentally competent adult, you do have the option to make such decisions...even in a hospital setting..just like terminal cancer patients have the right to refuse chemotherapy/radiation to prolong their lives. They must decide whether or not the risks of the side effects of the procedures are worth the negative impact on the time that they have left to live.

For me, saving my marriage was worth the risk.I thought long and hard about this. I can't say whether or not others would or should make the same decision that I did. I knew full well that the odds of my H returning to me would definitely increase significantly if he knew that I would be able and more than willing to meet his SF need. This was a need that I had been sorely failing to meet prior to the A but when I did I was able to far surpass the OW... Remembering those times during PLAN B, my H craved and wanted ME..not just the SF but the EMOTIONAL INTIMACY with him that went along with it....

Another consideration, which is why I asked the original poster if he/she was male or female, if the WS is a female and is also boinking the OM, who's the Daddy when the WS becomes PG? This argues for either no sex or some form of contraceptive.

WAT

That argument would NOT be worth my life...sorry. But that's just me.


This goes back to the orginal controversy. Is it worth it to someone to risk getting AIDS, Herpes, Chlamydia, HPV, etc...while giving these "needs" to a cheating spouse? For Mimi, for your husband....apparently so. Nothing at all wrong with that if made by a rational sane adult.

However, I think it is WANTONLY wrong to advise practicing these acts without ANY mention of the risks involved...(A fact that still continues on the official section of the site despite at least 3 emails inquiring about it).

My EX-FIL had a heart attack and needed emergency bypass surgery to save his life....guess what? he went back to smoking after a few months....he "needed" it to relax and manage the stresses of life. He had another heart attack 6 months later. A very good friend of mine was his cardiologist.....he later fired my EX-FIL as a patient. Now that is behavior I admire. Sometimes the most caring doctors are those that many of us would call "mean" or "rude" or "insensitive".

Again.....it is perfectly ok with me if someone chooses to expose their body to the potential disease of a OP/WS....it is NOT perfectly ok to continue to advise meeting these "needs" without BOLDFACING the risks involved. Many a BS still "don't get it" as they read the plans advocated here by the authors of the site....they see NO MENTION of those risks, so they easily can assume that it is "ok" to do this.

And before anyone starts using the old...."they know the risks"..I say BS. Ask the 40,000 people who contracted HIV last year. I would bet a dollar or two that they "knew" to.

Lem

Lem, of course you are right. So is everyone else who has mentioned STDs.

I will add a caveat. Yes, it IS important but only if you know you are safe.

I think it is a disgrace that people keep telling BS to have sex with their WS without mentioning in the same post the need to get STDs tests before having unprotected sex.

Just a disgrace!

UVA..

An std test is more or less worthless if taken under 3 months from the last exposure.

It isn't really considered valid until 6 months after.

You need two full batteries..one at 3 months..one and 6.

Even this may not catch everything.

Personally..STD is a deal breaker for me.. we did not have SF or any intimate contact..in fact I set him up in the guest room with a seperate bathroom even.

That should give you an idea of how seriously I take disease.

However..six months minimum is a VERY long time to withhold this usually crucial EN.

Noodle, everything you say is correct...however, 6 months is NOTHING compared to a lifetime of having to deal with "breakouts" from herpes ulcers, or a lifetime of worrying about getting cervical cancer because you have HPV warts. That is what I find so incredulous about these threads. The complete lack of self dignity or self love in people doing this to themselves......as if 6 months is anything in the grand scheme of a healthy life. I will never get this. Never. I know that people don't like talking about this reality (6 monyhs of abstinence) ...because lets be honest, it goes in DIRECT CONTRAST to doing what is advised on this site in meeting needs of the cheating spouse.

The ONLY safe sex in this situation is ABSTINENCE or ABSTINENCE for 6 months while undergoing testing. This will need to continued being hammered home so people finally "get it".

I agree with UVA...it is indeed disgraceful. The work is not done.

Lem

Noodle,

Please note that I mention STD tests should be taken before unprotected sex. So until a BS can confirm that his or WS is free of any STD, the BS is very foolish, in my not so humble opinion, to engage in unprotected SF with the WS.

In any event, each must make his or her own decision. My point here is that when advising a BS to engage in SF with his or her WS, it is irresponsible to fail to mention the possibility of STD from the SF.

There is no such thing as safe sex UVA.

If you are having any sort of intimate contact with a WS you are literally gambling with your life.