Bob:

My WW has apologized for her affair but also said the affair was just a symptom of my neglect of her. I admit I have lived a very busy lifestyle the past few years, but she was also extremely busy in various activities. Her most enjoyable activity happened to be with OM, hence the affair. I have changed my priorities over the last six months and been much more attentive to her. I have tried to do all the stuff in Harley's books. None of this has done any good. She refuses to go to any counseling. She told me recently she wants a divorce.

Just was wondering if your wife returned on her own, or did you have to convince her to return?

Thanks for any input.

Is the affair ongoing? Actually I know the answer to that.

What have you done to break up the affair? Exposure? Plan A/B? What have you done since D-Day?

Hi TF

Man, I can relate to a lot of your situation. My career and Squid's sport meant we lived seperate lives for a while before d-day.

I destroyed their affair through exposure and threatening OM . Squid had nowhere to go and stay unless with friends or relatives. She decided to stay without much hope that we would ever recover.

I invested in the marrigebuilder methods, again in not much hope that Squid would respond. Over time she softened and then fell in love with me again.

I have much to write you but I must go to a work meeting now. I'll check in later and write more.

bigk,

I have no evidence the affair is ongoing. Sometimes I think there must still be contact. Steve Harley talked to her in February and said he doesn't think the affair was going on at that time.

I exposed to OMW and WW parents. OM and family moved two hours away.

I'd bet on contact from what you say. If you are doing the Harley EN stuff and it isn't working contact is the most likely reason. How long was her affair? It's possible she could still be in withdrawal but unlikely

Affair was PA for 4 to 5 months. EA +/- 2 years?

ok so yeah - withdrawal is unlikely at this point. I would suspect contact.

TP

Just to update, althought I MB'ed and did everything I couldtomake her affair not practical, I made sure the cage door on our marige was UNLOCKED.

I learned that WS and new FWS like to be able to clame coercion for them returning to their marrige. This gives them an excuse when angry to not fully participate in the recovery.

Its about a BS loving and investing but with ferociously policed boundaries.

You must be willing to divorce if a short set of boundaries ar eviolated over time.

My boundaries :

NC for ever
Total transpareny in activity
Protecting me from further hurt in marrige-friendly behaviours

When Squid violated those soon after coming home I reminder her lovingly that they were my boundaries for oking on our marrige, and thet she doesn;t have to respect my boundaries, she can leave any time she wants to. I would not stay in a relationship where my reasonable I were not respected.


See ?

It defused all kinds of "i'm only here because you made me !" sulks from Squid.

More later. Gotta take daughter to school. Busy life, huh ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bob:

How specifically did you police the boundaries? Were you ready to follow thru with divorce if she violated a boundary?

Thanks, Bob

follow through with other measures before divorce

Plan B ~~~> have you taken steps to get the Plan B ducks ligned up JUST IN CASE you need to go there??

geting ready for Plan B

Pep

TF

Boundaries are OURS not for other people. The are fundamental rules for how we will permit ourselves to be treated by other people. My boundaries were not SQUID'S boundaries.

When I exposed her affair to OMs GF and that pretty much destroyed any chance of her setting up home wih OM she was angry , indolent and embarrassed to be home with me. Foul natured and mean as a viper.

She was entitled and insited on attending sporting events overnight at weekends where she expected OM to attend.
I couldn;t stop her, but NC for ever was one of my boundaries.

I told her "Your attending these events is knowingly hurtful to me. I think perhaps you are messed up by events as I am, but please understand this : I will not be hurt deliberately by a person who is in a role of support for me. Please reconsider attending these events. If you want to stay married to me why would you deliberately hurt me ? If you do not want to treat me with respect, why stay here ? You may leave any time you wish. I will be sad but that is beter, perhaps, than you feeling entitled to hurt me, and me being hurt"

Squid hated that. " I'll do what I dam' well want !". I Turned the sit around " If it was me who had been screwing, say, Lynn over the street how would YOU feel about me spending weekends away with her ?" Dave Carder suggest this in 'Torn Asunder'. It worked GREAT for me.

So it was hard to make my boundaries NOT sound like threats but NEITHER sound like 'wishes'.

I made sure, calmly, that Squid knew my boundaries. I constantly reinforced what they were to Squid, and pointed out when they were being violated. And I reminded her that I would not tolerate such disrespect for very long.

Squid improved and started adhering to my boundaries like a sulky child. Now, she respects my boundaries completely.

And yes, I would have ended my marriage if Squid had persisted in deliberately violating my boundaries. I had the ultimate plan B two phonecalls away ( a job in another country).

Summary -

* be clear as to what your boundaries are. They are not wishes or demands on others. They are unbreakable rules for your treatment in your marriage.
* if you are not prepared to divorce over your boundaries being violated then do not set them as boundaries.
* Open the cage door. You should give your spouse two choices - to stay and treat you with respect or to leave and treat you any way she chooses.
* loving detachment is the only way. Expect your WS to be spiteful and mean. They can be no other way until their head and hearts starts to realign again after withdrawal.

I hope this helps.

Update to my situation:

My w moved out a few days ago into an apartment. She says she is not ready for a divorce but she has made some long term decisions about staying out like buying furniture for her place. She is going to tell our kids tonight. I have wanted to protect them from all this but there is nothing I can do anymore. She said she should have moved out last summer before the PA portion of the affair began.

So whats your plan TF ?

I believe my wife thinks that she would be happier with someone else. I still don't understand her point of view. We had a good marriage for 12 years when she met OM. I know this is true because she told other people at that time how thankful she was for me. We have always been very compatible, no big fights, no problems in our lives. We have healthy kids, our health is good, good job, good friends, family to support us. How can she be so dead set against me if there is no one else? I can't understand why she won't forgive me for neglecting her the past few years. I have forgiven her for neglecting me during the same time. We were both so busy with our work we lost track of each other. I have tried to plan A but there were three occasions in the last 6 months of AO's where I told her to get out and I did not want to see her again. Each time after, I asked her to forgive me. She said she would have left me even if I hadn't blown up. She has been planning this for some time. I know there is no excuse for my behavior. Her behavior indicated she was still talking to OM (secret cellphone, etc.). I don't know if this is true or not but if it is she is the best liar ever.

I believe I can continue plan A until July 31. I feel that to keep from having any more AO's and keep my self respect I need to plan B after that.

Since I don't know for sure if the A is continuing, is plan B justified simply because she is violating my boundaries such as moving out, secret cellphone, calling old boyfriend, etc.?

If my experience in my own situation and on these boards for two years are worth anything YOUR WIFE IS IN AN ACTIVE AFFAIR.

I can't think of a WS who left home and retained the 'pitbull chewing a wasp" attitude your W displays when there was no affair. If she admitted she was in an affair leaving would be her fault, but as she isn't leaving is YOUR fault in her mind.

I am in two minds over what I would do in your situation.

A GOOD plan A, however short should precede a plan B. Have you done a good plan A ?

Its hard to do this with the spouse moved out but its possible.

Then if WW doesn't come home execute a dark plan B.

The idea is to let her know what a great husband you can be, then to show her what life will be like without a SHRED of husbandly goodness in it.

SO, have you plan A'ed. I know about plan A. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bob:

I have done a good plan A except for the three times I went ballistic. I fear they may have ruined all the other attempts I have made to show her I want to meet her needs. There has not been any commitment to the marriage from her since D-Day so I can't say any progress has been made.

Deep down, I think she knows I can be a good husband. She has told me I am a good man several times. I just think she feels the other man would be better. Also, she feels the damage to our relationship has been so great it is almost irrepairable.

TF

Read up, friend: affairs are NOTHING TO DO with a comparative worth between spouse and OP. Read up on most situations here - OP is usually nothing to write home about. Its almost always about the WS dealing with their own issues in a crappy manner. Like emotional drug taking.

She fears being beholden to you. Most WS feel the same before deciding to stay or leave IME. Plan A is designed for us to convince our WS that we will do all we can to recover our marrige not to make then beholden to us. She wouldn;t want to come home to "kneel before you" proverbially for ever. Thats how she may feel now.

I'm not familiar with your story TF, did you expose your wife's affair ?

BP -

Thanks for all you've written.

Yes, affair has been exposed to OMW, her parents, my parents. I didn't feel I needed to expose further as it would make recovery more difficult.