Hello everyone,


I have been reading the MB site and forums for about 1,5 weeks now and decided it's time to start a thread for myself. This is going to be long, so skip to the end for a summary if you want. I just have to be verbose to get it out of my system, so I'll apologize for my long post in advance.

I found out 1.5 weeks ago my wife has been having an A with someone she met at a temporary job. She became friends with him and they started doing lots of things together. I didn't really mind because I'm not the type to go out and do things, and I was happily enjoying my own (in house) recreational activities. The fact that he was single didn't raise any red flags at that time.

That weekend they were going to a concert of a band I don't like very much and she insisted on sleeping at his place "because it's no fun to come home at 3:00am, besides, I would wake you up.".
I didn't like this at all and objected quite strongly, but she chose to ignore me. It got me very suspicious as to why she would make such a big deal of her staying with him if I obviously didn't feel comfortable about it, so I checked out her computer. I found lots of "interesting" E-mails. I also found concept letters to me telling me she wanted a D, and a concept letter to the OP outlining a detailed plan to mislead his friends and family about their activities together and work towards a D from me. It also contained stuff about getting together and "naturally" falling in love for the outside world to see post-D). This concept letter seems to have been written after the OP had an argument with his parents about him being friends with a married woman.
Needless to say, I didn't sleep well that night.

Next day I confronted her and she admitted the A very calmly. She also said the PA was over now (some recent E-mails did lead me to believe that, they both seemed to struggle with feelings of "wrongness"). She told me she hasn't loved me for quite a while now, but that she also didn't love the OP and that she was very confused and feeling lost. Given the fact that the letter containing their "plan" was only 2 weeks old I didn't quite believe her. Of course I was stupid and let her know how I found out about the A (didn't know about MB yet).

She wanted a D but she couldn't do it right away because she is not capable of supporting herself at the moment. We are not rich so having an extra apartment to rent for her to live in is also a rather big financial burden. She also didn't want to move in with OP (presumably because they wanted to make sure the outside world thought their A was started "normally" between two single people). So, she wants to stay with me for now until she has paid of some of her debts and has a steady income.

I decided to search the web a bit on affairs and came across MB. I was immediately drawn into it because all the observations from Dr. Harley seemed to be completely hitting the nail on the head. I could recognize all my behaviour in his articles about LBs and ENs. I was crushed by the realization of how I had treated my wife/girlfriend all this time.

I have been neglecting her ENs for at least 2 years now. She has given me a lot of signals that things were not going well, but I decided to ignore them.

I have also been LB-ing like ******, so I'm actually surprised she stayed with me for so long. Looking back I realize I have been behaving like a 2 year old for a long time. Perhaps it was because I got away with it every time, she remained caring and loving to me even though I treated her like dirt. I don't know, I just feel really bad about it now and all this has caused me to "wake up" and for the first time REALLY realize this.

I now have this strong urge to better myself and fight for our M. We did have a wonderful R to start with, I helped her deal with problems from her past, gave her SF for the first time (she's had many short and shallow relationships before me), did great things together (traveling) and we were very much in love.

Somehow it all slipped after that. I got a busy job, she lost hers, forced to stay at home because she didn't have any friends where we live. I now know she really hates being home alone all day (of course she told me, but I couldn't really do anything about it other than suggesting she get some friends, and didn't realize just how much she hated it) and she really needs RC and "do fun stuff". Usually I then met some ENs and stopped LBing for a while and she felt happier again and thought things were going the right way. After this things would slip again and this basically has been going on for years now.

With all this I realize that I am for a very large part to blame for the state our R is in. I also realized that I didn't want to give it up just like that.

After reading MB I realized she has emotionally withdrawn from me, which explains her cool reactions and the complete lack of interest in our R. She just wants to get it over with. I managed to talk her into postponing any decisions about D or even separating until she can support herself. I couldn't convince her to NC because he is her only "true" friend and she doesn't want to lose him as a friend.

I asked her to check out the MB website but she isn't really interested in saving our M.

So, to summarize:
+ I realize that I need to change A LOT (hence doing Plan A) because the state our R is in is very much to blame on me. I've also wondered if I'm not just afraid of being alone but decided that's not it. I do love her and I know we can be great together.
+ I realize I have the best chance of recovering our M if my WW is still living with me, since she needs to see that I'm working on myself and the change is not just temporary.
This means I need try and postpone any drastic steps until this is clearer.
+ I've found MB early, this has kept from LB-ing any further and I read a lot of very supportive things on these forums.
+ I've ordered SAA which should arrive later this week.

- I realize that the chances that this will work are very slim (no children, she does love our house though).
- It's very hard for me to keep up because she's still seeing the OP and I can't really negotiate about NC with her because she is not interested in saving our M. She just thinks I will never change and quite frankly I can't blame her.

So, that's my story so far. I have some questions about exposure but I will leave that for another day.

LB - help is on the way. Hang in there.

I don't have a lot of time right now...

Likely you were not as bad in the M as you think you were. It's good that you're recognizing where you could have been better. BSs - espcially men - tend to amplify their bad pre-A behavior as a way to control and make sense of the situation.

You were not responsible for the affair. Do you believe this? REALLY believe it? Or just "know" it.

Your WW is in the fog. Do you know about fog? "True friend", "haven't loved you for a while","very confused, feeling lost" these are all standard, fog-bound WS statements. Right out of the textbook. Put NO, zero meaning behind these words as they carry absolutely no weight other than to tell you that your W is deep into an affair fantasy and grasping at straws to justify it.

You will need to expose to end the fantasy. Might be particularly effective for you since WW and OM are concerned about starting their lives out together with a lie. Expose that lie and you'll cause a great deal of turmoil in the relationship.

Look for a poster by the name of "Longhorn". He's got a quickstart guide for new BSs as well as a primer on exposure.

You can save your marriage. Lots of posts will follow mine with more advice.

Good luck.

You can start meeting her needs now, but until the A ends, most of it won't get through to her.

Exposure is a tool to help end the A - and you should be thinking about doing it SOON. Like this week.

AFTER the A ends, you have a much better chance to get her to fall in love with you again.

Use all your tools, not just some of them. Once your copy of "Surving the Affair" cones you can develop a plan for ending the A.

I think you already know this won't be easy. May you have the strength and stamina to succeed.

SS

Likely you were not as bad in the M as you think you were. It's good that you're recognizing where you could have been better. BSs - espcially men - tend to amplify their bad pre-A behavior as a way to control and make sense of the situation.

Amen to this! LB, I LIVED this guilt, pat yourself on the back for recognizing it, some people never get this and continue to focus blame on others... OR focus FAR too much blame on themselves. Your WS WILL reinforce this whenever possible...don't believe it, they need to do this to rationalize their behavior, get it?!! VERY important that you do.

Find your personal power, find out the things that you can do, you can change yourself, you can't change her. Changing yourself will infuence how she treats you. Try not to be affected by her reactions right now, you are your own BEST resource, be your best friend, you deserve you! Don't expect ANYTHING from her right now and you won't hurt yourself so much.

Know that you are taking a tough road, this will take time and unbelievable patience.

Do you love her? Then you know what you need to do. You can feel good EVERY day knowing that you are doing what is in line with your beliefs...

...right now she has her OWN beliefs...focus on your own. Dig inside, who are you? What do you like about you? There's lots to like, bring it to the surface, feel your pride, develop from there...

You are NOT alone.

...Now OWN it. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A! She's still with you. You still "have" her, you have a chance, and you must do the work.

It was HER choice to have the affair, NOT yours. She could have made a different choice, she could have brought these issues to YOU, rather than going to someone else for comfort...her choices, NOT yours (I repeat).

Your self-blame ends where her bad choices begin, OK? Keep your blame on your side of the tracks...

Yes find Longhorn, and find WorthaTry, both have useful links in their sig lines... read everything you can about Plan A... find LovingAnyway, read her posts, she has the most incredible training for helping you deal with communication, loving yourself, and realistically dealing with your feelings.

Good luck, mate, we are on the same journey.

CJ

I'm just wondering who to expose to. She told her sister herself (probably some nicely twisted version of it). Should I follow up and tell her my side of the story?

I'm not going to expose to her father because they are not close at all and he divorced himself (and is now living with another woman), so I don't think I can rely on him at all. My W told them a bit of our marital problems. They didn't even send us a card on our first wedding anniversary "because things weren't going well, so a congratulation wasn't in order". His new GF is very anti-marriage so I expect zero support from them.

I am inclined to expose to OMs parents. I know some of you think this shouldn't be done with an unmarried OP, but from the concept letter I found it seems his parents are not comfortable with their son being friends with a married woman at all. OM has a conservative religious background and I feel they can probably exert quite some pressure on him to end it.

I don't know the exact address of his parents though, I checked out the phone book and there are about 14 people with the same last name. I know OMs brother recently moved out to live on his own, I know his name, so I was thinking of calling pretending to be looking for his brother. Does this sound like a good idea?

I also tracked down some of OPs friends through a web guest book they are using. Should I expose there? I'm afraid I will look like a crazy person if I do this. I tracked down some phone numbers of these friends, so I could also call some of them but I'm not sure if that's a good idea (I don't know how close they are).

Yikes, I just reread my post, lots of conflicting sentences...I hope you got the jist of it: (I wrote too fast!)

- her choice to have an affair rather than work on the marriage is NOT your fault, and NO ONE deserves this!

- you must focus on yourself to make yourself a spouse that she would like to have

- there is no sense over-blaming yourself for how you contributed to the state of your marriage, this is destructive. It is great that you recognize it, it is valuable INFORMATION. Information that you can use to your advantage in Plan A.

- do not rely on her for help. She is in the fog and YOU are in charge of the marriage now. Likewise, DO NOT allow her hurtful comments affect you (yeah, easy to say, but do-able) she WILL try to justify her actions in ANY WAY possible.

I'm likely NOT the best authority here for exposure, as I haven't done a sweeping exposure yet. I HAVE exposed to a few key members of Ws family, and it has had the famous effects. That said, here's what I think...the other MB's here will have more to say:

I'm just wondering who to expose to. She told her sister herself (probably some nicely twisted version of it). Should I follow up and tell her my side of the story?


YES! Don't let WW get into a cycle of talking to people who will back up her destructive actions, what I've found is that WS's need to justify their actions, and they WILL gravitate towards people that make them feel good about the A. Talk to her sister without DJ'ing, don't insult W, etc, express the pain that this has caused you, how much you love W and value the marriage, and clearly and confidently explain what is happening. No half truths, facts, feel free to explain your worries about what you think MIGHT be happening...sister might slip and have info for you. But remember, it is a sharing of TRUTH, not an interrogation. Look around here for how to respond when W finds out, she'll be MAD!! Say nothing, no LB'ing, or check around here to see how to respond. Show NO remorse for doing this, and don't apologize.

I'm not going to expose to her father because they are not close at all and he divorced himself (and is now living with another woman)
Hmmm, not sure what to think about this...anyone else?? My understanding of exposure is that it is a sharing of truth, not necessarily just recruiting people to be on "your side". If they DO support you, then good on ya! When the truth is "out there", the awareness that people KNOW is also what ends the A, not necessarily even the influence of the people that know... sometimes people might surprise you with their reactions, try not to worry so much about the results...rather focus on your beliefs, what is right for you...

Need more help on this one!!!

I am inclined to expose to OMs parents.
PERFECT!!!!!!!!!!!!! IMHO.

so I was thinking of calling pretending to be looking for his brother. Does this sound like a good idea?
Do ANYTHING you can to smash this A, you are at war. Use any tactic you can.

I also tracked down some of OPs friends through a web guest book they are using. Should I expose there?
MB'rs? Need some help here!!

Harley says do everything short of putting it on a billboard sign. (or maybe he said put it on a billboard, i forget) Exposing to the most influential people is the priority...

Well, did the exposure thing this evening. First my side of the family, then her sister, then OMs parents, then one of our friends who attended our wedding. All accept his parents reacted very positively about my intention to save our marriage.

The call to his parents was just too strange. I talked to his father and he kept asking me why the ****** I called him. He kept saying things like "She's your wife! Keep her at home!". Like you can control your spouse like that... I've been trying to do that for years and look where it got me.

He was basically saying that "if they are really in love so be it." No support whatsoever for me wanting to save the marriage (even though I know his conservative Christian background). We didn't marry in church (my wife is not religious) and apparently to him a marriage not made in church is worth nothing.

He also said things like "I asked him to stop seeing her, he said he had broken of contact. Apparently you're wife is pursuing him." There was indeed a short period of NC after his parents communicated this, but I have proof that it was HIM who recontacted my wife. I didn't say this to him (what's the point?) but remained very calm and we actually talked quite nicely for a while after that. All calls took at least 20 minutes and I remained calm all the time (well, except when talking to my sister, but that's OK).

It's too late to make further calls, so that's it for today. I feel very calm (unlike this afternoon when I found out she had been lying to me about NC at night). Forgot to mention, she didn't come home last night "she was staying at a friend's place, no, not with OM) (yeah right).

I somehow think she will come here tomorrow while I work and get her stuff and move out to live with him without even confronting me.

I can just see the crap that's going to happen. His parents are very much against living together pre-marriage. And now they're probably going to do just that! While she's still married! This is not going to be nice for them at all.

I was wondering, would it be a good idea to leave a letter for her? Things like "I know you hate me for what I did right now, but I couldn't live with the lies anymore. I want you to know you can come home anytime. I'll be here for you, I'm willing to give you the space you need to think about what you want next. This weekend I'll stay at my sister, so you can have the house to yourself. Please don't make any rash decisions about anything now."

Whew! What a rollercoaster. Hoping for the best...

Still not sure about exposing at his work (they know my wife there too) or among his friends.

Way to go LB. Don't worry about OM's parents. It may pay off, may not. Move on to work - why not expose there?? You're in it now - go all the way.

Letter is OK. Face to face is better. Leave out "I know you hate me." That's a judgement. While it may be true it's not your place to presume to know how she feels. Start with "I want you to know..." Make it loving. Nothing about lies.

Now why are you giving her space?? Don't give her space. Space enables the affair. You're trying to choke it off, remember??

When she explodes about the exposure, simply say that her and OM's behavior are destroying your marriage and you're doing what is necessary to save it.

Can you expose to their employer? If they've been conducting an adultery on "company time," it's highly appropriate to expose there to the management and to co-workers. Additionally, can you expose to your pastor or priest...perhaps a church group leader? Does your WW belong to any professional or social organizations, clubs, or anything like that? Why just one of your friends? Why don't all of your friends know about this?

OM is single. so she can just stay with him. I'm sure that's what she did last night.

I have to go to work, so what can I even do to stop her from moving out? I could talk to my employer about this perhaps, so I can can stay home, but would that be a good idea?

Yes, I know he is at least mailing her during company time (I have some mails), and I also have proof there is gossip going on amongst the co-workers (they have been seen together).

I'm not sure about this... I'm not in the U.S.A, the morals here may have "loosened" further than in the U.S.A. and I'm just affraid I would come accross as some weirdo. The morals here tend to emphasize individual freedom...

If I decide to contact his employer, Should I go there in person to talk to the management?

My wife apparently has arranged to get some extra free time to "work on her marriage". She's working on it alright...

No pastor or priest, we're not religious, and also no organizations. They do go to the same gym.

We don't have that many joint friends, so there's only one more I could contact anyway. I'll do that.

Hi LB,

I wrote a post earlier and LOST IT!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

But I see that the other MB'rs hear were all over this...good job!

The others have said almost verbatim to what I was trying to say...pointed out the DJ in your opening statement...told you not to worry about OM's parents...PERFECT! So many good people here!

I have nothing to add right now, gotta go Plan A my butt off...I'll check tomorrow.

You're in good hands.

CJ

I have now also contacted the HR department at OMs work and asked if they had a policy about private E-mail from work. They did have one, so I proceeded to explain my situation. I also said that I have some indications that he may have been doing things during working hours (I really do have those).

She said she understood my position and was going to contact him about it.

I realized I know a female co-worker of him, but she's on vacation at the moment so I'll have to wait with that for now.

I got a "family emergency" day off today to meet WW in person. She walked in just as I was calling with the HR department, awkward!

She was speaking very slowly and controlled and asked me what I was doing. Not angry, she just said that "now I destroyed any chance we still had" and "I wanted to work out how I feel about both of you on my own". She said that she wasn't angry with me but just wondered if I lost my mind. Fog stuff, really.

Apparently OMs parents called him almost immediately after I called and they both went over to them and talked about the situation. They were wondering if I was doing OK. They obviously totally didn't understand why I had called them. Oh well, who cares. WW said it was all very pleasant and nice. Perhaps. I'm still happy I did it.

She's not planning on moving out just yet, but she feels I'm doing this to hurt her, I am stalking her, I refuse to let her go. I said that I indeed refused to let her go right now, and that if she wanted to get out she was free to file for D. I also told her I believed our M is not quite over yet and that I was willing to work on it.

At first she was just shaking her head at me and saying she didn't recognize me anymore. I just said that I felt the same about her. I saw her eyes quickly look to the side a few times when she answered some of my questions. I know it's just the fog talking, and I feel really good about not LBing at all!

Thanks to you people I knew how to handle this and stay calm even though she said horrible things.

She's not moving out just yet, she stayed here for a while to check her mail and we drank coffee and tea together. She actually laughed a couple of times about things I said, even though just an hour before she said we couldn't even do fun things together anymore because now she hated me so much. Fog!

Again, thank you people. I feel confident and strong at the moment.

LB - assume she's gonna move out soon and get ready for Plan B.

As soon as she goes, Plan B.

Until that time, do a pristine Plan A.

Be very very wary of being slammed with a restraining order if she is accusing you of stalking...

very slippery territory...
huge mis-use of the protective/justice system..

and more common than any of us want to admit...

time to step up your plan A...
time to think about inviting her to a concert..since she likes to go...

ARK

I'm not worried about a restraining order - they're not very easily gotten here in the Netherlands. Besides, I'm not stalking her at all. Only monitoring some comms when she's around the house ;-)

We both like to bike (mountain bikes) and I invited her for next week (a 4 day event during evenings) and told her I would go do it anyway and she was welcome to come along as often as she wants.

I don't think she's moving out - she can't be with him because OM doesn't want that and OMs parents would go ballistic. And she doesn't have the resources to live on her own at the moment.

She's basically forced to join my plan A for now, which I don't mind at all. I need to keep doing plan A for quite a while I think to get this one back. Consistency has always been one of the main problems in our R - consistent changes for the better that is.

OK, I also exposed to one of OMs married friends (made sure of that first!). He sounded very shocked and upset about it.

OM is going to the WC Football/Soccer this weekend with this group of friends, and I'm sure the topic will come up. Wonder how he'll like that...

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I'm not sure I would have dared do it otherwise.

The best thing is the support from my sister and her BF. She has gone through something very similar as me, but with her it ended with a D. They applauded everything about this (especially the exposure part). Oh, and she recognized my WWs reactions very well. Amazing how script-like this stuff all is.

My sis also said "Wish I had known about this when I was there.". That broke my heart, since it's not that long ago.

Great stuff, LB! Keep it up. And keep posting. Vent and air your frustrations here. Marriage is not yet strong enough to handle them...

Hi everyone.


My wife came home last night. It was very awkward, and at first she kept accusing me of having interfered with something that was already a done deal. She said they were ending their contact anyway. I just thought "fog talk"! There's just no telling what triggered the end.

One of the conversations with my sister hit home: she told me my wife was a conflict avoider. They had talked about this (because my sister had some of those tendencies as well, just not as strong), and my sister adviced my wife and gave her some books to read. It's just a shame she didn't tell me. If this was really uncovered sooner it could have stopped and perhaps none of the A stuff would have happened.

They both don't remember how long ago this was, and my guess is my taker had been satisfied for too long already for her to still think I had "good in me". A good illustration is that when I tried to convince her to find professional help she saw this as manipulation from my side. I know I have been manipulative in the past, but things are just too broken between us now for her to see that I'm really trying to do what's best for HER now instead of what's best for ME.

I now realise I have been emotionally abusing her. Period. I could get my way every time! The relationship with my wife was my first one, I never learnt how to deal with conflict PROPERLY, because I wasn't opposed properly. And with the great example from my wife, I could just take and take until she had nothing left to give and something died inside her.

She told me something snapped one day (long before the A) and that ever since she has been wondering how to get out. If only she had sought help! If only she had told me! God, I'm tearing myself up inside. She did give me indications sometimes, and after that things were doing slightly better (ups and downs) which is why she kept going for so long with me.

This again is encouraging to me, because I was starting to wonder (after introspection) what the ****** kind of person I was to treat someone like I treated my GF/wife. I now know that the normal conflict indicators do work on me and I don't have a problem to deal with it. I never have problems at work at all with it.

This morning she just seemed so sincere. She has been consistent about this story for a long time. And I recognize it all. It's crystal clear now.

Now the main problem... she feels the only way she can deal with this is to really separate from me, with a D, live on her own, get professional help, and start all over with me or someone else.

I just read the thread from InADaze and my God, it's just like she's my wife. The SAME childhood story. Parents divorced after years of fighting. My W was forced to live on her own at the age of 16 with no support from her father after her mother commited suicide. At that time her boyfriend died of cancer. Ever since then she moved from one bad relationship to another, without any time spent alone. Our R has lasted longer than any other and, during a period she stood up to me a bit more, she was so happy we even got married.

I now realize how un-equal our relationship has been, and people, I am inclined to believe her story (it just all adds up), and I'm also inclined to do it her way this time.
I have had my way almost all these years, it just feels like the right thing to do.

After this was out we connected so much all of a sudden. I could find no signs insincerity on her part, no body language that raised red flags.

I can also see the psychology in getting a D and then starting from scratch for her. She feels she has never been able to make a real choice for our relationship or the pace it has taken. When I look back I tend to agree. She wasn't ready for us to move in together but I just said I was, persisted and she gave in.

So... I am inclined to go do the D thing together, nicely, help her find a place for herself, support her, be her friend, meanwhile work on myself, date again, and start from scratch. And who knows, we might get back together. I for one know that I do love her. I can also understand that she does not love me.

When I now look at some of my "evidence" I see that it is not as clear as I thought. I do believe that the PA has ended some time ago. And now it indeed looks like they were trying to also end the EA.

She is going to see a psychologist next week. And I can only wholeheartedly applaud that.

I really want her to get happy with herself again, and after that, who knows, we may be happy together again.

I'm just so scared that she will not be strong enough while we are apart, and will fall prey to another bad guy. I just want to protect her... but I also see and understand her desperate need for a fresh start.

This is so hard... toughest thing I ever had to do. I'm crying while I'm typing this. I'm desperate for some advice. Am I doing the right thing in letting her go for now? I'm so insecure now. This morning it was crystal clear. Now things are nagging again... "Is she sincere? Isn't this just an attempt at manipulation?". The point is that manipulation is very out-of-character for my wife. I know a WW is not the same as a W.

I don't know it anymore. Maybe I should talk to a psychologist too.

Looks like W is still WW. Her idea of NC doesn't quite match mine. Now she's looking at pictures of him on a website.
To me this is contact.

Meanwhile she's planning to leave and still wants me to play along nicely. I told her that I'm willing to help her with it, if she is sincere and there is NC between her and OM. She really really wants a nice clean D and get it over with it seems. No matter what I say, she says she doesn't love me anymore and doesn't want to work on our M. Whenever I suggest that we can separate but I'd like to stay married for now, she completely locks up and says I'm trying to control her and "keep her imprisoned in a marriage she doesn't want anymore."

What do you think, would it be a good idea to go on an extended holiday? I'm not sure I will be able to control my LB-ing habits if we're together for so long and she's acting apathic... Whenever we talk I notice I tend to want to LB unless I am extremely careful. I suggested we stop the conversations about us for a while, or limit them to phone calls or letters. I just can't handle them without LB-ing.

She tells everyone that there is now NC, that it's really over between her and OM. She also tells everyone that I don't want to let her go and I am keeping her imprisoned. It looks like any attempt to prolong our marriage is seen as an LB at the moment as well. As long as I play along nicely with her plans it's fine, she's somewhat friendly and we can do things together.

I just can't help thinking that any plan A I'm now doing just doesn't affect her at all until she has regained trust in me. I have violated the "rule of protection" so she now fears to be honest with me about her feelings (can't blame her really).

As far as I see it, my plan A needs to focus on stopping LBs and showing consistency. I have also ordered "Love Busters" because I feel that's how I mostly destroyed her love.

Is the fact that she still wants to do fun things together an indication she's a cake eater? That I actually AM still meeting some ENs even though she says I don't? I know I am still giving financial support but I don't know if that's an important EN for WW. The fact that she's willing to give that up in exchange for a lousy job and a lousy new home suggests not. That should tell me just how much she wants to get out of our M...
She told me she's been planning to leave me for a long time already.

I know I have no right to expect anything from her. I hate it that it took an A to realize that I want to break the cycle of abuse. And now it just all seems too late.

Hi LB...

How are you? It really sounds like you are beating yourself up! Please don't, I was there once too...in the intial stages of Plan A...blaming myself all the way...is this how you are feeling?

I realized that I was DJ'ing myself by doing this, that I couldn't possibly by responsible for everything, y'know? Please try to remember this...you are responsible for your part...BUT NOT HERS!! She could have came to you, could've tried to work things out, (did she?) organized counseling, wrote you letters about how she felt, etc, etc

...she may have done some of these things...I don't know.

Do you want your marriage? Really important that you are focused about what you want...and respect your own views on this. She won't respect you if YOU don't respect you...just guessing here...I have my own filter on what you where saying 'cuz of what I've lived through lately. All of this sounds very familiar. If you believe in your marriage, stand up for the marriage, for BOTH of you! No wishy-washy, consistently, say:

"If you want to leave this marriage, I won't stand in your way, but I know that there are couples that have gotten through this, and made it better than ever. I'd like to learn from our mistakes, and I am looking forward to creating a wonderful relationship with you where we can both be happy, I am willing to do this for us."

She may still say you are trying to be controlling, ignore it, and leave her alone. REALLY sounds like she is in the fog esp if she is looking at pix of him on internet...my W would google search OM's name, I mean come ON! What's that gonna do? She's stuck in the fantasy, and deep in withdrawal, and blaming you for bursting the bubble! It will pass, and it will take time!

If she wants a D, let her do the heavy lifting!!! If you want your marriage, you don't encourage, discourage, help or hinder, OK? You certainly don't reinforce her blaming you by blaming yourself...saying that you understand that you have been awful, she's in withdrawal/fantasyland...she is absolutely looking for you to help her blame you. Don't help her justifications...she married you, her choice, you can't MAKE her do anything, it is up to her to own her choices too!

This is not that things on your end didn't go wrong...fix them, and stay close to her as long as you can, you can only show her your hard-earned changes while you are in contact with her.

All of this is typical...WS's want their space, so they can continue their A without YOUR interference. She WILL say you are being controlling...

So back off, keep your calm (the tough part), reinforce your boundaries, DO NOT LB, keep reading on Plan A, invite her into your life...stay the course, loving towards her and to you...it will take awhile for her to get it, it may take a while for you to get it, y'know?

I am inclined to go do the D thing together, nicely, help her find a place for herself, support her, be her friend
NO! Separate if you must, but don't D if you really want your marriage, don't ENABLE her leaving, work on Plan A, work on communication...learn to be a safe place for her and she won't have to leave, you can do this!

I tried to convince her to find professional help she saw this as manipulation from my side
I did the exact same thing! It was an LB to her, I know, but I also know I really was trying to help...try to communicate this (unless you did this out of spite...) Remember you are not her cure, only she can help herself.
After this was out we connected so much all of a sudden.
That's what communication does...feels good, eh? Communication provides a window into each other's soul...and there's many ways to do it other than by talking. Show her how you feel in every way that you can. Again if you don't want her to D, tell her, not being honest with her is DJ'ing her, assuming that she can't handle truth, DJ'ing yourself by suppressing your feelings for ONLY her own good. Try to encourage these moments while you are being respectful of yourself also...if your truth gives her pain, respect that she can work this out. Listen and repeat what she says, without judgement. If you don't agree, that's OK. You are separate and equal. Listen and repeat makes you safe for her. You can choose to say nothing else to her at a session out of respect for the marriage. Just listen and repeat.
She is going to see a psychologist next week. And I can only wholeheartedly applaud that.
Good to hear! Even better that it is HER choice! Support her, not pushy.
be her friend, meanwhile work on myself, date again, and start from scratch. And who knows, we might get back together.
Do you want to be her friend? If so, no prob, but it sounds like you want to be her husband. If so, don't date again!!! Your heart is starving for healing, realize that right now you are a walking time bomb for your own affair!
I for one know that I do love her. I can also understand that she does not love me.
Separate and equal, good. This spoke to me, if you love her, work your Plan! What is your plan?
Meanwhile she's planning to leave and still wants me to play along nicely.
OF COURSE SHE DOES!! Your in the way of this affair. Keep negotiating for NC! When she gets through withdrawal...you need to be around so that you can fill up her love bank by meeting needs. Patience, partner!
I told her that I'm willing to help her with it,
Do you want to do this? Not judging, I feel the conflict within you. Stay truthful, if you DO want to help her, and this is your choice, OK. But if not, stay honest, don't DJ yourself and W, OK? I did so many of these things, trying to please my W to stop her anger towards me. None of it worked, she just eventually said I was insecure, and she was right. I'm sorry if I'm wrong here...
would it be a good idea to go on an extended holiday?
Depends, if she is in contact or in withdrawal she may need her space (within the home, not outside). Annoying behaviors are a LB, so if your constant presence is annoying, be mindful. Focus on you, improve yourself, meet her needs when you can, and buy time, buy time, buy time! When she is through withdrawal...then you'll be able to increase contact.
my plan A needs to focus on stopping LBs and showing consistency
YES!!!
I have also ordered "Love Busters" because I feel that's how I mostly destroyed her love.
ME TOO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
That I actually AM still meeting some ENs even though she says I don't?
very possible. Note her actions, not just her words...remember her FOG! Cake-eating? quite possible...you may have to endure this for a while during Plan A
She told me she's been planning to leave me for a long time already.
I heard this too! Almost 8 months later W won't leave <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> So why is that? HAHA...keep on being, LB.

WHEW, sorry for the book...I identify with you, we have a lot in common here...I'm worried about you, I hope this helps!