I’ve posted before, but not on general questions, so I thought I’d bring my story here to get some more responses. The ones I’ve had have been so appreciated and helpful, but I feel I’m stuck…paralysed….in this absolute mess and I don’t know if I’m Arthur or mather.

It’s a long story, but I’ll try and cut it short.

H and I met in his country while I was on a working holiday. We fell in love, he told me he wanted to marry me within a month…we were very full on right from the start. My working holiday visa ran out after 12 months together and I returned to my home country. We then spent 2 years having a long distant relationship. He proposed in that time and we married 4 years ago. I moved to his home country.

We decided to immigrate to my country (it was always the plan) so he sent me and our DD (22 months old) home ahead of him for my brothers wedding. He said he couldn’t come with us as he promised his boss he would work up til Christmas (2005) but would fly out early 2006. I was upset, but had learned not to question him. I knew he would have pulled out the ‘you’re so selfish’ card if I’d said ‘why would you choose to be away from me and our baby for 3 months because you feel duty toward your boss?’…so I just accepted it. Actually, I lie…it did come up in a fight and I said something about him always putting others before his own family and he said ‘And there it is….just as I was expecting’. Anyway, he arrived out here in January this year. Was here for 2 days when I found out about his A. I was absolutely devastated, but not surprised when he told me who it was with…a work colleague who I’d been feeling ‘funny’ about for a few months. By then his A had been an EA for 12 months and a PA for 6. That very night he got on a plane and went back home to his ‘mummy & daddy’. Before he chose to leave, my father made it very clear to him….’you have a wife and child. You don’t get on a plane and go home to mummy and daddy. You stay here and you work out your marriage’. So my H asked me what I wanted him to do. I already knew he wanted to go home so I told him to just go. He did. Of course now he can blame me for making him go home. He said ‘I would have stayed if she wanted me to, but I did what I felt was wanted of me’. This is a typical cop out from my H. It’s always been the same with him. As long as he can say he did what I wanted him to do, he can blame me for the consequences. Maybe it was my fault. Maybe I should have said ‘don’t go’, but only a matter of hours before I’d had my whole world shattered. I was in no place to make such decisions, but it’s what he’s always done.

So, he stayed in his country for 4 months, living with his parents and lying to everyone about still seeing her. His A has been exposed to sooo many people. He is a prominent pastor’s son…people within our church know from the UK to Australia to America about his affair now. But it doesn’t seem to have made a difference to him. Anyway, he decided to move back out here and has been here probably about 6 weeks now. Since finding out about his A, he has given me the usual WS justification story…he doesn’t love me etc. He has even gone so far as to say that if I had given him a reason to break our relationship off before we were married that he would have. He married me because he didn’t want to hurt me. He even said that he deeply suppressed fears about our marriage when we decided to try for a baby and that he questioned whether we should be brining a child into the world when he had so many doubts about us. All this has come as a terrible shock to me. I can definitely see that he changed when our baby was born…but I thought he was still in love with me before she was born.

Because of our move and the fact I’m living with my parents….I’ve not been able to implement a plan A. We moved straight into Plan B and it has been that way now since the beginning of this year. He knows what life is like without me and our baby and he would still choose it.

However, the big point of all this….he offered me ‘reconciliaton’ back in January. When I asked why he was offering me it if he didn’t love me he said it was because he HAS to (we are both born again Christians). He said everyone tells him he has no choice. But he wished he did have a choice so he could choose to be with her. I have not been able to say yes or no.

My dilemma is this….is our sitation the same as most situations? Is he just fogbound, is he just re-writing history….or sadly, is he telling the truth. Was he just too young to marry me (he was 21, I was 25). Did he just make a huge mistake, and his A is the result of that? I have read so many stories here (I practically live on this website…reading reading reading)…stories with hope etc. But is my situation different? Was what he had really an exit affair? Like I said, I haven’t been able to make a deicisoin about reconciliation. How can I? He’s not been in my life for 8 months now. Since he left here to return home he treated me like I didn’t even exist. I think the only form of personal contact I got from him was a late night birthday email when he remembered it was my birthday. Other than that, he would ring maybe once very 2 weeks to ‘talk’ to his baby. Never once asked me how I was. In honesty, I told him from the night he left that it was over. But when he started talking about reconciliation I said ‘she would have to be out of your life completely, before I could ever again think about our marriage’. Was this wrong of me? I felt I laid it out quite clear for him. He ignored it and continued his A with her.

Dear me, did I say this was going to be a short story….I am sooo sorry for this rambling. I just don’t know how to make it any shorter! The short of the situation today is this…he wants a FINAL decision from me about our marriage. So I asked what he was hoping I would say…yes or no. He said ‘I’m not telling you’. I said ‘well, you just did, didn’t you?’ he said ‘I’ve told you this is purely a head decision. The answer can be got from that’. He then said he wanted to get on with his life with the 'person he loves'. He intends to bring her to my country. Ouch.

Would I be crazy to say yes? I love this man, but I feel I would be walking into years of he!! and misery by taking a man back who has absolutely no desire to be with me and who has had long enough to know what life without his family is like.

I'm not sure he has absolutely no desire to be with you. Are his religious beliefs so strong that he would abandon someone he is in love with for someone he says he does not love?

I would say, give it a try. If you are together you have a good chance of getting him to fall back in love with you by meeting his emotional needs over time. It will be hard work with lots of disappointments, but it may be worth it in the end. It means he must have no further contact with the other woman.

When I asked why he was offering me it if he didn’t love me he said it was because he HAS to (we are both born again Christians).

well that's NOT true...now is it...

in fact...on grounds of adultery....
you have access to divorce proceedings...

he is not bound by his Christianity to stay married to YOU>...

He IS bound by his so called Christianity...to confess his sins...seek forgiveness...and sin no more in the realm of adultery....

you know your husband...

what is he REALLY saying..
is this his way of trying to get back with you because he wants to and knows his affair is doomed and wrong and an abonimation to God?

what do you think he really means...

cause what he is saying now is false...

ARK^^

Thank you for your replies.

I see the same impasse in him that I have seen before we were married, and certainly after we were married. I feel he wants the decision made for him.

I'm truly confused in all honesty.

I've said to him 'how would I know you wouldn't do this to me again?' He said 'if you can't be the wife you should be and give me no reason to turn away from you again, then you confirm all my suspicions'. He has told me he is not attracted to me the way he use to be. He told me he couldn't contrive conversation with me that 'simply wasn't in him'. He told me he wasn't going to give up the person he loves (and wants to marry) without getting something from me. He told me I should be trying to win him back just as much as the other way around.

But still the same impasse....I always thought he was just lazy in every way...particularly emotionally. I accepted that. I thought it was just him. Now I question whether it really was that he just never truly loved me. If that came out to be the answer, how could I work on our marriage?

Members of his own family have said to me 'he just wants to make it look like he tried...so he can always say you wouldn't give him another chance'.

It all boils down to finding out what you want. Do you want him back or are you just lonely? Do you want him back because you truly love him or because it would help you recover your damaged self-esteem? If he came back do you think he would be likely to do the same thing again?

These are tough questions that only you can answer. If he came back you could probably recapture his love by meeting all his emotional needs and going through the MB principles to rebuild your relationship. But it is not an easy path. You might have to deal with rejection for a long time.

You are young. What is easier? Trying to fix all the problems with this man or starting fresh and hoping your next choice is a better match?

Hi Lucy,

(((((((((((((((((((((lucy))))))))))))))))))

Honestly, if there were no child.....I'd tell you to let this immature and selfish man be on his way. Unfortunately, I think you owe it to your baby to at least give her a chance to have her parents together.

He's asking you if he can come back....but he's being as distasteful as possible so that you'll say "no" and he can blame it on you. If it were me.....I'd call his bluff and say "yes". Chances are....he still won't come chere....and if he does he may not stay long again....but on the outside chance that he's really willing to do this....you've got to stop "reacting" and have a plan for how you're going to rebuild your marriage after this travesty from a calm and grounded place. He deserves every tongue lashing and name calling you can think of.....but that won't help you make the marriage attractive. Line up a good Christian counselor and help him to get back to God and give him enough separation time from the OW for him to know his own heart. Yes.....I believe a huge portion of the things he says are fogspeak, but they're are so hurtful that my heart goes out to you. I also believe that the adversity of his A....in an environment where it is so against his church....may add to the excitement of it. If he's in your country.....contact with the OW will naturally be difficult and it may be the window he needs to make a real attempt at saving the marriage.

Hiker,

I became a self-harmer in our marriage. I know that it is not his fault that I did that...it was MY choice after all and I cannot blame him for my choices, but all I can say is that on the occassions I did it, it was like he was driving me to a level of insanity...intense hate for myself at the things he would say. So, in answer to your question what is easier? Walking away. Starting a new fresh life. A hope of meeting someone that wouldn't do what my H has done. I gave up everything for him. I moved to a foreign country, leaving my family, my friends...the sun!! I was a doormat throughout our marriage and I married him feeling deep down that I loved him and was willing to sacrifice more for him than he was for me.

But I have a child.... as starfish says...shouldn't I be putting her needs above my own? But what would I truly be offering her? Starfish, I have considered calling his bluff and saying yes! But yes to what? I can't have him move in with my parents...and in all honesty, the thought of living with him again terrifies me. He is not truly remorseful for what he has done. It's like me saying 'I know you don't want to be here, but come along anyway!' And he's still in contact with her. He broke it off once with her when I gave him an ultimatum. But he was in contact with her within days because he 'owed her money'. So I said 'that's it'. And he didn't come back with anything. He's just looking for permission to bring her out here.

Should I tell him to do what he wants and see what happens in the future? In other words...we either find love again when he gets over all this and realises, through experience, what he had and lost. I feel he is the type that has to learn things the hard way.

Then.....tell him not to ask you, but to ask God what to do. Let go of the outcome and find some peace for yourself. He will either decide to do the right thing....or he won't.

((((((((((((((((lucy))))))))))))))))))

I am putting my son first in my efforts to deal with my wife, so I can't recommend that you walk away from your husband because I don't know enough about your situation. Is he a good father? That should be part of your decision. If not, maybe someone else could be a better father to your child.

As I said, all very tough decisions. Am impartial counselor could help you a lot.

lucyloo...

you can not do the marriagebuilders plan UNTIL you have the self harm issue addressed and in an accountability group...

the great news about marriage builders program ...which YOU could not take on WITHOUT direct counsel from Dr. Harley...

is that is has an begin date and an end date....

BUT

it is not one without great sacrifice....though the sacrifice is short lived in relative time to divorcing for life...

you must seek counseling for yourself before you begin marital recovery..the risk is too great for you...and your baby deserves a mom and dad as healthy as they can be..

whether or not they are married...

there are tons of people that understand the emotional release of self harm.....
that feelings it releases...

seek help and support on this issue...

ARK

Thank you guys, I really think I need some counselling now. I thought he was a good enough father, but other people tell me they thought he was not completely emotionally attached to her. I'm not sure. He did chose to be away from her for almost 3 months, and then when the affair came to light, he didn't have any problem in getting on a plane and moving back to England that night. In our time apart before he arrived here, he didn't once ask me how she was. Just called once every 2 to 3 weeks to hear her say some new words.

I find peace when I think about ending our marriage. I'm in turmoil when I think about working at it. But I will be in more turmoil if I was to make the wrong decision. I do feel too paralysed to make a decision right now, and I like your suggestion starfish about asking him not to ask right now. I keep saying to God 'please just don't give up on me'..get me to where you want me to be...because I don't know where that is.

My pastor told his neice (my best friend) that he hopes I forget about him and move on and find a decent guy. (And he knows my husband's family even though they live in different countries!) I still feel in such shock. My H and I were each other's 'only's'. We waited for marriage...I thought we were on the same path morally...our church even wanted to make him a preacher. Everyone is in such shock because we appeared the perfect family. You never know what goes on behind closed doors I guess.

I guess when it comes down to it, if there was true remorse, and I saw some action from him, I would give it another go...but he hasn't given an inch. He just doesn't seem to care.

thanks for your help <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ark,

sorry, I didn't get your reply.

I haven't self-harmed in over 3 years. When we started talking about trying for a baby I knew it was something I could never do again. And I haven't! Even through all this, I haven't had one desire to. Truly recovered thank goodness!

Well, you don't seem ready for divorce, because you are still trying to decide. I suggest you get counseling, and continue reading and posting here.

If he has an OW, it is hard to tell what is the truth, and what is rewriting the marriage history.

But one thing is guaranteed - if you do the program here, you will be a much healthier, happier person, and when it comes time to decide, you will have no doubts.

can i have some advice on a very recent update.

My H has been out of our daughters life for 6 months and back in it for about 6 weeks. We started the process off very sensitvely and slowly...him coming over 2-3 times a week for an hour or so. Then we moved to half day access where he would take her away from morning to lunch.

Tomorrow we are starting full day access which involves a sleep in his flat (she sleeps for 3 hours at lunchtime). The problem is he has just said he doens't want me to drop her off. He doens't want me to come to his flat. He won't give me the address. He said I can come to the area, but not any further.

Why would he say that? Don't I have the right as a mother of a 22 month old baby to know where my daughter is being kept? Am I wrong here?

You are ABSOLUTELY not wrong. No address = no baby.

You are not in Plan B if there has been no letter and you're speaking with him.

What have you read about Plan A & B on this site?

My boy's dad tried to pull that one. I told him I would never even consider sending by boys anywhere that I didn't know the address.

Sounds to me like he plans on bringing OW there and doesn't want any problems from you.

I got the address, but only after I told him that in that case she would not be sleeping at his flat and he could come and have a half day with her instead. He told me he didn't want me to know where he was living because he was scared of my brother and father. They've never threatened him in any way, so his fears are totally unfounded. They would NEVER hurt him. I turned up and the flat was FULL of someone elses belongings. He maintains he's living on his own. He's been there for 6 weeks now and there are personal things lying around of someone elses EVERYWHERE. Photo's still up on the fridge and walls, a guitar in the corner, a water feature on the coffee table. He says they just haven't finished moving out yet. Strange. Look, I know it's none of my business I guess, but when my daughter is staying there I want to know if someone else is too. I don't believe its the girlfriend. I believe she's till in his home country, but a call to her mobile (which I have a number for) will quickly tell me that anyway.

MDC i've read alot about Plan A and B, but because we are in such a difficult situation, I've not really known how to handle it. During our 4 month separation while he was back in his country he seemed angry when I said 'no' to his offer of reconciliation (which, just to clarify, was done because he said he HAD to and didn't have a choice and that it was all up to me). So, a few weeks before he arrived out here I gave him an ultimatum. Her or me. Send her a letter and tell her it's over because your priority is to save your marriage. I said if he can keep that committment to me we'll talk about reconciliation. So, a week later I called him and asked if there had been any contact. He said yes, he needed her bank details because he owes her money. I then told him that if he had been serious about reconiliation, and getting her out of his life, he would not have gone directly to her and would have obtained those details through someone else. I said he was now free to do what he wanted to do and that I was getting on with my life. I told him he didn't do what was necessary to remove her from his life and he very well knew it. What I didn't tell him was that I knew his msn messenger password (the only thing I had seeing as he changed his email password...strange that huh?'. So I logged on and saw that she was still a contact. Is it just me or would part of the process of removing OW from life include EVERY form of possible contact? Anyway, so he didn't bother answering me (but then, I did tell him not to come back at me with rationalizations etc).

Anyway, so, Plan A & B... in all honesty, I just don't know where to go from here. Last week he told me he wanted a final answer from me. I said 'are you hoping I'll say yes or no'. He said 'I won't answer that'. I said PLEASE stop playing these horrendous games with me. You are either hoping I'll say yes because in some way it's what you want or you're hoping I'll say no so you can get on with your life with her and tell everyone you offered to work on your marriage but your wife wouldn't take you back. Which is it? He said 'you know this is purely a head decision from me, so that should make the answer fairly obvious'.

What would any of you suggest I do? Thanks so much for your help.

Now I've just received an email from my MIL accusing me of using our daughter as a weapon against H and trying to put fears into our daughter about her Dad.

It is such BS. I just wanted to know my daughter was safe. Wouldn't your alarm bells go off if your H refused to give you his address?

Should I respond?

MIL,

I am surprised and shocked that you would want your granddaughter to be around strange people. In this world filled with pedophiles and child abusers, you trust your precious granddaughter t/b around people with no morals? Who disrespect the sanctity of marriage and family?

I am very disappointed you feel that way. Now I know.

Sincerely,
BS

U see LL, you don't have to let the WS or his enabling MIL get the better of you. Instead, give them back their guilty. I call it 'reverse babble'. Takes a bit of practice but it generally works.

take care,
L.