Ideas regarding getting ready for Plan B

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...page=0&vc=1

Plan A is just too brutal. It's a cycle of feelings which for me starts with wanting to give up completely, to seeing a glimmer of hope and acting on that hope (as in writing a letter, maybe making a phone call, or even extending an invitation).

I tell you the last two times we were suppose to meet she flaked out on me. She acted all interested at first. Then something would come up. They seemed like legitimate reasons but it was always something else. I ended up feeling like an idiot. I can't tell if she's just toying with me. Seems like she's taking her feeling of acceptance and then going on her merry way. So then the feeling of hope is shattered, then comes the confusion, depression after that, followed by the giving up again, then maybe the next day I read a post or a book and I start hoping again... It's craziness. I swear I've gone through this cycle at least three times already in one month and it's never pretty. In the meantime WW (at least in my mind) is having a good 'ol time with her boyfriend. Oblivious to all consequences. Our marriage pushed aside as a "learning experience."

How can anyone respect themselves through Plan A? I'm not saying it shouldn't be done by some people, rather, why should I?

Is my WW really worth all this? Aren't we all supposed to be responsible for ourselves here, recongize when we've done wrong and apologize? Does her A and subsequent total lack of understanding and empathy about my situation give her any right to have the love of this decent man? I dislike this notion that good people get trampled on. I dislike it when people tell me nice guys finish last. I'm not a nice guy! Remember, I'm the jerk who created this environment for WW to cheat! She said I was, now she says I'm a nice guy and wants to be friends. I'm not here to be a nice guy. I'm standing on the front lines trying to pull her back from slipping into a lifelong mess. And there's nothing I can do about it because she won't simply step out of herself and realize she doesn't need a boyfriend, she doesn't need a night out for Martinis, she doesn't need extra-marital sex to spice things up, she needs someone who's willing to go to battle for her, she needs God, she needs someone with some morality not some OM who will use her up and throw her away. I keep praying for her...

(((((corinth13)))))

It is hard.

It isn't fair.

There are no "pat answers."

Adultery is that serious.

You don't "have to" anymore than God "has to."

Most of us KNOW exactly what you are feeling and the thoughts running through your head because they are normal for all who have been betrayed.

So what's left?

Only YOU. Only you can choose. Only you can forgive. Only you can say the marriage is over because you are the Faithful Spouse. Only you can decide to try, or not try.

Just know that however you decide, God is with you to help you through all the tough times that come with "adultery fallout."

And so will be many here on MB, to support and help as we can.


I remember too well the thoughts you are having.
But tomorrow will be our 31st wedding anniversary and the 4th since we began recovery. There CAN be recovery, but as with most things in life, there are no "guarantees" aside from God's forgiveness for those who have accepted Christ.

God bless.

corinth - you're treating her like a normal person.

She's not normal - she's been abducted by aliens and had her brains scrambled.

Re-read rule #1.

Good news is that YOU'RE normal.

You're trying to sort out her behavior using rationality. A common BS mistake. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Stop doing this. Stop trying to make sense of it. You can't. Hence your anxiety and confusion. Ever try reasoning with a drunk? Same thing.

Nope!! Your WW is NOT worth all of this. know what she deserves? Your WW deserves for you to kick her to the street, you take everything...and you move on with your life, never looking back in the rear view mirror.

So, let's get that straight right now. Okay?

But, the first question I want to ask you is this: is your WIFE worth this? Is your WIFE (notice I did NOT say WW) worth you doing everything you can to save her, to help her? did you mean the vows when you said for better or WORSE? And make no mistake...this is WORSE!!

Read the section at the bottom of this post. The one on the roles of husbands and wives. And then ask yourself...is she worth it?

WAT and FH are correct. You are trying to make sense out of nonsense. She is addicted to the OM. Read up on what Dr. Harley says about that. And ask yourself: if my wife had an addiction to cocaine, would I try to help her, to get her help...to help her recover? sure, you wouldnt like the addict. But wouldnt you want to know for sure that you can get yoru wife back from this? Dont you want to walk away knowing that you did everything you could?

Sure, Plan A is hard. That is why Dr. Harley says that it can only last so long (no more than about 6 months). But it is important. You said in a previous post that you hoped that she would remember your relationship and maybe come back. But right now, she really has nothing to go on. She doesnt have anything good to relate to. She cant remember that.

Plan A is about planting those seeds again. About exposing the affair to the light of day. About seeding doubt in the WW's mind that what she is doing is correct...that she really wants to leave you.

She does not have that right now. You going forward with Plan D (because if you go to Plan B without a good Plan A...you are essentially going to Plan D) will justify to her everything she is doing. You will be helping and enabling her in this.

But by Plan Aing, by exposing, by making her do all of the divorce work...the dirty work...you keep your hands clean...and maybe also get your wife back from the alien.

You will hear all sorts of things that dont make sense. You will see your wife sometimes, only to have her fall back into the fog again. Unfortunately, this is all a process! Just as the drug addict doesnt get clean overnight...neither will your wife.

You have a lot better odds that she will end up with you, then she will end up with the OM. But even if she does leave, by going thru this process, you will be better off emotionally and will have learned invaluable things about marriage, relationships, yourself...that you will be able to offer to someone else in the future.

If you just walk away...you learn nothing.

As FH said...you are justified in walking away. God has given you that option. And that option will remain, even if you try. So, why push the nuclear button before you know the score? Why be in a rush?

I know it hurts. Been there...done that! But soem things in life...especially those that mean something...require pain and sacrifice.

How much is your wife worth? I can tell you the answer to that. Wanna know it?

She is worth what you are willing to pay for her.

We will be here for whichever you decide. And you arent wrong no matter which way you go. It is your life. I jsut wanted you to understand some of the things that you dont quite see yet...but you will if you will try. And then make a decision knowing what your true options are.

I have been where you are. And didnt understand these principles too well...didnt want to hurt any longer. But even though my marriage may end...I am glad I have gone thru this process. I am glad, for so many reasons, that I did not quit.

Everyone knows what Mrs. Mortarman is worth. Everyone has seen what I have been willing to do, to sacrifice to get Mrs. Mortarman back from the WW. Mrs. Mortarman was an incredible woman.

And if things end, I can walk away knowing I did everything I could. And I have learned so many things during this. Things that I know that the old Mrs. Mortarman or a new one will benefit from.

Your call Corinth.

In His arms.

Aside from our M, I want to help my WW heal. I still want my M to work, but I'll admit something here, I don't want any phase of my old M. Very little of it is worth going back to. That is a major problem for us, and for her, because she has very little to hang on to and weigh against the A as someone else put it. The bright side is, she knows I am someone she can trust, despite everything I've managed to LB, she knows my integrity is intact. That's about the only thing working for me at this time.

We never found a groove in our M, we never reached a happy plateau where things were chugging along. We were both just very immature about expectations, roles and how marriage really was. We walked into it blindly and wandered around it blindly. I told her we didn't have to blame each other for it, just start fresh and work on it. But by that time she had shut down and found the OM. (Side note: If she had been shut down to me for a while, does that make the bond to the OM stronger?)

So not having anything nostaglic to look back on makes it very difficult to convince her it will all change. (My LB level was pretty high for a while.) I've been trying to "visualize" how it could be in the future and relaying that to the WW. Envisioning us being in love.

She must think I'm nuts. She never reacts to it, not that I expect her to. But I wonder if it's planting doubt, or if she is just mocking my idea of a good M with her. Am I just reaching? Am I just being idealistic in thinking it could change and that we could be a whole couple again?

I can envision it because I'm thinking forward, she's thinking backward. Should I make those promises in Plan A (thanks to some posts here I'm going to keep trying but I need some Plan A advice). Should I keep writing letters, poems, and talking on the phone? Should I offer friendship? And what about the OM, shouldn't I request it end everytime I talk to her?

The fact is I need to become a better person out of this, wiser for my own sake and the sake of my future W, whether it be this one or another.

This is actually a very healthy outlook.

The "old" marriage was flawed as evidenced by the affair. Why go back to that??

This is one of the major premises of Plan A > that the old marriage was diseased and the affair is merely a symptom of that disease. You, similar to most BSs, very likely contributed to the disease. Your Plan A introspection and improvements address your parts.

Yes, yes, and yes - in moderation. I suggest you not smother her.

It's typical for WSs who recognize a BS's improvements to say something like, "Why now? What took you so long? If you had only relized your faults sooner maybe it wouldn't have gotten to this point - too late."

To this, a BS should respond, "This has been a HUGE wake up call to me. I'm scared as he11. I want nothing more than to fix my flaws and rebuild a better marriage." - or words to that effect. This doesn't mean that the BS was the primary contributor to pre-affair marriage disease. If the WS wants to finger point at a mea culpa like this in their denial, oh well. Let her. She'll come around.

No.

This is not about OM, although the affair has to end before rebuilding can commence. You set your boundary early and firmly that you object to any further contact with OM. But don't nag about it. In her intoxication she'll spite nagging by "showing" you she can do anything she wants - perhaps even flaunting her contact with him.

JMHO

WAT

Well, I'm ready to declare this one over. Beware: this post is very negative on my part.

Talked with the WW tonight. She came to get more of her stuff and so I asked her about our situation and she pretty much came out with it for the first time very plainly. The answer is: she is completely over our M. No remorse. No cares about moving on.

She claims she loves me, but "can't explain" how she has no real romantic feelings for me anymore. Says she isn't sure if she ever had them. Says we'll both learn something from this M and D and go forward.

I asked her to stay and talk but she had to go out with some friends. She didn't see a need to talk since we have no chance for reconciliation. Says she doesn't want to give me false hope. I admit I shouldn't have asked...

She said we could hug before she left. I refused.

She said she still wanted to be friends. I refused. Told her we couldn't be friends after what's happened between us. She seemed perplexed. Then she started crying a little...

I asked her why she didn't think we could build our M back again. She said she just knew she would never truly be happy with me.

I'm telling you, when she says these things she is not in a fog, she doesn't seem confused, she actually seemed self-assured, confident, happy with herself, didn't skip a beat. Totally lucid. Just says she doesn't know if she ever really loved me romantically...

I know I'm not supposed to believe anything she says, but I tell ya, I believe it. This woman is dead set on walking out. She shows no interest in repentance for the A, just an interest in the friends she's meeting up with tonight.

Where did my W go? Forget W, where did the person with a soul go?

There is no chance for reconciliation. Says she knows we took vows and made a commitment but really just knows deep down it wouldn't work out between us...

Boy, I wish I could tell the future like that.

I don't think there's a plan to deal with this kind of thing. I set myself up for this, too. Feeling like a dope. So why do I care about marriage again? I'm talking in general, why do I care about it? It means nothing to too many people now. Even when they say "I do" they mean "I don't care."

Sorry about this post, this is venting big time. I have no need to be trampled on by someone who obviously doesn't need a husband when their OM is waiting at the bar!

I just got dumped by my own W... again. I don't think this M will last even if I did care. I don't want to care anymore. Is there a quick and easy why to suppress the caring?

Maybe the early posters were right and I should be filing for my first D. Problem is... I still care. Now I feel like the mentally ill one. Why can't I give up!

Corinth13,

I'm in the same position with my WH. He doesn't show any sign of repentance either and is set on D. I was sobbing uncontrollably like a baby at our MC appt on Tuesday. Although he continues to hurt me, I'm definitely not going to file D. Let the WS take care of that.

Make the WS take on that burden of filing. Until then, I've continued to pray fervently. I'm not giving up on my WH. Most of my friends think I'm crazy (including my therapists), but the M isn't over until the D is finalized.

God has a plan for all of this. I don't know what his plan is for my M but I'm willing to be patient. Yes, I think I'm going crazy myself but I'm convinced the "real" H is going to come back. Seriously, did H mislead me for 5.5 years? We've only been married for 2! It's insane how the A has changed WH's perspective on M.

It helps to keep yourself busy in the meantime. Sigh...each day is a challenge...Right now, there's no contact with us, which is Plan B...I'm just letting WH live entirely in sin...It's better than allowing him to be a cake eater.

"Well, I'm ready to declare this one over. Beware: this post is very negative on my part. "

corinth, we all, or at least all the Betrayed Spouses, understand this feeling VERY well. The enormity of the pain and the seemingly utter hopelessness in the face of one who is so caught up in the blinding folds of sin is REAL and VERY hard to deal with. The "Taker" inside all of us screams "enough!" The "Taker" screams "why should PAY for YOUR choice to sin?!" The "Taker" screams "outta here would end the pain!" And it will end some pain, but it will also add other pain.

Ever wonder what sort of thoughts went through the mind of the "fully human" Lord who knew He was being despised and rejected by those He loved?

The Garden of Gethsemene gives us a brief glimpse of his innner pain and turmoil over betrayal and rejection and what He was doing .... "this is love, not that we love, but that God first loved us" .... undeserving, unlovable, saying hateful and spiteful things, twisting reality to support their choice to continue sinning .... "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Yes corinth, we DO understand and we hurt with you and we try to come alongside of you to support you in this time of need.




She is not "required" to have "romantic feelings" for you. God does not command women to love their husbands, including Eros Love. But lack of feelings is NOT the issue, nor is it justification to commit adultery or to divorce. So she is right, you WILL both learn something from her outright decision to sin against God and against you.




Though painful to you, those were the right answers. "Marriage" is much more than friendship. That she thinks Adultery is okay indicates that she doesn't understand. It's the reverse side of the "coin" of adultery and "No Contact." Since there are no children involved, and I am not convinced that she is a Christian, Paul's advice to the unevenly yoked would seem appropriate, as would the Matthew 18:15-20 advice for dealing with willful and blatant sin in the lives of a professing believer. Bottom line, she can't have her cake and eat it too.




This IS what the blinding effect of sin is like. Totally self-centered and self-absorbed. Stand for Christ. It's all that you can in Agape Love right now.




To Satan. Believing the lie that he first told Eve, "God didn't REALLY mean what He said." "Thou shalt NOT commit adultery" does not allow for "allowable conditions" or for "feelings" to override God's crystal clear commandment.




Because you love your wife and you love a fellow professing Christian who is "lost" in sin. Just like Christ.


God bless and strengthen you during this difficult time.

Well Cory, many, many BSs here and here before can identify with your description of your wife.

It's all straight from the script. They can be very sure of themselves. Pretty amazing what the human mind can justify and rationalize.

I'll suggest to you what I usually suggest to similarly situated BSs like ready2wait - stay the MB course and go to Plan B at your first opportunity. Then let her take all the remaining steps to divorce. Do not resist, but do not assist. At every step repeat your mantra that divorce is premature because rebuilding the marriage deserves a shot.

You may end up divorced no matter what. But if that happens, you can exit guilt free. You did everything within your power to prevent it. In the formal divorce process make sure that you DO NOT agree that the divorce was voluntary and in your pleadings state you don't think it's necessary. Name OM as her accomplice.

In the end, all of the decisions will have been made by her, she will carry the burden going forward, and the record will state the truths.

JMHO

WAT

The WW is riding high on a few things right now, her professional success, her satisfaction with the OM, her self-image is up because she is a desired woman again, she is exercising her independence, and she seems to have found a group of people who do not judge her and moreover support her current lifestyle choices.

She's on the buzz of worldy success. In the world's eyes she is a success. Young, attractive, making strong decisions on behalf of herself... what's not to like about that?

Until she is convicted by the Holy Spirit my WW will continue down this path.

It's out of my hands now.

I am no longer a factor in her life.

This is hard because I made a vow to keep her and protect her. But at this time she has no need for morals and most likely sees me as a complete detriment to her pursuit of real happiness and passionate pursuits, excitement and fulfillment. I have restrained her for too long in her eyes. I am just this boring Christian who talks about healing and devotion and unconditional love, what do I know?

I am baffled by my WW's behavior. Her arrogance and lack of remorse regarding her actions are numbing. Nothing seems to bother people like this, blinded by their own selfishness and uncaring for people who love them. Why do I care? When I am only gaining pain and suffering for my WW?

It makes me wonder where is justice when wickedness seems to be rewarded. I was recently told to look at Psalms 73:3-28. The author addresses this:

3 For I envied the arrogant
when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
4 They have no struggles;
their bodies are healthy and strong. [a]
5 They are free from the burdens common to man;
they are not plagued by human ills.
6 Therefore pride is their necklace;
they clothe themselves with violence.

12 This is what the wicked are like—
always carefree, they increase in wealth.
13 Surely in vain have I kept my heart pure;
in vain have I washed my hands in innocence.
14 All day long I have been plagued;
I have been punished every morning.

16 When I tried to understand all this,
it was oppressive to me
17 till I entered the sanctuary of God;
then I understood their final destiny.

18 Surely you place them on slippery ground;
you cast them down to ruin.
19 How suddenly are they destroyed,
completely swept away by terrors!

23 Yet I am always with you;
you hold me by my right hand.
24 You guide me with your counsel,
and afterward you will take me into glory.

27 Those who are far from you will perish;
you destroy all who are unfaithful to you.
28 But as for me, it is good to be near God.
I have made the Sovereign LORD my refuge;
I will tell of all your deeds.

I need to remember this... that it is better to suffer for good, then to walk confidently in deception.

So now it's been four days since we've spoken. I'm not sure if I should make any more attempts to work with her or if I should just stay silent and let her figure things out on her own.

At this point I believe only God's intervention can save this M. I think I'm just going to let her experience what she wants to experience and if she files for D, let her file.

If she doesn't stop it from finalizing, let it finalize.

She has already said she has no hope for reconciliation. I am baffled by that statement. To me it just rings of immaturity. We all need reconciliation and the more the better. I can't imagine it any other way.

It's like taking a gunshot wound and then refusing medical attention because you don't like the way the doctor treats gunshot wounds, then using a local anasthetic instead to mask the pain in an attempt to forget the wound was ever there.

It just shows me she doesn't understand what marriage means. It has less to do with me at this point since I want to change and work and fix problems and it has everything to do with her need to indulge. It seems like she also has some serious issues with intimacy and therefore commitment. I'm willing to help, but she must be willing to try.

I hope somehow or someday she recognizes the importance of devotion. Only God knows when and if that will happen.

So I trust in Him daily and let Him take me where I need to be. The WW is out of my hands now and in reality I cannot make her happy. She needs God to do that.

Thanks to all who have posted. FH, WAT, Mortar, and all others, your advice is appreciated. I'll post more as things develop, but it looks like I'm going into the silent/waiting period for a while. Patience, patience, patience...

Corinth,

Just a question: What have YOU learned from all of this?

You seem to think you are accountable for your W's choices, decisions, delusions and lack of faith. Yet, you KNOW it is not in your hands. You KNOW life is about learning, so out all of this mess what have YOU learned?

How will you lead your life better, more happily, more productively in the future?

Stop focusing on her, she has NOT asked for your help. She is delusional and may remains so for a long time who is to know? Not me, not you, surely not her.

Move on to plan B, and if she files there is little you can do for that but...LEARN. You have an OPPORTUNITY here, not what you wanted or wished, not one you are enjoying, but an opportunity just the same to learn, grow, and have a better life. Make the most of it.

You are and will survive this and you will have less to fear because of going through this. What would you do with your life if you did not fear many things? Would it be good or bad?

Time to focus on you, and your future my man.

God Bless,

JL

Ditto what JL said.

And I would be interested in hearign the answer to his question.

In His arms.

JL, Mortarman, all others,

I hope I've learned what love means. Love is an action, it is a verb. It means we sacrifice our own comfort to help the person we love. It means I decide to do what is in their best interest as opposed to mine even when I cannot see how it may help me in the future.

My WW still tells me she loves me. But she can't love me when she is wayward because she is doing exactly the opposite of love. She is serving herself before me. She is exercising the opposite of her statement. To her, love means what she gains from being with me.

She still values some parts of our relationship, but wants to go out and lay claim to the other parts she thinks she's missing. She is doing for herself (in her own words) "what is best for me [her]."

Love is not an emotion. Love is an action. It is a choice. Just as our M vows were a choice to love.

Love is selfless. Pride is selfish.

That is first. And although I may have heard it before, or thought I understood it before, I never truly knew what love meant until I went through this. It means realizing how my actions affect other people, especially the people I claim to "love."

Now when I see my WW tell me she "loves me" I can understand exactly what love is not. So I have tried to show her instead what love is, knowing she will reject me for it, insult me for it, tell me things about our relationship that are probably false, and then walk away to another man.

So only through these last few weeks have I also understood what Christ's love is like toward mankind and, in turn, me. When I pray and tell Jesus I love Him, but then turn around and willingly commit sin, how does He react?

He continues to love me. The problem is, I am not Christ, and when my WW tells me there was never anything between us, I tend to believe her, because I focus on flaws too much and I have a lot of them and I know it! So then I blame myself for, not all of the circumstances, but some of them.

What I need to learn from my end of this broken M is how I treat other people and especially my future W.

I must understand that I cannot control anyone. Understand it, then practice it. Not enough to just know in theory. I cannot make a person believe how I believe or manipulate them into understanding what I want them to understand. I must do as God does, let them live freely and simply use what influence I have to SHOW them why it may be a better way to live. Also knowing that I don't have all the answers, point them also to God, then LEARN with them.

Number 1 complaint from WW, I tried to mold her. I wanted to control her. I was hard and harsh on her ideas. Only now do I realize I was even doing this. I just thought being the H, I needed to show some assertiveness and make a stand. Instead of being a husband, I was being a tyrant. That is from my end, and she quickly shut down. I had no idea it was even happening until she had already closed the door. I keep kicking myself for this.

I am only human so I must learn to forgive myself. For everything. I must learn to forgive and then love myself. When I can effectively do that, I will then be able to love my future W better. Now this is in practice, because it takes time to change behaviors. But hopefully I can do it because I now understand what love is.

I edited this post because it was too long, and I felt like it was asking for too much.

Truth is today I feel like I've learned nothing, maybe because I have no one to practice it on.

Pretty down today.

Thanks to all who have posted on this thread. I've been checking it periodically for insight and support when need be.

It's been six weeks since D-day and she has all her stuff out now. Not much contact in the last two weeks at all. I've been silent besides a couple of emails, of course there is no response. I invited her to church in the last one. Soon, I'll end those, too.

I wake up in the morning and realize this is really happening. Hard to believe it. I am baffled by her willingness to throw it all away.

But I'll keep praying and leaving the door open until it's time to let it go. I'm not sure when that will be but I just ask God to make it apparent when the time comes. In the long run I know I'll be better off for doing this. She also needs to know not everyone cuts and runs when it gets tough.

Galatians 6:8
"The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."

Hi, Corinth,

I just found your post, and I can see you are well into this thing, and getting expert advice, so you're in good hands! (Including the Lord's)

I just wanted to add a few points from someone else who was where you are now. When my H and I split up (he did the walking), we had both been away from the Lord. That didn't help our M in any way - and in fact, probably had a lot to do with why our M was so off-track.

Well, I won't go into all the gory details, but suffice it to say my H said ALL the same things your WW is saying now. In fact, after he left (and I had NO CONTACT with him for over a year! When he left, he was GONE), I had nothing to turn to for support except this forum, and going back to the Lord - which I'm ashamed to have to say, I should have done before it got us to that point! Well, we didn't, and obviously God had to use that experience to get us BOTH back.

As you can read from the profile on the bottom of my post, God brought us both back together again (by very extraordinary means, I might add!), and my H is now very sold out for the Lord. Well, so am I, but I came back to the Lord through this situation before he did, and he began coming back to the Lord afer the very tragic events God used to get his attention!

My main point to you is this: My H was VERY certain he was going to do what he was going to do. I, at one time, TOLD HIM "God does not want us to divorce!" His exact words were: "I DON'T CARE! I'm GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY."

And he did. And about a year later, God got his attention, and turned everything around so that all he could do was focus on God to get back up on his feet and find truth...which he had walked away from, and pretended his disobedience was his new truth.

Hope this helps! Prayers to you to be strong and lean more on HIM.

God Bless,

Aloha Lupolady!!

Howzit?

Send an e-mail to let me know how u r doing.

Aloha,
L.